11" fighting bowie in bocote

Interesting you should say that about the handle, Matt. On a user knife, I often prefer less handle shaping as well. I love seeing well sculpted handles, and I understand the thinking behind their function to increase ergonomics. But in my experience, they end up being very ergonomic for people with a certain range of hand sizes, but not ergonomic at all when your hand size doesn't match.

I've picked up many knives from great makers who did fantastic jobs on the swells on their handles, but they felt off to me because my hand isn't the same size as the hand they made the knife for. Even the Loveless style palm swells don't feel comfortable for me when the knife is too big or too small in my hand. The classic Loveless drop point feels great, but that same handle scaled to visually fit and put on a smaller blade doesn't feel right, nor scaled bigger and put on a chopper. And I know that many makers will say that if the handle is sculpted correctly it would feel ergonomic regardless of your hand size, but I've found that not to be true because I've handled their own knives while speaking with them at shows and found that though fellow collectors standing next to me found the handle comfortable, I found them to feel awkward because my hand is too small compared to theirs. Of course I don't tell them that because I wouldn't want them to misunderstand it as my critiquing their work, and their handles are obviously very ergonomic for many people.

Meanwhile, I've never had problems with a knife, no matter the size, feeling awkward in my hand when the handle is a simple oval or tear drop shape in cross section, and has a slight curve from front to end and slight taper from front to end. Kind of like a the back half of the handle of a Gransfor Bruks hatchet (if I were to provide a visual reference).
 
AWESOME looking blade Matt, and your explanation of handle shape makes sense.

That steel is supposed to be GREAT!
 
I quite like the handle. Your explanation makes it practical and from the end view with the ovoid shape it looks to be comfortable. I like how it works with the grain of the wood too. Sculpting against such prominent grain is difficult to make look good.

The above comment about handle shape and size is very important to me. I have held beautifully sculpted handles by one of the most respected makers today and they are hit and miss for me because I have large hands. I also have to think smaller when I make a knife handle and often get my wife to try them to give me a perspective from someone (me) who wears XL gloves and someone who wears Sm gloves.
It's not easy to pull off and mostly requires taming of radical shaping.
 
Plus it's certainly a lot easier to make a knife with a simplistic handle shape, so let's just stick to them. ;) :)

But seriously, a "correct" ergonomically designed handle "should" fit a variety of hand sizes comfortably and effectively. Though I doubt there's ever been a handle made that can properly fit every hand from extremely large to extremely small. For those a custom handle on a custom knife is a good choice.

A correct ergonomically designed handle is probably the most difficult element of a knife to execute or at least in my experience handling thousands of custom knives is where I find most makers struggle the most.

Matt, thanks for the additional handle photos as your initial photo (as Nick hinted) kind of make it look like a broom handle. The additional however did depict a nice handle shape which I'm sure will serve intended purpose very well.
 
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I should point out that I was just bust'n my buddy Matt's chops. It's just sort of what we do. ;) I actually have a love/hate relationship with sculpted handles---even though that's mostly all I do. I have seen some of the moves that guys do with knife fighting, and the hand hold on the knife changes SO MUCH, that I could see where a sculpted handle would be a hindrance at times. Having it easily indexed with something like an "egg shape" like Matt did here makes a lot of sense.

Matt is as overly analytical about why and what he does to a knife as I am... so I knew there was a reason behind the design. :)
 
That is a really good looking knife Matt - very clean lines and the fit and finish look terrific in the pics. I don't recall seeing a sharpened clip from you before - very nice. I bet it handles great, too. Great choice of steel, too. Looking forward to the sheath.

Roger
 
Great lookin' knife Matt. Love that handle shape for a fighter, as long as the balance is where you want it. Too much off a blade presence can make fighting knife feel slow and sluggish,...almost to the point of feeing resistance. Oval "flat" handle would be my preference since it is easier to change the grip, also it provides more leverage for the blade when you work it around the axis.
 
I like it, but more importantly YOU like it... to hell with what everyone else thinks:D
 
if I'd known the design was so specific, I wouldn'a said anything. I know what I like in a knife for my uses, which do not include concealed carry when it comes to a 10" blade! That's just not how I roll so I don't think that way, but it makes perfect sense the way you laid it out Matt.
I still like more contour and less guard, and it's a rare knife which has neither of those things that snatches my interest.
 
Nice work Matt. Your decision to construct and shape the knife as you did was well thought out. That is fundamental to creating fine implements.
I know the work you put into that blade, because I have been playing with some cruforge too. I am using 3M sticky paper that comes on a 2-1/2 inch wide roll. I don't know what kind of sand is on it, but it works pretty good for me. Bill wiggins told me that if you slow your belt down to about half speed when you get down to the finer belts it helps a lot.

I have read a lot about fighting bowies lately, and it seems that there is much controversy as to what they should be, and if there is any need for them at all. I just had a conversation with Matt Lamey about it, and this point was raised: I carry a concealed handgun almost daily. It's primary purpose is to stop a crime of violence against myself or another person in my presence. I hope that I never have to use it, and statistically, its pretty likely that I never will. But the fact remains that if I need it, I have it, and I know how to use it. Furthermore, It is not a cheap one that might work in a pinch, It is a $1200. Kimber that is famous for it's reliability and ease of carry. I practice with it, and know it to be faithfull. The same exact argument may be used for the "fighting Bowie" or whatever" fighting knife that may be carried. I don't personally carry a fighting bowie, but I certainly don't think it is silly to do so, and if I did, I would want it to be a good one that was designed to not leave me wondering if it would work when I needed it. I would also be very concerned about how and where it was carried, which leads me to believe that a good sheath and carry rig is just as important as the knife itself. I really appreciate the thought and study that people like Joe Paranee have put into the subject. I don't see any reason that a person would not be able to become intimately familiar with a Bowie and use it as an effective weapon. So, with guns, some people are good with revolvers, some are good with autos. The knife you carry, if you carry one, should reflect the intended purpose of it, and be second nature for you to use. The rest is just personal preferences. Thank God for custom knives! We can all have what we want!

Adam-
 
DesRosiers said:
Nice work Matt. Your decision to construct and shape the knife as you did was well thought out. That is fundamental to creating fine implements.
I know the work you put into that blade, because I have been playing with some cruforge too. I am using 3M sticky paper that comes on a 2-1/2 inch wide roll. I don't know what kind of sand is on it, but it works pretty good for me. Bill wiggins told me that if you slow your belt down to about half speed when you get down to the finer belts it helps a lot.

I have read a lot about fighting bowies lately, and it seems that there is much controversy as to what they should be, and if there is any need for them at all. I just had a conversation with Matt Lamey about it, and this point was raised: I carry a concealed handgun almost daily. It's primary purpose is to stop a crime of violence against myself or another person in my presence. I hope that I never have to use it, and statistically, its pretty likely that I never will. But the fact remains that if I need it, I have it, and I know how to use it. Furthermore, It is not a cheap one that might work in a pinch, It is a $1200. Kimber that is famous for it's reliability and ease of carry. I practice with it, and know it to be faithfull. The same exact argument may be used for the "fighting Bowie" or whatever" fighting knife that may be carried. I don't personally carry a fighting bowie, but I certainly don't think it is silly to do so, and if I did, I would want it to be a good one that was designed to not leave me wondering if it would work when I needed it. I would also be very concerned about how and where it was carried, which leads me to believe that a good sheath and carry rig is just as important as the knife itself. I really appreciate the thought and study that people like Joe Paranee have put into the subject. I don't see any reason that a person would not be able to become intimately familiar with a Bowie and use it as an effective weapon. So, with guns, some people are good with revolvers, some are good with autos. The knife you carry, if you carry one, should reflect the intended purpose of it, and be second nature for you to use. The rest is just personal preferences. Thank God for custom knives! We can all have what we want!

Adam-
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Good post Adam and even though I'm a "Fighter Bowie" collector I suggest sticking with your concealed handgun. As much as I love a fine fighter, having a 10" blade on your belt, even though it offers a feeling of security, in these times is more apt to give some wacko what little excuse they need to blow your brains out.

I have been robbed twice at gun point. Once when I was 16 working as a cashier at an A&P grocery store on Williamsburg road in Richmond Va and again about 12 years latter working in my Auto Parts store in the same area only a few miles further down the road. The first time I was of course unarmed, and I can't even tell you how terrifying it is to have your life in the hands of someone who is 6-7 feet away with a handgun and in a wild and panicked state. The second time I had a 357 Ruger within arm's reach under the counter and it was almost as terrifying considering my options over the several minutes which seemed liked forever. Thank god, both times the dirtbags left after our turning over the money.

I'm convinced that if I would have had a large bowie on my belt the junkies would have most likely killed me just to avoid any potential for hassle if I would have pulled on them.
As no fighter bowie is going to stop a bullet, my point is that if you are going into harms way and are taking the precaution and making the effort to carry a concealed weapon, why not make it the most effective possible. Or in other words, the saying “don’t take a knife to a gun fight” makes a lot of sense.
 
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These are all excellent points! I completely agree with both of you (Kevin and Adam). There's one sticky wicket when it comes to the carry options available to me...

New York State carry laws.

There are two locations in New York that are absurdly restrictive with their carry laws: New York City, of course, and the County of Erie - where I live. If you apply for a pistol permit in Erie County, you will likely be granted a Hunting & Target carry permit. This grants you the right to have a pistol unconcealed in your possession to and from a gun range or hunt. That's it. Unrestricted carry permits will be issued by one of the judges if you can provide proof that a major deity is your cousin, you have a note from this deity in triplicate, the judge likes you and thinks your sister is cute, and both the Pope and the Dalai Lama sign off saying you're a swell guy and they think you ought to have a pistol.
Most of the folks that I know with unrestricted carry permits had them before the law changes made in the late 80's, OR they don't in point of fact have unrestricted carry permits, and are concealing a firearm in civil disobedience.

Here's the letter of the law regarding knives:
S 265.00 Definitions.
As used in this article and in article four hundred, the following
terms shall mean and include:

4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife which has a blade which opens
automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other
device in the handle of the knife.
5. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released
from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the
application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device.


S 265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree.
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth
degree when:
(1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun
gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal
knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles,
chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or
slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto,
imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another;

***
Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A misdemeanor.

When I discussed this with legal counsel, they were quick to point out that ...or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another is critical, as self defense specifically is NOT intent to commit an unlawful act.

The laws in New York City are different from this, so I can't talk about there.

...so I can get a pistol in my area, but I can't carry it legally. Nor can I carry an automatic knife with a 2" blade, or a wrist rocket, or a sap. I can, however, carry a 10" fighting bowie with a boring, shapeless, straight handle and be within my legal rights. Go figure!

...anyone that knows me understands that my skills at slingshottery are pro, and if I were allowed to carry a wrist rocket, crime in my area would drop to zilch, but a law is a law.:D

I would like to caution anyone reading this thread to make sure they do their OWN homework regarding this. Translation of the law is just as critical as knowing the letter of the law. If you're considering a choice in your life that can hold such monumental responsibility as the topic at hand, you're a total dumbass for basing such a decision on the posts of some bozo on the interwebz! Do NOT take my word for any of this!!!!!!
 
Not to Hi Jack my friends thread but this is my thoughts on it

I live in a carry friendly state and I am a licensed concealed carry permit holder

I am surrounded by will not issue can not carry states. In fact when I have a pistol on I have to remove pistol unload lock pistol in bag and then lock bullets in glove compartment or other area. God forbid I have hollow points. Pretty much goes for NY , Maryland, Delaware. If I would use a handgun in self defense while I am illegally carrying it I would face severe problems.

Now you are all saying that the same thing would hiappen with a Bowie you are not allowed to carry them. Well the way I carry a bowie when I get in a car I slaide it out of ny belt and lay it on the seat where it becomes a collector piece or a camp tool and thought I am likely to be questioned on it I will not immediately be breaking the law like if I have a loaded gun on my presence.

When Iget out of the car I slide my knife in my belt and go . At this time I am breaking the law unless it is hunting season and it is displayed openly . I am a 42 year old business man who owns or at one time owned Liquor stores ,Gas Stations Convience store's etc all in the lovely Garden State:D All great targets to rob . I have had guns put to my head and knives put to my throat so you can understand my desire to protect myself and family. Alot of crimes in this area are done with knives due to the strict gun laws. In that case I would rather have a sword than a knife but ya really can't hide one of them can ya. Of course I would rather have a gun than a knife but I do not feel naked with a Bowie and within 6 to 10 feet I have been able to skin a Bowie and engage a Swat cop that is also a competition shooter before he can get his gun into play in training situations. He is way above the curve and your average criminal is not as nearly well trained as him. I have shown alot of police how dangerous a man with a proper knife can be and I hope this helps them in there being aware what is out there. Again I am not a kid with my Bowie knife strapped on out drinking looking for a fight . I do not get searched by police because I am not out doing things to warrant a search of my person.


So again I would rather have a gun but if I cant I will take a bowie and do my best....... Like Billy Bagwell once said to me it's better than scratching them to death D

In training situations I have found the Bowie to be superior to small folders to the point of my daughter fending me off and even base ball bats due to the factor of people over swinging a bat and leaveing themselves open

Hope I dont come off like a militant weirdo but luck favors the prepared and with 3 daughters to protect I ain't playing
 
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My first line of defense it to start crying.

...and I'm not talking about 'little girl we're out of ice cream' crying, I mean full-on hardcore, end of the movie "Shane" CRYING.

Then I throw my arms in the air muppet-style and run shrieking from the scene, leaving any dignity I possess as well as any money I have with my assailant. Who knows, after I give him my knife he'll think it's nice and end up buying one from me, assuming he can get over the plain handle... :D

(It's so much more fun when these threads are fun!!)

Thanks for all the input, gang. Except for Lorien and Nick, who are both just jerks.:D:D I'm kidding!!! They're my bro's!
 
That is beautiful. Nothing to say other than that, but how exactly did you sand the clip down?
Thanks
 
heheheq said:
That is beautiful. Nothing to say other than that, but how exactly did you sand the clip down?
Thanks
Click to expand...

I set an angle on my flat platen and carefully grind to the centerline, then hand sand with a steel sanding stick so it doesn't wash the crisp lines out.
 
Matthew Gregory said:
My first line of defense it to start crying.
...and I'm not talking about 'little girl we're out of ice cream' crying, I mean full-on hardcore, end of the movie "Shane" CRYING.
Then I throw my arms in the air muppet-style and run shrieking from the scene, leaving any dignity I possess as well as any money I have with my assailant. :D
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That’s hilarious Matt. :D :D
But seriously, I don’t believe anyone really knows how they will react towards having a gun pointed at them or being attacked until they are put into that position. From the one time I met you and reading your views and opinions over the years I feel sure you would keep your cool and do whatever necessary to insure the best outcome for you and those around you.

JParanee said:
I do not feel naked with a Bowie and within 6 to 10 feet I have been able to skin a Bowie and engage a Swat cop that is also a competition shooter before he can get his gun into play in training situations. He is way above the curve and your average criminal is not as nearly well trained as him.
Click to expand...

That’s certainly impressive my friend and your being that agile doesn’t surprise me a bit. However, when being robbed or attacked one doesn’t often have the luxury of pulling a defense weapon until your attacker is upon you with firearm ready to discharge. At least that’s the way it was both times I was robbed at gunpoint.

While being robbed my second time, I figured I had one chance in five of pulling the revolver (without a round in the leading chamber :() from underneath the counter with a favorably outcome for myself and my employees even though it was un-holstered and at arms length. This was a chance I was only willing to take as a last resort. Thank god I didn’t have to, but it certainly felt better knowing I had the option if the situation had deteriorated to that point.
 
many people lose their fine motor skills and their senses narrow too acutely for them to be of much use when faced with imminent death. With that in mind, perhaps a large knife is a simpler weapon to operate than a gun, in that all you need to do with it is hold it and swing it around. A person's success in that type of situation is impossible to predict until the situation is faced, and often success has more to do with acquiescence than physical superiority, unless serious training is involved. But even that is no guarantee of success.
A friend of mine recommended this; http://www.killology.com/book_oncombat_summary.htm to me. He is involved in stuff, and spoke highly of this book. I'm thinking I might get a copy and give it a read, seems interesting.
 
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