2012 Christmas KITH - have you started yet?

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The spirit of KITH is that you don't know what you're going to get. Unless you have every knife judged, you're going to get some bad ones. However, that's what a KITH is, unpredictable and surprising. I've received both ends of the spectrum as well as the middle and was thankful for all of them. If you aren't unconditionally happy with whatever you get, then you don't understand the spirit of it.
 
The spirit of KITH is that you don't know what you're going to get. Unless you have every knife judged, you're going to get some bad ones. However, that's what a KITH is, unpredictable and surprising. I've received both ends of the spectrum as well as the middle and was thankful for all of them. If you aren't unconditionally happy with whatever you get, then you don't understand the spirit of it.

Simply put Zaph! This is the way it should be. If you're a top maker and you're afraid you'll get knife that doesn't meet your expectations, don't enter! I say keep the Spirit of the KITH and of Christmas itself and let's all have fun making the best knife we can and giving it away to someone without the expectation of something valuable in return!
 
Simply put Zaph! This is the way it should be. If you're a top maker and you're afraid you'll get knife that doesn't meet your expectations, don't enter! I say keep the Spirit of the KITH and of Christmas itself and let's all have fun making the best knife we can and giving it away to someone without the expectation of something valuable in return!

I think this is a lovely sentiment. Apparently there was confusion or disagreement on this critical point, hence all the chatter.
 
I was in the 2009 KITH and enjoyed the whole proces of thinking out what kind of knife would be a good entry up to opening the parcel and looking at the knife send to me.
Wasn´t able to be in the 2010 and 2011 ones but was looking forewards to enter again.
I liked the simple and straight forewards rules set up by Stacy.
Simply: Have a good knife ready and boxed the 1st of december.
If so: enter
If not: let it pass this year
I don´t have a digital camera so I won´t be able to make a WIP. I can get pictures taken of a finished knife.
 
The spirit of KITH is that you don't know what you're going to get. Unless you have every knife judged, you're going to get some bad ones. However, that's what a KITH is, unpredictable and surprising. I've received both ends of the spectrum as well as the middle and was thankful for all of them. If you aren't unconditionally happy with whatever you get, then you don't understand the spirit of it.

I'd have to agree with this, if I were to enter one, no matter what level I was at, I would consider it giving away my time and money.. I wouldn't expect anything in return. Anything therefore that you receive is just a nice bonus and a kind gesture from someone else that has done the same, regardless of level. I always took it this way as the KITHs say make it as fancy or as simple as you like, as long as you make it well (to the best of your abilities).

Obviously there is a point where someone putting $1500 into materials might not want to receive $10 worth in return, so the elite makers might want their own category like you guys have done in the past. I Don't think everyone needs to be judged, just have a casual group and a more accomplished group.

Maybe rather than differentiate based on skill levels, have a "$500 a plate dinner" so to speak.. where the materials chosen must exceed a certain dollar amount, effectively shutting out the newer makers for the most part and ensuring a knife of suitable quality entering the KITH from that maker (generally). I doubt maybe newbies like me are going to jump on making a M.S. Quillion dagger with fossilized mammoth ivory handle and 24k gold inlays for example.

This way everyone knows in the upper category that at least someone has put in their best efforts based purely on material costs alone. Either that or they have more money than they know what to do with :) But you basically know you're going to receive a decent knife. Hopefully that rambling makes sense.

Everyone else is in the beginner/casual category, and as long as hey have the mindset that I do my best, you do your best, and nobody is disappointed, it seems good to me.

Just an idea.
 
I'd be interested in participating in the amateur version of one of these. I really like the idea of having it be a WIP as well, since that way those entering can benefit from looking at the techniques of the others, and I'd bet those of us new makers can learn something from each other, both from seeing the WIP, and getting to look at whatever new toy you receive. I agree that for me, the spirit should be that I get to spend some time doing something that I love doing anyways, and hopefully turn out a blade that I can be proud will go to another's home.
 
I'd be interested in participating in the amateur version of one of these. I really like the idea of having it be a WIP as well, since that way those entering can benefit from looking at the techniques of the others, and I'd bet those of us new makers can learn something from each other, both from seeing the WIP, and getting to look at whatever new toy you receive. I agree that for me, the spirit should be that I get to spend some time doing something that I love doing anyways, and hopefully turn out a blade that I can be proud will go to another's home.

I would love to participate in the amateur version as well;) I can see why it would be very hard to organize something like this!
 
Given the choice I would enter the amateur version too. I wouldn't call myself a beginner anymore, but I am certainly no Master Smith. :rolleyes:
 
There will be no amateur version. I ran one last year and it was a disaster from a feelings perspective. Several people who were too good entered into the amateur version, and a lot of people got their feelings hurt when we moved him up to the professional KITH. If we do it, we will have one, no exceptions.
 
There will be no amateur version. I ran one last year and it was a disaster from a feelings perspective. Several people who were too good entered into the amateur version, and a lot of people got their feelings hurt when we moved him up to the professional KITH. If we do it, we will have one, no exceptions.

I understand that. I'm sure we all have different opinions of what we consider amateur :)
 
There will be no amateur version. I ran one last year and it was a disaster from a feelings perspective. Several people who were too good entered into the amateur version, and a lot of people got their feelings hurt when we moved him up to the professional KITH. If we do it, we will have one, no exceptions.

I think thats a better move in general, I think it is a great thing all around but getting a more advanced knife, not necessarily materials but workmanship is great for guys starting out as it can give them something to strive for thats not just a picture. Also if a more experienced maker gets something from a fresh beginner or intermediate then maybe he/she can give some good feedback to that person (if any is needed) and by having the knife in hand can give more personal feedback for things that are hard to see in pictures. Plus its great just to see and hold work from other makers when your starting out.
 
This might be a stupid idea but i have no idea how many knives are usually included in this type of KITH. my thought however was what if each maker finished their knives and shipped to whoever was running the show. Basically I make my knife, ship it to the leader if the KITH and include return postage to my own address. That way someone can sort of tier the knives in a rough manner and draw from groups based on estimated value of the knife submitted. This sorter is out some time but if each person pays their own return shipping there is no expense out of his pocket when he ships out the knives. Maybe i am wrong but this seems like a good way to go, if the numbers of knives are manageable. If there are like 200 knives this may not work very well.
 
Wouldnt it be easier to avoid hurt feelings by just NOT moving people out of the category they want to KITH in? If they want to make one in an amateur level, but are more experienced, I don't see why you would move them. Amateurs get a shot at a nice blade and nobody gets hurt by getting moved. Maybe set a requirement that you must have made at least XXX knives to be in a higher tier.
 
Part of the KITH is to give something nice to someone else.. in which case makers are a higher level entering the newbie kith would be doing something extra nice.. as well as giving a great example for newbies to live up to. However having a single KITH or none at all, makes sense to me as well. In the case of that, you could have an unbiased party who is very experienced be a judge throughout the year for people who just want to send in a knife and have it critiqued, and see if it is KITHworthy.. no deadlines or pressure just "Hey, check out what I made. What do you think?" . Someone like Stacy has such a sharp eye he could give oodles of advice after looking at a knife for a very short time (not that I'm volunteering him in any way, but I do highly respect his opinions).
Anyway just thinking out loud.
 
I am really interested in getting in on the KITH. Before I enter one, assuming this even goes on, i would like to send it to someone just to get an opinion on it. Would someone like Stacy or one of the other experienced makers be willing to look at it and give me an opinion? I know as many have said that you may get a higher value or lower value than what you put in, but I would like to have my work validated to some degree before just entering. Just from my own perspective i would not care if I got something that was very basic or whatever, I would just be happy to have something someone else put their time and effort into. However, I do not want to be one of the guys who sends something that a better maker thinks is not up to par with what else was submitted. I am the type who would feel guilty if someone was not satisfied with what i sent in. Like i said, if this goes on i would be in, but i would like to send a knife or two to someone experienced for an honest opinion first.
 
I´d be interested in participating i a KITH provided no other participants have a problem with the overseas shipping involved. Since I dont do my own heat treat, I would have to start off with one of my blades that are already HT´ed though. I really dont have an oppinion to offer as to whether there should be one or more categories of the KITH.

Brian
 
Guys read this

"A KITH as it was conveyed to me is a modern adaptation of an old practice where guys at a job site would gather at lunch on Friday and throw their pocket knife in a hat, draw one out and that was what they carried for the rest of the week. Around these parts, the KITH evolved from an IITH (Iron In The Hat), where projects were kept very simple (arrowheard for example) to encourage participation.

In the end, a KITH is about community. It represents a challenge to new makers to do their very best work because they are sending it to someone who knows knives as well or better than they do. An honest critique can be a blow to a sensitive ego, but worth so very much in the development of a maker. For the ol' masters, it represents a chance to share years of accumulated knowledge and wisdom. For all, it represents a sense of brotherhood, sharing, and belonging."

This was written by A.Garrett in 2007,it is the best defination of a KITH,and Stacys simple rule worked well.
Don't try and over think it.

Stan
 
I think the tier thing is a good idea but i think that every person should have to submit a pic of the finished knife to stacy and he decides what category/tier the knife fits in because there are some hobbiests out there that make awesome knives this also gets rid of the problem with ppl dropping out because the only way you can enter is if you have a finshed product. This way the knife you are getting is still a surprise, no one drops out, and the level of knife is judged by the level of your work.

I also wanted to enter the kith this year

Give eveyone a due date to send a pic of ther knives then when stacy has decided how many knives are going into the pot and who's knife, he will put out the names. This way there is no confusion, no delays, and no problems.
 
Cept, I don't think Stacy wants to run it again this year, and we probably ought to give the man a break... I'd step up and offer to run one, but time is not my friend right now.
 
I will be glad to manage the KITH if everyone is on board with the same set of rules.
The below explains why I haven't posted it yet.

The above posts and suggestions are part of how this became confused.
Some new makers sent photos of their work and asked for critique and if they were ready to submit to a KITH.
Some were fine, and I said so.
Some were not ready to join in, and I said so.
A few egos got bruised. A newbie KITH was then started ( NKITH for short).

Some who were joining the NKITH showed me their work and I said it was easily of a quality to be in the regular KITH. They moved to the KITH, and some of the newbies cried foul.

Some were going to enter both KITHs, which is contrary to why there were two.

Last year, after the KITHs were done, I posted my suggestion that we would just have one KITH and would find a way to make it work and keep everyone happy.
I was flooded with many suggestions like the dozens in this thread, and received many that were more bizarre.

I also learned that giving people a long time to work on the knives just made some folks put it off till the last minute. Thus, I had planned on posting the KITH thread on October 1, until this thread came up. I sat back for a read on how folks were feeling now. I'm not sure everyone has moved on after last year.

What I have come up with was this:
A single KITH where the entrants would decide if they were ready for this or not. They would have to be honest with themselves about their skills levels and their time restrictions. If they wanted to ask another maker, or me, an opinion, that would be fine ( best done by email and not on the forum). In the end, the maker himself would decide whether enter his knife in the KITH and his name would go into the random drawing.

The basic requirements were that you have been a forum member since January of this year and that you have made a sufficient number of knives to gain the needed skills. Ten knives is the suggestion. This fits 95% of all who might want to join in the KITH. Anyone who was out of those parameters could send some photos of his work and if they were OK could join in. From there on it was a standard KITH with all entries going into the hat for distribution. The names would be drawn, and the info on the recipient of your knife would be sent to you.

So, here is the KITH as I drafted it. If this is OK with everyone, I will post a KITH thread Monday..

2012 CHRISTMAS KITH
This thread is for all those interested in joining the 2012 KITH.
While it is usually called the Christmas KITH, it can be a Hanukkah KITH, or a Winter Solstice KITH, etc. The purpose is to make a knife and give it away to another knifemaker. In return you will get a knife from someone. No one will know who they are making the knife for until after the knife is finished, and no one will know who they will receive a knife from until it arrives in the mail.

SOME BASIC RULES :
1)Entrants are Bladeforums Shop Talk members who have been a member since January 2012. They should have made enough knives to have gained the needed skills to complete a good quality knife. Ten knives completed is suggested as a good guideline.
2)The entrant must make, finish, and box the knife by or before December 1, 2012. Once finished, the maker can then post on the “2012 KITH - I’m Ready” thread. This thread will be posted starting November 1,2012. Photos of the completed knives can be posted on a separate “KITH Photos “ thread.
3)By December 10, 2012, or sooner, I will make a list of the entrants who have posted on the “I’M Ready” thread. I will use a random generator to match the names to another on the list. I will then email the name, contact info, and prepared shipping label of their recipient to each person who completed a knife in the KITH. The entrant will ship the already boxed knife within five days of receipt of his recipient's label and info.
Shipping is recommended to be done by Priority Mail with tracking and insurance. The tracking number should be emailed to me as soon as the box is shipped.

About the knives:
The entry can be any knife or bladesmith related item. Fixed blade, folder, axe, hawk, sword, etc. The only requirement is that it be made by the submitter ( For simplicity, I will refer to it as “the knife“). The workmanship should be of the best quality that you are able to do. Levels will vary depending on ability and experience, but if you feel your knife will be a suitable gift, then by all means enter. If you are just starting, and still learning the basics, perhaps sitting this year out would be best. The knife should be fully completed, and a sheath or case is advisable. You should provide all the pertinent information on the knife in a note to the recipient ( put this in the box). Outside services, such as Water Jet, Stabilization, and Heat Treatment are fine, but the workmanship on the knife should be yours. Kit knives are not permitted.
Those with questions on the suitability of their knives should contact me by email before entering.
The value level of the knife is up to you . It should be something that will be happily received by the new owner, but levels of value will vary, depending on the maker and their circumstances. It is a fun gift exchange, not a swap meet. It is not about what you get back for what you put in. Some knives will be worth $100, and others will be worth $400. I would suggest that you keep the knives in the general range of $200 in value, but it is totally up to you. No one is obligated to go beyond their means to enter this KITH.


So, what do you folks think?
 
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