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rob32 said:
I have found that some of the clones out there are excellent knives, better than many midtechs and even some customs I have held. My legit Spyderco Military for example has slight bladeplay and an off-center blade when closed. By comparison, the clone I was given ages ago came perfect. Now, considering the manufacturing standards at CRK, I don't expect a clone to come close to their quality of an actual Sebenza, but the price doesn't come close either. If the clones are using S35VN steel, that kinda kills the whole mystery steel argument many people make about these clone knives.

You say there aren't many fans of these knives around here, but the fact that so many clones are out there seems to go against your theory. Someone is buying them, many someones, actually. I bet plenty of people here are among them, they just aren't speaking up.

IMO, there is a place for these things on the market. Not everyone wants to spend 400+ on a real Sebenza, and not everyone can afford to either. If someone wants to take a chance on a decent clone for a fraction of the price, I say let em go ahead. It's not like CRK is struggling here. I have two Sebenzas myself.
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It's not that they are bad knives, it is that they misrepresent themselves and cost honest hard working people money. Regardless if they can afford to lose it or not it is still wrong. By knowingly purchasing fakes you are creating a market for them and complicit in their criminal activity.

To have the balls to come on here and think you have some kind of moral footing blows me away.
 
Nebuchadnezzar said:
It's not that they are bad knives, it is that they misrepresent themselves and cost honest hard working people money. Regardless if they can afford to lose it or not it is still wrong. By knowingly purchasing fakes you are creating a market for them and complicit in their criminal activity.

To have the balls to come on here and think you have some kind of moral footing blows me away.
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Please, if you can, tell me exactly how much money a company like CRK loses when someone buys a clone CRK knife like the one being talked about in this thread.
 
rob32 said:
Please, if you can, tell me exactly how much money a company like CRK loses when someone buys a clone CRK knife like the one being talked about in this thread.
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Off the top of my head, they effectively lose a sale. So we can start with whatever their profit margin is for the sale of one knife. You can add to that the cost of defending their brand so as to maintain any copyrights or brand value.

You said yourself "It's not like CRK is struggling here." So you acknowledge there is a loss. It doesn't matter if it a a tenth of a cent or a thousand dollars the principal is the same.

The fact you need a stranger on the internet to explain these very simple moral values to you speaks volumes for your lack of character.

 
I disagree with the notion that a $410 CRK Sebenza is a direct competitor to it's $65 clone. I seriously doubt clone buyers are sitting around looking at both knives equally, and deciding the buy the clone. Like a Sebenza, but can't afford one, try the clone. like a Sebenza but think they are overpriced and would never buy one, get the clone. Then you have a few people like me who were gifted some clone knives, and those knives made me genuinely interested in buying authentic knives. Cheap clones, and the authentic knives they copy, just are not really competing. If they are, then perhaps people should be looking at why their precious knives that cost in the hundreds or thousands can be made so well for a fraction of the cost. I think that is part of the reason why many people get so upset, they don't want to think about why their knives cost as much as they do, when some Chinese clones are almost as good. Any decent company will not face real competition from cheap Chinese clones.

I am not here to argue the morality of buying clones. Personally, I don't care what someone does with their money. I think many people enjoy sitting on their high horse here when it comes to this topic.
 
BSTKnives said:
I'd rather a real piece of broken glass to a fake CRK.
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Amazing as it seems, its still hard to become accustomed to the level of intelligence required to post here. Which is apparently nil. I thought we had a Test in place. LOL
 
rob32 said:
I disagree with the notion that a $410 CRK Sebenza is a direct competitor to it's $65 clone. I seriously doubt clone buyers are sitting around looking at both knives equally, and deciding the buy the clone. Like a Sebenza, but can't afford one, try the clone. like a Sebenza but think they are overpriced and would never buy one, get the clone. Then you have a few people like me who were gifted some clone knives, and those knives made me genuinely interested in buying authentic knives. Cheap clones, and the authentic knives they copy, just are not really competing. If they are, then perhaps people should be looking at why their precious knives that cost in the hundreds or thousands can be made so well for a fraction of the cost. I think that is part of the reason why many people get so upset, they don't want to think about why their knives cost as much as they do, when some Chinese clones are almost as good. Any decent company will not face real competition from cheap Chinese clones.

I am not here to argue the morality of buying clones. Personally, I don't care what someone does with their money. I think many people enjoy sitting on their high horse here when it comes to this topic.
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Double high horse on that.....loll
 
rob32 said:
I disagree with the notion that a $410 CRK Sebenza is a direct competitor to it's $65 clone. I seriously doubt clone buyers are sitting around looking at both knives equally, and deciding the buy the clone. Like a Sebenza, but can't afford one, try the clone. like a Sebenza but think they are overpriced and would never buy one, get the clone. Then you have a few people like me who were gifted some clone knives, and those knives made me genuinely interested in buying authentic knives. Cheap clones, and the authentic knives they copy, just are not really competing. If they are, then perhaps people should be looking at why their precious knives that cost in the hundreds or thousands can be made so well for a fraction of the cost. I think that is part of the reason why many people get so upset, they don't want to think about why their knives cost as much as they do, when some Chinese clones are almost as good. Any decent company will not face real competition from cheap Chinese clones.

I am not here to argue the morality of buying clones. Personally, I don't care what someone does with their money. I think many people enjoy sitting on their high horse here when it comes to this topic.
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They are trading on a stolen design and brand recognition none the less.

Insulting the buyers and makers of higher end goods reeks of jealousy and makes you seem like a petulant child.

Yet you have been making attempts at moral arguments justifying clones.

A roach could argue with you from a position or moral superiority.
 
I am not insulting the buyers of higher end goods, I am a buyer of higher end goods myself. I am not, however, upset when one purchases a clone. I have 2 Sebenzas, as well as various mid-techs and customs. I am not opposed to spending money when I feel the product is deserving of purchase. I also think that many so-called higher end knives aren't worth their asking price, and are of poor quality. Like I said, if a high end knife company finds themselves actually competing with their Chinese clone counterparts, then their product probably is not worth the asking price. I seriously doubt CRK is losing anything over these clones being made.
 
I don't know much about these expensive knives but I was thinking the only reason to buy a fake one is that you don't have money for the real thing. If you can't afford the real thing, then how can the real company lose a sale if you couldn't buy it anyway?
 
AustoLebiesto said:
I don't know much about these expensive knives but I was thinking the only reason to buy a fake one is that you don't have money for the real thing. If you can't afford the real thing, then how can the real company lose a sale if you couldn't buy it anyway?
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Precisely So freaking obvious. Jesus!!
 
AustoLebiesto said:
I don't know much about these expensive knives but I was thinking the only reason to buy a fake one is that you don't have money for the real thing. If you can't afford the real thing, then how can the real company lose a sale if you couldn't buy it anyway?
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One can ask the question, why not save your money and buy the real thing?
 
Did anybody ever think that maybe, just maybe, we have a situation here like the Microtech employee that was making knives from spare parts and selling them? With such a high standard for QC CRK likely throws out a fair amount of parts. Is it completely impossible to think that somebody could he snagging up those flawed parts and making knives of them?
 
I doubt this is the case. It's easy enough for a Chinese manufacturer to produce a bunch of CRK clones. It's not like the Sebenza is a particularly complicated knife, and it is not made from exotic materials. I have heard the quality of the CRK clones are hit or miss though.
 
If the design isn't a registered/patented/copyrighted design then it's not "STEALING" the design. By the very legal definition. If you've not made a legal claim to a design then you do NOT own it.

At the same time....don't pass someone else's design off as your own...

And while I don't have as much of a problem with Clones (knives using the same design/features as famous knives/brands)

I do have a problem with FAKES. (Knives made by another company that uses the original company's name.

Anyone producing fake knives is committing fraud, simple as that. It's a con. You're trying to cash in on someone else's name.

Clones are not a direct competitor for the original because everyone can see that they're not the original. (They don't have the logo's, branding etc)

Fakes ARE a direct competitor. As gullible buyers can think they've produced the real thing. This gets passed off into the secondairy market and can hurt the good name of a company.


While I can understand someone defending clones.

Defending Fakes is the exact same as defending fraud.
 
LX_Emergency said:
If the design isn't a registered/patented/copyrighted design then it's not "STEALING" the design. By the very legal definition. If you've not made a legal claim to a design then you do NOT own it.

At the same time....don't pass someone else's design off as your own...

And while I don't have as much of a problem with Clones (knives using the same design/features as famous knives/brands)

I do have a problem with FAKES. (Knives made by another company that uses the original company's name.

Anyone producing fake knives is committing fraud, simple as that. It's a con. You're trying to cash in on someone else's name.

Clones are not a direct competitor for the original because everyone can see that they're not the original. (They don't have the logo's, branding etc)

Fakes ARE a direct competitor. As gullible buyers can think they've produced the real thing. This gets passed off into the secondairy market and can hurt the good name of a company.


While I can understand someone defending clones.

Defending Fakes is the exact same as defending fraud.
Click to expand...
I agree with this logical observation.
 
LX_Emergency said:
If the design isn't a registered/patented/copyrighted design then it's not "STEALING" the design. By the very legal definition. If you've not made a legal claim to a design then you do NOT own it.

At the same time....don't pass someone else's design off as your own...

And while I don't have as much of a problem with Clones (knives using the same design/features as famous knives/brands)

I do have a problem with FAKES. (Knives made by another company that uses the original company's name.

Anyone producing fake knives is committing fraud, simple as that. It's a con. You're trying to cash in on someone else's name.

Clones are not a direct competitor for the original because everyone can see that they're not the original. (They don't have the logo's, branding etc)

Fakes ARE a direct competitor. As gullible buyers can think they've produced the real thing. This gets passed off into the secondairy market and can hurt the good name of a company.


While I can understand someone defending clones.

Defending Fakes is the exact same as defending fraud.
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Off topic, but this guy makes really nice knives.
Also this thread has been repeated way to many times, where is my dead horse imogee?
Russ
 
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