1095 steel?

[Lesknife]

I have known quite a few ranchers and none of them are knife nerds. Most of the time all they use is box cutters and the old beaters they keep in the truck. Some of them have nicer knives that they take hunting, but never for day jobs around the property.

That's not to say that ranchers are never knife nerds who use the best knives available, just to say that the job gets done with much worse steel than 1095.

Yeah I’ve seen them too, and their equipment is falling apart along with the homestead, cattle look like the ones on the old cowpokes calendar.
Yes in a leisurely way 1095 will work but I’ve found it to be a lot of maintenance to keep sharp and rust free. For me it’s better to have a premium steel that does the job and less worries.
I don’t begrudge someone for liking 1095 , if that’s what works for them that’s fine.

1095 has been around a long time and it has served well in those times. But it’s not the steel to end all steels. Think about it, Flint gave way to carbon steel . Things progress and improve and that’s good!

 

[MolokaiRider]

I used Old Hickory paring knives for about 13 years to cut ear silks. Had to carry a small ceramic stone in my pocket, and touch it up a few times a day. I could usually get about two seasons out of them before they were replaced with new ones. Which were about four bucks at the time. Which is nice when your buying a couple hundred of them to issue to your crew.

Cheap and disposable. Now I issue garden shears.

Less accidents, lol.

 

[coolbreezy37]

Yes in a leisurely way 1095 will work

The type of jobs I use my Beckers for would be considered the polar opposite of “leisurely”

 

[Lesknife]

Snap off style blades are a big no no for me when you’re feeding cattle or any livestock. If that blade breaks while cutting twine and it’s lost into the hay you are likely to have a large vet bill or worse a dead animal. I’ve used one of the hook style knives and it did okay but I prefer a deep hollow ground drop point blade that I can push in and not hook. I have trouble with hook blades and hawk bills.

My dad and grandpa used a corn knife but they also carried a stone in the truck to sharpen them. Things were different then and at a slower pace. The sicile twine was on shocked feed using only one wrap at the stalk end of the bundle and they usually just pulled the tie and yanked it off the end of the shock rather than cutting the twine. Different methods for different means.

 

[G. Scott H.]

W2.

Just FYI, there are a lot of makers that do good things with 1095. Heat treated properly, it is capable of "as quenched" hardness of 65/66 Rc. There are plenty of handmade/custom 1095 working knives in the 62/63 Rc range.

There was an old thread here where someone was experimenting with 1095 up in the 60s hrc range, and from their comments it was quite impressive. 1095 is apparently quite a different animal at 63 than at 56-58, for example. Wish I could recall which thread it was.

 

[shane45-1911]

There was an old thread here where someone was experimenting with 1095 up in the 60s hrc range, and from their comments it was quite impressive. 1095 is apparently quite a different animal at 63 than at 56-58, for example. Wish I could recall which thread it was.

You are absolutely correct. What some people in this thread aren't understanding is that all 1095 is NOT created equally. Edge retention and "toughness" vary DRASTICALLY depending upon heat treatment/tempering and HRC - perhaps more so in 1095, than any other steel I have ever used and abused.

A quality heat treatment with a slightly higher than "average" hardness along with the right edge geometry for the task at hand - will perform just as well as any of the supersteel flavors of the week, albeit you may need to re-sharpen a little bit sooner. And that is easily offset by the minimal amount of time it takes to get an edge back on 1095, vs. wonder-steel.

I have the luxury of being able to grab any of my Elmax or M390 or Cruwear blades any time I am roughing it. Guess what? I don't. 1095 is my steel of choice 99 percent of the time when I am outdoors and roughing it. Corrosion has never been an issue for me either, provided I can afford to spend 30 whole seconds wiping my knife down at the end of the day.

Someone send Lesknife a QUALITY 1095 blade, please.

 

[J. Doyle]

There was an old thread here where someone was experimenting with 1095 up in the 60s hrc range, and from their comments it was quite impressive. 1095 is apparently quite a different animal at 63 than at 56-58, for example. Wish I could recall which thread it was.

I've run a few 1095 hunters and folders around 62Rc.

 

[GB940Rookie]

1095 is the best steel ever. EVER.

 

[Lesknife]

Lol we just as well tell Larrin to wrap it up and go home. All his testing an research is of no use. Some guys here have discovered that good ole 1095 beats them all.

As per the OPs question I gave my honest opinion and my experience in blade steels. I’m no expert but I’ve used knives for a good bit of time in a lot of applications.

I need to try some good 1095 ? Really ? Ya know, I grew up on 1095 and other carbon steels and they did serve the purpose well. Some better than others. It wasn’t until about 1977 till I tried some Schrade stainless and a few others and I wasn’t impressed. I’m no stranger to knife steels. My brother and I made some knifes from old files and rasps. I’ve tried some Damascus back in the 1980s and they were some of the best I’ve used. They did rust in hard use but they did get the job done. Thats mostly what I use back then and for the most part I thought that was as good as I could expect.

Then in 1989 I got a knife as a gift from a vendor. It was a Buck 301 flat ground in 425m. I was skeptical at first but I put it through the paces at work and I was surprised at how well it kept an edge and it didn’t rust or corrode and I could sharpen it easily. Up to that point I’d never used a better knife steel. I’ve still got that knife and it still cuts like crazy.
It wasn’t until around 2007 that I became aware of super steels and in 2011 I got my first knife in s30v. I’ve never had a problem sharpening knives and I learned that diamonds can make a big difference for “super steels”. I haven’t been happier with my knives since then in various steels from 420hc, cpm 154, s30v s35vn, 3v, s45vn, 20cv and so now the old carbon steels are nostalgic for me that is. Yes 1095 can still make a very useful blade including the higher hardness but it takes more maintenance and sharpening plain and simple.

 

[DangerZone98]

honestly, the best carbon steel upgrade from 1095 is 52100 - it's excellent - read about it in depth here:

Bainite Heat Treatments of 52100, O1, and 1095 - How Much Toughness? - Knife Steel Nerds

New heat treatment experiments for bainite to compare with typical quenched and tempered to see if there is an improvement in toughness.

knifesteelnerds.com

History and Properties of 52100 Steel - Knife Steel Nerds

A history of 52100, where it came from and how it has been used in knives. And all about the effect of the chromium addition on final properties.

knifesteelnerds.com

for machetes, 1075 is a great option (along with 1070) for all the low cost machete options, while 80crv2 would be the sweet spot (look at the skrama, excellent)

I wanted the 52100 cold steel drop forged knife, but my local vendor ran out of stock, hehe.

 

[shane45-1911]

Some guys here have discovered that good ole 1095 beats them all.

Indeed I have.

 

[Phydeaux]

I use a modified Ontario Field knife as a kitchen knife. It gets used every day for a myriad of tasks. I touch it up on a steel before i use it so I only use a stone on it 3 or 4 times a year. Works great for batoning through frozen hamburger chubs.

 

[bdmicarta]

I was wondering why all the Knife companies keep going back to 1095 steel there are literally 100"s of steels that are better, easier to sharpen , and better at edge retention? is it just nostalgia? or is there a technical reason for it.

Anything significantly better would also be significantly more expensive.

 

[Hrafna173]

I have the ESEE3 and it's sufficient.

Tough, easy to get sharp, and holds decent edge (edge geometry plays role here tho).

It will however rust really easily, lose it's edge even if you leave it laying around uncoated or it'll lose the edge faster if you use it for cutting citrus fruits.

Edge retention is nothing spectacular and during warmer summer day you'll either have to wipe it and oil it each time before putting it back in sheath... or you'll have t sharpen it several times a day. And since nobody walks around with bottle of oil and piece of rug... I sometimes did have to sharpen it several times in few hours...

Sandvik, AUS8 and D2 seem to be better alternatives to 1095 when it comes to EDC, but that's mostly depending on your climate

I live in the Desert, Up it about 7300 feet. I just seem to be sharpening my pocket knives more than I used them. In love my GEC knives, but the #25 I have in 440C seems to hold an edge way longer than 1095. And the knife was $30 cheaper than the 6 I have with 1095.

 

[Hashishiin]

I know In the military we considered it junk, even in the 90's in wet conditions it needs sharpening like every time you pull it out. I guess it's serviceable, enough, for like machetes, and axe heads every piece I test is like 52hrc a few have been at 54 hrc, but thats softer than even 440 A,, maybe all my Ka-bars, Esees, Tops and GEC are just bad batches, but out of over 60 knives, I agree better is subjective, but even Victorinox gets their steel to 56 HRC they claim 58, but I've never tested one that was that high, buck is pretty consistent at 58 HRC, and the steel they use is about 2/3 the price of 1095, I like the patina a 1095 knife gets, but that usually mean I gota sharpen it 6 times a day on the ranch, are there any steels that patina that way, that are harder?

Can I ask what you would pick today, then? Knowing what you know, if you were going to go back to those wet conditions where the 1095 was dulling... what would you bring if you had full choice, money no object?

 

[SALTY]

I'm not a rancher. In fact, despite my varied blue collar pedigree, I'm a S&T guy who plays on vacation and weekends. With that disclosure out of the way, I have knives that are cool to own (and enjoy them) but also have "User - Abusers" and came to find that Becker knives suit that purpose just fine. I have no financial interest in Becker Knife & Tool and there may be others that are similar but I have found those knives to suit every single one of my actual use functions perfectly. My BK5 does the Thanksgiving turkey like no other, the BK 15 or 16 or 17 will skin (and has skinned) a deer or five and the BK2 will skin a Buick. I'm not real good at the nuances of sharpening but can somehow manage to keep my Beckers "user" sharp.

I do not say this as a fanboy of Becker Knives - although I could be guilty of that, but say this as a comment on 1095 as experienced through KaBar/Becker's 1095 CroVan.

 

[The Grendels]

It's not my first steel of choice for working on a boat or dock, being on the coast. but it's otherwise a good hardworking steel. I've got no complaints about any of my 1095 steel knives from Condor, my ESEE 4HM, or my fixed blade Ka-Bar Beckers. They're just dependable knives made by good designers.

 

[sodak]

I know In the military we considered it junk, even in the 90's in wet conditions it needs sharpening like every time you pull it out. I guess it's serviceable, enough, for like machetes, and axe heads every piece I test is like 52hrc a few have been at 54 hrc, but thats softer than even 440 A,, maybe all my Ka-bars, Esees, Tops and GEC are just bad batches, but out of over 60 knives, I agree better is subjective, but even Victorinox gets their steel to 56 HRC they claim 58, but I've never tested one that was that high, buck is pretty consistent at 58 HRC, and the steel they use is about 2/3 the price of 1095, I like the patina a 1095 knife gets, but that usually mean I gota sharpen it 6 times a day on the ranch, are there any steels that patina that way, that are harder?

I wouldn't pick it for machetes and axe heads personally, I'd pick something with a lower carbon content. 1095 is ok for a cheap steel at 54 - 57 HRC, but if you can find a heat treater who will take it up to 65 - 66 HRC, you'll swear it isn't the same steel. Easily 10X the edge holding, extremely easy to sharpen. Very little burr formation.

I keep seeing "easy to sharpen" in the posts. I find soft 1095 very hard to sharpen, chasing a floppy burr from side to side is aggravating. But if you don't do it, then 1 or 2 cuts, and you have a dull knife. Harder is better for cutting, IMO.

 

[shane45-1911]

if you can find a heat treater who will take it up to 65 - 66 HRC, you'll swear it isn't the same steel. Easily 10X the edge holding, extremely easy to sharpen. Very little burr formation.

I agree. As I mentioned in a previous post, 1095 is VERY dependent upon the heat treatment for performance. While 66 HRC may be a little high IMO, certainly taking it a few points above the average mass production rating makes a huge difference in edge retention.

 

[DeadboxHero]

I agree. As I mentioned in a previous post, 1095 is VERY dependent upon the heat treatment for performance. While 66 HRC may be a little high IMO, certainly taking it a few points above the average mass production rating makes a huge difference in edge retention.

The Rockwell hardness is not going to tell you the full picture of what's going on in the microstructure of the steel which is actually the main factor for why something is performing better or worse at the same hardness.

Some of the ways some people are going to heat treat to 65-66rc with 1095 is certainly going to be a brittle pile of junk. That doesn't mean that the hardness is too high it just means that it's difficult to achieve that hardness with a good microstructure without some extra steps , knowledge and best practices with processing.