12c27... why not more love?

rustyrazor said:
[...] More important it's easy to sharpen in the field, which i think is sooo much more important than having a steel that will hold an edge twice as long, but the normal user can't touch up him/herself. [...]
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I have knives in 12C27, and it works fine.

However, this above sentence is often repeated, and false. I have knives that will hold an edge not twice as long, but 20 times longer, and are EASIER to touch up and sharpen then 12C27. That's why I choose them.
 
sodak said:
I have knives in 12C27, and it works fine.

However, this above sentence is often repeated, and false. I have knives that will hold an edge not twice as long, but 20 times longer, and are EASIER to touch up and sharpen then 12C27. That's why I choose them.
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I've never used 12C27; what are the knives that hold an edge 20x longer?
 
flarp beat me to it, but here's what I picked up from Mike Stewart:

12C27 is fine grained. It has much smaller carbides than any of the 440's. The carbides are also much more evenly dispersed. 12C27 could be referred to as the A-2 of the stainless steels. It is stronger and tougher than the large carbide stainless steels and it rolls instead of chips if over stressed -- just like A-2. It can be tempered into the 58-58.5 rc range without becoming brittle. It can hold an edge like a carbon steel while still being easy to sharpen. It has good corrosion resistance.
 
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sodak said:
I have knives in 12C27, and it works fine.

However, this above sentence is often repeated, and false. I have knives that will hold an edge not twice as long, but 20 times longer, and are EASIER to touch up and sharpen then 12C27. That's why I choose them.
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This nailed it for me. I have a little (4", fits in my shirt pocket) Browning diamond steel that I carry in the field, and just a few passes with it on my S90V or S110V high carbide blades will have them very sharp again in about 3 minutes, but they will skin and clean 4 large whitetails without needing a sharpening, so what the heck???
 
Big Mora fan, prefer the carbon steel models, but if I need stainless due to the conditions its going to be used in thats the steel I go to. The Mora fillet knife is in that steel and its excellent.
 
12C27 is a good steel and I like it. It is easy to sharpen and holds an edge okay. It is similar to other steels like 440A and 420HC but is purportedly more pure and has finer grain structures. This is probably true as my knives in this steel perform a little better, not much, than the others. Mora and other such companies use this steel in most of their knives.
I truly love the 14C28N Sandvic puts out. I would like to see more of this steel in use by other companies besides Kershaw (nothing wrong with Kershaw).
 
DocT said:
12C27 is a good steel and I like it. It is easy to sharpen and holds an edge okay. It is similar to other steels like 440A and 420HC but is purportedly more pure and has finer grain structures. This is probably true as my knives in this steel perform a little better, not much, than the others. Mora and other such companies use this steel in most of their knives.
I truly love the 14C28N Sandvic puts out. I would like to see more of this steel in use by other companies besides Kershaw (nothing wrong with Kershaw).
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Southern grind uses 14c28n on their Bad Monkey folders. Haven't seen a bad review yet on these blades.
 
Sonnydaze said:
...unless you follow the path cleared by Ernie...
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I own several Emersons, and love them. I have no problem with 154cm, it's one of my favorites, a good, tough steel that takes a great edge, and holds it well. However, the use of this steel is one of the constant criticisms I see leveled at Emerson. Ernie has his reasons for using the steel that he does, and an "upgrade" is not necessary IMO.

I think these criticisms just support my opinion of trendy fashion steels.
 
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craytab said:
Okay but this flies in the face of the fact that a ton of the most popular hard use woods fixed blades use 1095 or another relatively old school high carbon or tool steel.

I liked Sandvick okay in the Skyline I had. I sure would like to see more sandvick steels in replace of 8cr. I'd pay a little more for it.
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I agree. I was only referring to the folder market in my comment, wasn't really thinking about woods fixed blades, even though I own several with 1095 or A2, and love them.
 
sodak said:
I have knives in 12C27, and it works fine.

However, this above sentence is often repeated, and false. I have knives that will hold an edge not twice as long, but 20 times longer, and are EASIER to touch up and sharpen then 12C27. That's why I choose them.
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They'll hold a razor sharp edge 20 times longer?
 
sodak said:
I have knives in 12C27, and it works fine.

However, this above sentence is often repeated, and false. I have knives that will hold an edge not twice as long, but 20 times longer, and are EASIER to touch up and sharpen then 12C27. That's why I choose them.
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I'm not even going to argue that 20x longer is part of the equation... or that they are easier to resharpen. I don't know... I haven't used every stainless steel in the world to be able to dispute that fact. My point being, for a hard use blade for real world use, I think it's hard to beat. will any of those "20x longer" blades keep up with it in toughness? and if they could hold a candle how much more do you have to pay for one by comparison?
 
Brew-Jitsu said:
I've never used 12C27; what are the knives that hold an edge 20x longer?
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See below.

ebidis said:
And easier to sharpen?

These must be incredible knives. Where can I get one?
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Yes, they are incredible. See below.

rustyrazor said:
I'm not even going to argue that 20x longer is part of the equation... or that they are easier to resharpen. I don't know... I haven't used every stainless steel in the world to be able to dispute that fact. My point being, for a hard use blade for real world use, I think it's hard to beat. will any of those "20x longer" blades keep up with it in toughness? and if they could hold a candle how much more do you have to pay for one by comparison?
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http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope

In answer to your questions, go to the first post, coarse edge testing. See the Coyote Meadow in CPM 10V at 64.5 HRC? That's my knife. Then go down to the second from the bottom. Compare the numbers yourself. As for the cost, it was much less than 20x the cost, but that's as specific as I'll get out of consideration for the maker, Phil Wilson.

Yes, I can go from full dull (draw the knife across my wrist) to full sharp in 3-5 minutes easily. This myth of modern steels being hard to sharpen is utter BS. They almost never develop a large burr, if they are properly hardened, and sharpen up much quicker than "traditional" steels.

I have nothing against 12C27, and enjoy it in my Mora 2000. But it is not easier to sharpen than my Coyote Meadow. As for the toughness, I don't care, these are both for cutting.
 
sodak said:
...As for the toughness, I don't care, these are both for cutting.
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This is a good point, I often here people tout 12C27 as a "tough" steel but see no "choppers" made from the stuff other than maybe a few stainless Condor machetes from 420HC that I've never tried so cannot comment on the edge-durability. Anyone have a 420HC or 12C27 chopper they'd like to share about?
 
ebidis said:
Southern grind uses 14c28n on their Bad Monkey folders. Haven't seen a bad review yet on these blades.
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I have never seen any American company push Sandvik 14c28n like Kershaw. I own four knives with 14c28n blades and have been very happy with three out of the four knives. It is quickly becoming my favorite budget steel. I know that both 12c and 14c steel are both made by the same company. Anyone know the difference between the two?


BTW, ebidis, you should see the wonderfull edge on the Griptillian that I recieved in the mail today. The guy did a great job on the edge. Nice knife,too.


Thanks for the knife, Jerry
 
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chiral.grolim said:
This is a good point, I often here people tout 12C27 as a "tough" steel but see no "choppers" made from the stuff other than maybe a few stainless Condor machetes from 420HC that I've never tried so cannot comment on the edge-durability. Anyone have a 420HC or 12C27 chopper they'd like to share about?
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BRU19902.jpg


I haven't tried this knife, but it's the only 12C27 chopper I was able to find.
 
Why not more love?....simple

People are use to 12C27 that is hardened too soft. 12C27/14C28N/13C26 can all go above HRC of 60. One local South African maker gets consistent results of 61 with 12C27 after temper and 14C28N at around 62. In my experience these steels really perform well at higher HRC with little to no drawbacks.

There is similar steels with similar properties, INFI comes to mind. Little to no-one complains about INFI but once they hear 12C27 the mind goes to experience with cheap knives.

Nitrobe-77 is a very modern steel, very pure, powdered metallurgical steel, can achieve HRC of 63, highly corrosion resistant but does not get the fame it deserves because it is not marketed (nor developed) as "wear resistant". Yet it is one of the very few steels developed as a blade steel for the food industry.

In my experience, steels like 12C27/14C28N/INFI/Nitrobe 77 etc correctly heat treated gives the user far more options with regards to catering the edge to his or her intended uses than anything else.

These steels have their place in the market for certain users as does the higher carbide content steels. Understanding a steels properties and limitations is important in making a steel choice.

Here is a custom in 14C28N doing cardboard cuts. 600 grit diamond finish on the edge at +- 12 degrees inclusive. Did +- 410 cuts and still able to cut newsprint paper, cross grain with some effort, cleanly cut newsprint with the grain.

Not bad IMO.

[video=youtube;FSqzg3T2Kx8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSqzg3T2Kx8[/video]

Here is some informal testing on Nitrobe-77.

[video=youtube;8UQ2oRRYK_s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UQ2oRRYK_s[/video]

[video=youtube;GCITlARJvcY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCITlARJvcY[/video]
 
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