2 is 1... 1 is none

If I carry more than one means of fire starting when in a wilderness or survival situation then does that make me paranoid? What about backing up a fixed blade with a folder in my pocket? Until now I thought I was well prepared, now I find out that I am paranoid - damn!
 
If I carry more than one means of fire starting when in a wilderness or survival situation then does that make me paranoid? What about backing up a fixed blade with a folder in my pocket? Until now I thought I was well prepared, now I find out that I am paranoid - damn!

I bet you carry multiple tinfoil hats too, don't ya? Nutjob :rolleyes:
 
Reasonable people can disagree about what constitutes redundancy, where to draw the line between preparedness and paranoia, and so on. There's no need to get heated about it.

Most of us plan a degree of redundancy into our wilderness preparations, in terms of gear and in terms of skills. One rarely sees a PSK or woods kit with only one cutting edge or a single means of fire-starting, for example.

In terms of where to draw the line, I think that everyone is different, and that planning needs to take into account skills, knowledge of the area in which one is travelling, and what one considers to be the threshold between packing responsibly and carrying too much gear. Your mileage may vary.

For me, I like to think about redundancy in terms of tasks, as opposed to gear. This means having more than one way to make fire, cut wood, build a shelter, light the way, handle an injury, navigate, and so on. In some cases, this translates into carrying backup gear (a PSK and a diversified fire kit, for example). In other cases, I'm content to keep my gear to a minimum.

As for mindsets, again, to each his own. For me, the wilderness is a place to be enjoyed and respected, and while I take steps to be what I would call reasonably prepared, I do not view every excursion as a potential SHTF situation. Nor am I particularly concerned about self defence and protection when I'm in the bush. If that's your thing, then bully for you.

All the best,

- Mike
 
Reasonable people can disagree about what constitutes redundancy, where to draw the line between preparedness and paranoia, and so on. There's no need to get heated about it.

Of course! Reasonable people can disagree about anything.

The "heat" comes from personal insult levied by people that think they, too, are being reasonable when in fact they are being rather condescending.

Most of us plan a degree of redundancy into our wilderness preparations, in terms of gear and in terms of skills. One rarely sees a PSK or woods kit with only one cutting edge or a single means of fire-starting, for example.

I have read in years past, not necessarily here in this forum, but in other places, incredibly passionate disagreements from people who were convinced they were being reasonable people, against carrying more than a pocketknife. If you disagreed with their point of view, you were being "unreasonable."

Likewise, the person carrying a matchsafe, a Spark-Lite and a DOAN Magnesium Block with the Ferrocerium Rod on the side were "carrying too much stuff" and "weighing themselves down with stuff."

As for mindsets, again, to each his own. For me, the wilderness is a place to be enjoyed and respected, and while I take steps to be what I would call reasonably prepared, I do not view every excursion as a potential SHTF situation.

I agree. Would it be "unreasonable" to carry, say, a messenger bag with one of the heavier forms of Space Blanket in it, sometimes referred to as a "casualty blanket" in our military's ever expanding lexicon, and a couple other things in case you were to fall and break your leg, for example? Just out for a lunchtime hike and you have an accident that could, contrary to many a man's imagined prowess and Superman status as an outdoorsman, happen to anyone.

But you have to have enough stuff to survive that piece of bad luck while people in your life figure out what happened to you...or perhaps you left a note or told someone and that someone has to put two and two together when you don't show up for dinner or "call them by 7:00 P.M."

You know, on a personal level, the "SHHTF" in that case! For you, TSHHTF. Hurricane Katrina and the N.O. levees breaking were not "TEOTWAWKI." But it was "TEOTWAWKI" for over one thousand people, wasn't it? Their world ended that day, didn't matter much to them if the Mayan Calendar runs out and Stephen King's "Maximum Overdrive" comes true...their world came to an end.

Nor am I particularly concerned about self defence and protection when I'm in the bush. If that's your thing, then bully for you.

All the best,

- Mike

Down here, our "bush," said with the full realization that this word is becoming more and more meaningless as time goes on, is a bit different. Canada is not without violence, to be sure, but down here...I think a prudent and reasonable person could carry a suitable handgun and the only people that would object to that or even give it a wary eye are absolutely unreasonable people.

People have been attacked by mountain lions, bears and predatory human beings, I really don't think "gun loving Americans" need to defend themselves in the court of public opinion to a greater degree than I am doing now. Yes, chunking around a Barrett Light .50 because you're scared of bears is probably a bit much but carrying around a four-inch barreled S&W M629 .44 Magnum for protection against bears or mountain lions or a .45 ACP for use against human predators...or simply an old S&W .22 Long Rifle Kit Gun...well, there is simply nothing wrong with that. I have a small fire extinguisher in the master bedroom so my wife and I can get to my son in the middle of the night should there be an emergency so we can then all escape. Some people think that's "unreasonable" or "paranoid," too.

I am trying to strike that balance that you speak of.
 
If I carry more than one means of fire starting when in a wilderness or survival situation then does that make me paranoid? What about backing up a fixed blade with a folder in my pocket? Until now I thought I was well prepared, now I find out that I am paranoid - damn!

What do we want to discuss on this particular thread, guys? Going in the bush prepared, or what if scenarios going out to somewhere other than the bush? When I go out seapaddling today, you're damn right I've got everything I feel is needed to safely handle the conditions I'll likely encounter including VHF, GPS, phone, deck and handheld compass, two neoprene skull caps, three different pairs of neoprene gloves/pogies/mitts, bivy bag,drysuit,spare paddle,three different types of firestarting means, dryclothing, flares, lights, kayak repair kit with means to repair every type of possible break-down short of the boat breaking in half, etc,...

When we go out today, we'll do a ritual I do every time I go out on the ocean. We'll knock off a few rolls to remind us of howing brutally cold it is(people die in minutes out here) to see if there are any issues with our gear before we get out any deeper than neck deep. Let's not forget the 1000's of hours I've paddled to get to the point where I'm able to go out in the middle of winter on the north Atlantic Ocean in the first place. Am I paranoid? NO, I'M PREPARED. Paranoid is wondering how much gear I should bring from my house to the place I'll park my car before I go paddling, cuz you never know when the SHTF. In my opinion, there is a difference.

Do I need to make myself more clear about what I feel is over-paranoid vs. what is simply being properly prepared for wilderness activities?

There's a boat load of stuff I'd like to add, but for whatever reason I'm not making my point well enough. So rather than going any deeper, I'm gonna wipe my hands of this thread and won't post anything else unless I'm singled out. Besides, I'm on my way out as the tide is right, and I'd rather be out there doing than reading about it on the computer:)
 
flipe8, you're hard-core! I have yet to work up the nerve to hit the north Atlantic under paddle power. Sounds like a blast. The closest I have come (which, having grown up in Halifax for a time, I acknowledge is not really close at all) is kayaking in Lake Superior. Anyway, I don't think anyone would call you paranoid.

Don, I have read the same disagreements and debates that you have. Ultimately, it comes down to what works for you in a given situation. I suspect that I carry more in the way of backup gear than someone like Rick or Doc, but I also acknowledge that they are clearly more skilled when it comes to primitive living and general bushcraftery. Our different approaches to gear seem to work for us, and I would never think to attempt to impose my personal idea of preparedness on someone with a more minimalist / skills-based disposition. As for carrying a gun, that's definitely up to you. If it's legal and you find it to be necessary and reasonable, then go for it. For me, it usually isn't legal, and even when it is, I don't find it to be necessary. But that's just me.

In conclusion, gear selection and preparedness decisions need not conform to a Kantian categorical imperative. :D

Best,

- Mike
 
If the question was relevant to W&SS, it wouldn't have been moved to G&G. The only reason it was brought back is that regardless of the OP, the replies were W&SS related despite the OP.



Maybe not. Does continuing to argue a point I've already conceded to differing opinions make you any less of one? Are we done now?

Ahh... now you see why I've had Dougo on ignore for a while now. :)
 
I don't see extra body armor as practical. Of course, I won't wear mine unless I am working anyway. It is too cumbersome and, in a survival scenario (TEOTWAWKI), I wouldn't want to be humping a vest and my other gear, so it would probably be ditched early.



Apparently you have never heard of the word "hyperbole," so I'll help you out:

CM...I carry redundant fire, shelter, nav, knives, and water when I am out and about. This is usually split between my person (Zippo, Water bottle, Compass, jacket, EDC) and my truck (tent, lighters and matches, tarp, purification tablets, etc). I don't know what is needed, especially after watching movies like The Book of Eli. If such a situation comes to fruition, it appears that Wet-Naps are better to carry. :D

If you have seen many of CM post, you would understand why I dont take it as an exaggeration....
 
Redundancy is both important and a hindrance for mission-critical applications. What's mission critical? I think about it this way, if your primary fails and you don't have a back-up, you're truly screwed, if not dead. Think: aviation, cave diving, climbing, parachuting, paragliding, military ops/front line law enforcement, SAR, offshore sailing ...etc. Around town, as a civilian, are you really going to be screwed if you lose your knife or cell phone? Probably not. I usually carry a knife and cell around town, but I often don't too. In the backcountry, I'll always carry back-ups of mission critical gear: a knife + leatherman, a Petzl headlamp + SureFire C2, more than one way to start a fire, plus any gear that is critical to my trip/pursuit. Too much redundancy = too much weight and a slow pace. Another thing to keep in mind is your back-up should be of equal or better quality b/c now you have ONE.

BTW, a Rolex IS like wearing two watches [maybe ten] ... leave it in your will. You could hammer nails in with the crystal. :D
 
Redundancy is both important and a hindrance for mission-critical applications. What's mission critical? I think about it this way, if your primary fails and you don't have a back-up, you're truly screwed, if not dead. Think: aviation, cave diving, climbing, parachuting, paragliding, military ops/front line law enforcement, SAR, offshore sailing ...etc. Around town, as a civilian, are you really going to be screwed if you lose your knife or cell phone? Probably not. I usually carry a knife and cell around town, but I often don't too. In the backcountry, I'll always carry back-ups of mission critical gear: a knife + leatherman, a Petzl headlamp + SureFire C2, more than one way to start a fire, plus any gear that is critical to my trip/pursuit.

"Safety through redundant systems."
 
a tinfoil hat can be a tremedously useful tool. if you have to travel through crowds and you would like to be left alone, or just to have people stay away, throw on a good ole' tinfoil hat(mine is a pirate hat). it is like moses walking up to the sea, a paths appears where there once was none. calling someone a nutjob, plz correct me if i am wrong(i looked through the rules i could find) belongs in w&c.
 
I don't know what rules you are reading and quite frankly it's getting to the point around here where I can't tell the sarcasm from the real insults anymore. :D
 
This thread is brilliant work, CM. Kudos!

In my EDC, I usually carry just a second small knife and a CountyComm SOLED to back up the CR123 tacticool light du jour. One of all my other EDC crap is enough. I only rarely carry a BUG. It feels silly. When I was briefly getting into watches, I wore a watch on each wrist once. That feels REALLY silly, way more so than a knife nut carrying two+ knives.

In the wilderness, things are a bit more serious. Since an unplanned night out ten years ago, I carry redundant fire now. Socks. Warm layer. A Photon to back up the Zipka, but in more than 1K nights out, I've never used it. Believe it or not, fleece beanie and fleece balaclava, and this has paid off in spades when one is soaked from hiking but I can sleep in the dry other. Esbits to back up the stove serve as alternate firestarting anyway. Two hanks of paracord. Occasionally, an extra 2 Ti stakes for the tarp. Usually, a backup map, alternate map, guidebook pages, whatever: some kind of backup nav data.

I'm an aspiring hunter (0 for 2 counting last year!) and bring the SKS or Model 94 as a spare for the .30-06. I'd feel pretty lame if the Savage went TU and I had to go home. I'm not going to continue the hunt with my G26.

When I attend a carbine class, I don't have a redundant AR to bring and feel lame. I'll probably get a spare bolt and carrier sometime. I do bring a G19 to courses to back up the G26.
 
I'm an aspiring hunter (0 for 2 counting last year!) and bring the SKS or Model 94 as a spare for the .30-06. I'd feel pretty lame if the Savage went TU and I had to go home. I'm not going to continue the hunt with my G26.

When I attend a carbine class, I don't have a redundant AR to bring and feel lame. I'll probably get a spare bolt and carrier sometime. I do bring a G19 to courses to back up the G26.

This is another point about redundancy...not necessarily a "survival need", but one that doesn't spoil the occasion. Doing a tactical rifle class or even planning a big hunt would be a heartbreaking bummer if your rifle crapped out for whatever reason!

Last year in TX, we did a backpacking trip as a family. Since the "no open fire" season was in practice, we needed to bring a stove. I usually am the responsible one to pack most of the food and stove/fuel. Well, my wife planned several meals requiring a stove (our part of camping/backpacking we enjoy), the stove was an essential. Unfortunately, my Optimus Nova stove was not fully inspected before we headed out and the leather pressure cup was damaged and not working (I tried to improvise several fixes with no success:mad:). Fortunately, I had my wife pack my Jetboil as that's what I usually use to quickly boil water for coffee in the AM and tea in the PM. Well, fortunately, our gourmet meal planning wasn't a complete loss and my wife was able to improvise with just the Jetboil. Sure, not a redundant measure for safety or survival but it sure was one of enjoyment of a decent meal at the campsite:D

ROCK6
 
Ok so two is one. But what if your backup breaks or is inoperable and you don't know it until your primary fails? Then what? Because of that you should carry a thousand of everything. The likelyhood of all one thousand of your whatevers breaking all at once is very small. Also, one never knows when you'll need a spare penguin. Or door. Or canoe. What would you do if you found your primary penguin had died? I'm sure you don't want to find out. So just to be safe, to be PREPARED, one should carry a thousand of EVERYTHING ON EARTH.

Just

In

Case.

:jerkit:
 
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