1095 vs Stainless Steel

Was the edge down flat on the table when you reprofiled it.

If so then that is about 24 degress inclusive, edge down flat at red dot.

You have to set the angle with the blade on the flat set at red dot 1st then bring the edge down flat and adjust to get 30 so it won't be at the red dot once you adjust it.

It will be closer to the green dot once it's adjusted with the edge down on the table.

I explained how to do this a few times in my videos and the EP video that came with it also explained it.
 
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Yeah its thirty when I went to touch it up onn sharpmaker at thirty its taking sharpie off whole bevel to edge
 
spydusse said:
Yeah its thirty when I went to touch it up onn sharpmaker at thirty its taking sharpie off whole bevel to edge
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Must be thicker than the one I had then, interesting. :)

The one I tested cut very well.
 
Think I have bad luck or something ..got rid of my mpr for lack of edge retention . I'm not condeming elmax at all I just put it slighlty above cpms30v . That's pretty darn good . I have manix 2 xhp on me today used it quite a bit already today and it shows no signs of wear I just love it,why I wouldn't put elmax on its level . Anyways back on topic ,you have to test some rowen. 1095 as alot of people say its there fav production 1095. I think it will go along way in helping this thread. On to lunch !
 
spydusse said:
Think I have bad luck or something ..got rid of my mpr for lack of edge retention . I'm not condeming elmax at all I just put it slighlty above cpms30v . That's pretty darn good . I have manix 2 xhp on me today used it quite a bit already today and it shows no signs of wear I just love it,why I wouldn't put elmax on its level . Anyways back on topic ,you have to test some rowen. 1095 as alot of people say its there fav production 1095. I think it will go along way in helping this thread. On to lunch !
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I don't have any 1095 blades anymore, lost them in a move along with a bunch of others years ago, a whole box disappeared.
 
I have an izula 2 wich is too small and my esee 4 has serrations. Been playing on getting a esee3mil pe in a couple weeks. When I get some more funds maybe ill ship it to yah . Would it be big enough
 
spydusse said:
I have an izula 2 wich is too small and my esee 4 has serrations. Been playing on getting a esee3mil pe in a couple weeks. When I get some more funds maybe ill ship it to yah . Would it be big enough
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If it's thin enough it might be alright, I will get around to testing something in 1095 one day I am sure, so many different steels out there to test.
 
hardheart said:
That is notched imapct testing and is used across the steel industry. It is considered practical for measuring a property of metals, there is no knife specific testing for toughness.

That's true for just about every tool, but impact testing isn't done to tools, it's done to metals. Your sledgehammer, screwdriver, prybar, etc probably don't have V, U, or C notches cut in the middle of them, but the steels they are made of were tested by someone using them.
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These are the reasons powder steels can favorably be compared to ingot steels. In the real world, truncated graphs, fine print, hearsay, biased opinions, disclaimers, and ridiculously small numbers represented by too many decimal places to make a difference don't amount to a hill of beans.

By the very nature of the beast, powder steel knives' edges are going to chip; and they will shear when laterally torqued. They're compressed powder. They may be the latest, but that doesn't make 'em the greatest. New steels can be created overnight simply by reaching into bins of elements and compounds and compressing them into a form. Producing a new powder steel costs peanuts when compared to producing a new ingot steel. Knives with new steels sell like hot cakes based on unfounded hype with practically zero real-world testing. Although consumers cannot confirm or deny published claims, they will line up to purchase what they have been told is best.

Notice how powder steel knives and ingot steel knives are not compared to each other by clamping them in a vise and bending them next to each other in side-by-side tests? Instead, laboratory-generated impact test figures are used. If powder steel knives were able to excel, do you believe figures would still be used, or would video? People believe their own eyes over published figures. Since they only have figures to go by, that's what they go by.

hardheart said:
Toughness is attributed to hardness, alloy content, environmental conditions, geometry, and heat treat method.
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I agree.

hardheart said:
Yes, but it depends on how much load you apply to it. Heck, go down to a hardware/home improvement store and flex a piece of flat bar they sell, you can do it easily before causing it to take a set. And also just note that the thicker the piece you flex, the more force you have to apply, and of course the harder it is to permanently bend. All the steel there is unhardened.
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If all variables are equal except thickness, I agree.
 
Ankerson said:
Well when you test the exact same model knife and reprofile it to a measured 30 degrees inclusive you can be a really good guesser. ;)
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Well, I can recognize excuses like that - as I sad - saw it many times before...
 
Buck_110 said:
These are the reasons powder steels can favorably be compared to ingot steels. In the real world, truncated graphs, fine print, hearsay, biased opinions, disclaimers, and ridiculously small numbers represented by too many decimal places to make a difference don't amount to a hill of beans.

By the very nature of the beast, powder steel knives' edges are going to chip; and they will shear when laterally torqued. They're compressed powder. They may be the latest, but that doesn't make 'em the greatest. New steels can be created overnight simply by reaching into bins of elements and compounds and compressing them into a form. Producing a new powder steel costs peanuts when compared to producing a new ingot steel. Knives with new steels sell like hot cakes based on unfounded hype with practically zero real-world testing. Although consumers cannot confirm or deny published claims, they will line up to purchase what they have been told is best.

Notice how powder steel knives and ingot steel knives are not compared to each other by clamping them in a vise and bending them next to each other in side-by-side tests? Instead, laboratory-generated impact test figures are used. If powder steel knives were able to excel, do you believe figures would still be used, or would video? People believe their own eyes over published figures. Since they only have figures to go by, that's what they go by.
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I don't know what to tell you. The powder metallurgy process was not created to make knife steels, it was created to make tool steels. The first PM steels were introduced to the tool and die industry decades before they appeared in a knife. These tools operate at speeds, temperatures, and pressures no human could ever subject a knife to. The PM process produces finer carbide structures with greater homogeneity. Modern steel is cleaner, more consistent, and just better. With fewer inclusions, carbide clumping and stringing, and better alloying distribution, PM steels are tougher than ingot counterparts when properly treated. They don't have a greater tendency to shear, and weaknesses along any given plane can come from the rolling process and grain direction, which is done to almost all steel products no matter how melted-PM, VIM-VAR, ESR, etc. Those charts and graphs aren't made for knife users, they are made for tool manufacturers, engineers, people in transportation and manufacturing. They are made for people to design tools and products that could cause massive tragedies if they fail due to "hype". The tests are repeatable and results are reproducible.

You can literally make your own ingot steel in your backyard, and plenty of people do. Making PM is not that simple a process. I don't think anyone has home equipment to generate up to 50 tons/sq in and 2000+ degree temps at the same time. The steel is no longer "powder" after it is HIP'd.

You don't see many flexing/bending videos because most people just don't do that with their knives. In addition, most people don't do that with their PM steels because they at least understand that's not what they were designed for. Most of the new PM steels are only possible by PM process because they are so highly alloyed. They are tough for their alloy content, but they are not as tough as 5160 or 4140. But they are orders of magnitude more wear resistant, which is their reason for being. And I've already discussed the overriding factors of geometry that are going to dominate these demos. Not many 3V swords, probably since L6 and 9260 are much much cheaper and easier to forge. Low alloy steels do not need to be PM'd, nor would they benefit from it. These steels don't have the alloying to cause the issues that PM addresses or improves.

The issue is generally that people don't use their knives in a way that makes full use of the advantages of PM steels. In an industry where the best sellers are pot metal, 420J2, underhardened nondescript carbon or alloy steels, or recycled steels, we as a whole obviously don't push steels hard enough.
 
Buck_110 said:
These are the reasons powder steels can favorably be compared to ingot steels. In the real world, truncated graphs, fine print, hearsay, biased opinions, disclaimers, and ridiculously small numbers represented by too many decimal places to make a difference don't amount to a hill of beans.

By the very nature of the beast, powder steel knives' edges are going to chip; and they will shear when laterally torqued. They're compressed powder. They may be the latest, but that doesn't make 'em the greatest. New steels can be created overnight simply by reaching into bins of elements and compounds and compressing them into a form. Producing a new powder steel costs peanuts when compared to producing a new ingot steel. Knives with new steels sell like hot cakes based on unfounded hype with practically zero real-world testing. Although consumers cannot confirm or deny published claims, they will line up to purchase what they have been told is best.

Notice how powder steel knives and ingot steel knives are not compared to each other by clamping them in a vise and bending them next to each other in side-by-side tests? Instead, laboratory-generated impact test figures are used. If powder steel knives were able to excel, do you believe figures would still be used, or would video? People believe their own eyes over published figures. Since they only have figures to go by, that's what they go by.
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Riiiiiiiight. That must be why there are so many videos of Fehrman's CPM 3V knives shattering into a million pieces under the slightest lateral strain.
 
nozh2002 said:
Well, I can recognize excuses like that - as I sad - saw it many times before...
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Dude, seriously... Assuming the new edge bevel is straight and not convex, you look at the height of it. You then look at the same model of knife that you own and measure the thickness of the blade at that height. Do a little math and that would tell you roughly what the angle is just by looking at it from the side. It's called "basic trigonometry".
 
Buck_110 said:
The harder a steel, the less tough it is. A harder steel will provide better edge retention, but sacrifice toughness.
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It would be nice if people would quit saying this as though it's true. Even the most basic heat treatment information shows this is not the case, especially at the hardness levels used for knives.
 
hardheart said:
The first PM steels were introduced to the tool and die industry decades before they appeared in a knife. These tools operate at speeds, temperatures, and pressures no human could ever subject a knife to.
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High-speed cutters, unlike knives, contact the substrate with more surface area than the edge of a knife. They distribute more load over a larger area. Many contact the substrate with the entire cutting edge at once, also. A knife edge also has less metal supporting it; due to the fact that the blade grind tapers toward the edge. A lot of pressure can be put on a very small area of a knife's edge, causing it to chip as well.

hardheart said:
The PM process produces finer carbide structures with greater homogeneity.

...they are orders of magnitude more wear resistant, which is their reason for being.
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There's no disputing this. It has become the war cry for manufacturers which use powder steels.

hardheart said:
The steel is no longer "powder" after it is HIP'd.
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Of course it's not. But, since it's compressed in non-molten form, it's not truly solid as are ingot steels. Micro-chipped edges are a constant reminder of this.

hardheart said:
You don't see many flexing/bending videos because most people just don't do that with their knives.
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For the ones brave enough to test claims of Superman-like toughness, when the knives fail well below published figures, they are blasted for their efforts.

hardheart said:
The issue is generally that people don't use their knives in a way that makes full use of the advantages of PM steels. In an industry where the best sellers are pot metal, 420J2, underhardened nondescript carbon or alloy steels, or recycled steels, we as a whole obviously don't push steels hard enough.
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I agree wholeheartedly! Most would never be able to tell which blade steel their knives are produced from if the blades weren't marked.


We're pretty much on the same page.
 
If it's not truly solid, what is it?

Any examples of these failures and figures?
 
me2 said:
It would be nice if people would quit saying this as though it's true. Even the most basic heat treatment information shows this is not the case, especially at the hardness levels used for knives.
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It is in fact true.

Can you provide a link, or elaborate on that "most basic heat treatment information" which shows this not to be the case?
 
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