2014 Forum Knife

jc57 said:
And now you begin to see the issues with the process, just so far in this thread.
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I couldn't agree more John-my thoughts exactly.
I believe that last years polling was completely over the top in terms of how many possible variants one could envisage.
It was was just too easy for people to vote on a very specific knife and if that wasn't what we were getting they could and did opt out.
Which was confusing in terms of "don't vote if yer not gunna buy it".
I myself came up with the purple ramshorn country cousin.
I hope that was taken in jest as it was meant at the time.Once the serious business started and I do appreciate that aspect I opted to buy one no matter what and ceased posting my fatuous ramblings..
Some of the other configurations we came up with were even more hilarious than mine (even if they are meant to be serious).
Too many choices and that came at a price.
I think we may have reached the inevitable point where traditional meets innovation is struggling to maintain relevance- ie "collectable" vs "user". My take is that I would like the BF Trad knife to be collectable and usable (obviously) but not neccessarily "a user".
For this reason I like the idea of using a current production pattern as has been suggested above with some commemorative feature.
I like this idea also because it will keep down the price which is always going to be a hurdle and thereby hopefully bring more people back into the fold so to speak.
It doesn't need to be a never before seen or heard of knife that only the most ardent collector would know the difference anyway.
Quality,Practicality,Economy.
I like the idea of the Czar deciding.Hows about Dare I say it? ...a Czarlow..? come on I can't be the only one who's thought of that.
Anyway I hope it goes ahead -and even if its a six bladed combo turkey gutter ,fish scaler ,pear stalk trimmer,corncob pipe whittler,dangerous pointy bit that no ones sure about, marline spike with burnt clam scales I will get one.
Apologies Charlie-whilst I was typing my brilliant ideas I was unaware of the rapidly rising post count including yours. In no way am I suggesting that this project should be placed at your doorstep however large and palatial that might be.(I do like "The Czarlow"I must admit)Cheers.
 
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jc57 said:
In the past I think Spark has fronted a lot of the costs and efforts involved. I get a feel from the past year's postings that he's not as keen to deal with it as before. Maybe an option is that one of the other vendors / SFO producers runs the show this year instead of putting the burden on Kevin. Or a consortium of several of them. We have four GEC dealers that frequent the forum here, plus Waynorth. I know at least three of them do regular SFOs.

Maybe it would be as simple as the famed model #15 Waynorth Charlow, with "BFC" instead of "TC" on the bolster, in a
couple of handle options.
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I would be in on this!
 
I dont have any skin in the game but I do own the '12 and '13 knives and I wish I owned an '11. I was a bit disappointed in the 2013 process but after I received the knife in person it quickly became one of my favorites.


If they do a knife at all I would choose a popular GEC patern that sells out and is generally hard to find: 66 jack, single blade 85, pembertons, etc. Change the main or secondary and choose a nice jigged bone.

Id love to see a 66 jack with a coping or sheepsfoot secondary.
 
I enjoyed the process last year but fully grasp the pain that it is. In the end it came down to funds, I just did not have them at the time it rolled around. If it was south of 100 I think more folks would have picked one up.

I think its safe to say that if one happens this year it needs to be a modified existing pattern. The polling could really be kept to a minimum along the lines of....

1. Single blade, jack or pen configuration.

2. Frame selection

3. Blade shape

4. Shield

5. Handle material


I think that would cover the majority of it. With simplifying in mind maybe the middle of the road 3.5 inch frame should just be decided in the chit chat here as acceptable?

No company that we can use has more than what 5 or 6, 3.5" frames? Should keep it legal for almost everyone as well.

Food for thought and all in fun as we probably wont do one this year from the vibe I'm getting.


Now for *my* idea of what would be nice to see....

I like Jeffs idea of the outlaw frame. I like the eureka frame as well and the dogleg.

The outlaw or eureka would be great to see as a pen setup (or double ended jack) with a clip point main blade and a coping secondary.

Pic is stolen from Mr. Erickson



If the dogleg 55 frame was used I think a standard Jack configuration would work great with a spear main and wharncliffe secondary or trapper style with both full length.

Always fun to read everyones thoughts and ideas :)
 
Alnamvet68 said:
I suspect there is a lot of oppositional and defiant behavior when it comes to forum knife suggestions. If one member of low hanging fruit status recommends a knife, it's given short thrift, or worse. If the same knife is recommended by whomever has the highest paid membership status, or is a member of the controlling Central Committee, many will go just gaga and soil themselves. If economy is what folks want, take a hard look at the suggestions...if you want to spend 3 figures or more, then let that be somebody else's headache. It really doesn't need to be this difficult, really.
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Last year I voted; I pre-ordered; I got what I wanted (actually more than what I thought it would be); I am satisfied. The 2013 is a winner in my book. It's a shame things are so complicated. I agree that a established GEC pattern with some minor modifications to make it uniquely BF would be great to limit price if the pattern and mods could be chosen with a minimum of problems.
 
Reading through this thread makes me realize that the politics of forum knife design are not that different from the politics of... well, of politics.
 
As someone who pushed for two years to get the Irish Jack made I appreciate everything that we've gone through the last 3-4 years. Still, I feel that the Forum knife needs to have some value above cost and more, cheap, knives that are nothing special don't appeal to me. Getting a special order knife for 25% of what it would cost to have a custom knife made does.

All of the previous knives were something unusual; above and beyond cosmetics. The 2012 knife was unique and since has become a major seller for GEC. I expect the 2013 pattern will also be sold in the future by GEC. In my mind that's a win to the entire knife buying world from the Forum. Case may think our numbers are too low, but they've embraced this marketing strategy by bringing in Tony Bose to advertise it.

I realize making a whole new pattern is costly. I understand the voting process is unruly. I can see we're all fairly opinionated. I don't have any easy ways around any of those.

I suggest that Spark just have a knife made; like one of the SFOs; and limit it to 100 pieces. I expect he could sell that many of just about anything, and that would eliminate the pre-payment, status reports, sales figures, delivery anxiety, etc. I hate to see the people who contribute to this Forum lose input, but I think I’d prefer to take a chance on a knife that’s representative of our traditional slant than not have one at all.
 
Why not have a different knife professional each year design a unique configuration of an existing (GEC, Queen, CSC, etc.) pattern? A member such as Charlie, Ken , Kerry, Tony or Reece could design a pattern/blade/cover/steel combination. That's all they need to do. A Forum committee could then take over to run logistics. This way we get something unique, traditional, and aesthetic, but with the economies associated with a pattern currently in production or just coming into production.

No design compromises by committee, just a single, coherent, aesthetic Forum knife.
 
Nobody wants a 2014 forum knife more than me, I've been here for all of them so far and the problems involving the concept, design, production and distribution of these knives had gotten harder every year, I remember the 2006 Canal Street Cutlery Co. Ring Opener Pen, IIRC there were like 38 sold, it was done in a very relaxed manner and I'm pretty sure everyone that for one was adequately content with the knife and how well the process went.

Just seems like every year the "Event" as it has become had become larger and more complicated till it has gotten to the point where it's so frustrating to do fewer and fewer people want to take on the increasingly more difficult task.

Add to that the the more people involved, (I mean 38 people in 2006 compared to the hundreds for the 2013 endeavor, (which BTW was in my opinion a culmination of the best ideas from all the previous years knives) the more disagreements arise, it's hard enough to get 38 people to agree on an $80 knife getting 350 to agree on a $130 is near impossible but last year's committee did an outstanding job, (I apologize for the many years of psychological therapy ahead we caused this year's committee ;) ) this year's knife as painful as the process was is the epitome of what we originally started 9 years ago an original traditional knife pattern that was not in current production, a knife that would be unique and a consensus of members designing the knife, they were originally meant to be an affordable collectible that you wouldn't mind using.

Over the years we've used Canal Street Cutlery, Northwoods Knives, Queen and GEC with GEC appearing to be the manufacturer of choice. We learned that the more complex/unusual the pattern is, the more time the manufacturer needs to took up to make it leaving us less time to hammer out the details.

I have no answers for how to get this done but I'll do whatever I can to have this year's knife made, we've started something good here 9 years ago and I'd really hate to see it end and with the crew we have here I don't see why it can't be done again. We just need to remember a few simple guidelines

.These members volunteer their time for this, we need to remember this above all, if no one wants to volunteer there won't be a knife so don't beat up the committee.

.You can't please everyone so we have to stop trying, it just takes up way too much time when we have too many choices.

.We're building a club knife here, we're supposed to be friends when it becomes a job we're not dealing with friends anymore, we're dealing with customers and that's not what this started out as.

I'm afraid that we might not get a knife this year and that would be sad but if we work smart, work together with a little flexibility we could still pull one off this year and I'd like to believe that we could get back to what the forum knife was all about, a fun project among like minded forum friends.

If it takes a simpler pattern with durable materials over premium, I'm still in. I hope we can keep the tradition going, thanks for reading my ramblings and thank you so much to all the previous members who undertook this project before and brought it to fruition in all the past years from '06-'13, you folks have my deepest respect and gratitude. If there's anything I could ever do or anyway to show appreciation please let me know.
 
RobbW said:
Why not have a different knife professional each year design a unique configuration of an existing (GEC, Queen, CSC, etc.) pattern? A member such as Charlie, Ken , Kerry, Tony or Reece could design a pattern/blade/cover/steel combination. That's all they need to do. A Forum committee could then take over to run logistics. This way we get something unique, traditional, and aesthetic, but with the economies associated with a pattern currently in production or just coming into production.

No design compromises by committee, just a single, coherent, aesthetic Forum knife.
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This seems like a fantastic idea. If any of our forum craftsmen would be willing.
 
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T. Erdelyi- That was an excellent post.

Very much in the spirit of this forum, and the good people of traditionals. It would be a shame to see the forum knife miss a year
 
why don't we all agree to independantly purchase a yellow delrin peanut at exactly the same time, this will sidestep the organizational hassles. :)
 
T. Erdelyi said:
Nobody wants a 2014 forum knife more than me, I've been here for all of them so far and the problems involving the concept, design, production and distribution of these knives had gotten harder every year, I remember the 2006 Canal Street Cutlery Co. Ring Opener Pen, IIRC there were like 38 sold, it was done in a very relaxed manner and I'm pretty sure everyone that for one was adequately content with the knife and how well the process went.

Just seems like every year the "Event" as it has become had become larger and more complicated till it has gotten to the point where it's so frustrating to do fewer and fewer people want to take on the increasingly more difficult task.

Add to that the the more people involved, (I mean 38 people in 2006 compared to the hundreds for the 2013 endeavor, (which BTW was in my opinion a culmination of the best ideas from all the previous years knives) the more disagreements arise, it's hard enough to get 38 people to agree on an $80 knife getting 350 to agree on a $130 is near impossible but last year's committee did an outstanding job, (I apologize for the many years of psychological therapy ahead we caused this year's committee ;) ) this year's knife as painful as the process was is the epitome of what we originally started 9 years ago an original traditional knife pattern that was not in current production, a knife that would be unique and a consensus of members designing the knife, they were originally meant to be an affordable collectible that you wouldn't mind using.

Over the years we've used Canal Street Cutlery, Northwoods Knives, Queen and GEC with GEC appearing to be the manufacturer of choice. We learned that the more complex/unusual the pattern is, the more time the manufacturer needs to took up to make it leaving us less time to hammer out the details.

I have no answers for how to get this done but I'll do whatever I can to have this year's knife made, we've started something good here 9 years ago and I'd really hate to see it end and with the crew we have here I don't see why it can't be done again. We just need to remember a few simple guidelines

.These members volunteer their time for this, we need to remember this above all, if no one wants to volunteer there won't be a knife so don't beat up the committee.

.You can't please everyone so we have to stop trying, it just takes up way too much time when we have too many choices.

.We're building a club knife here, we're supposed to be friends when it becomes a job we're not dealing with friends anymore, we're dealing with customers and that's not what this started out as.

I'm afraid that we might not get a knife this year and that would be sad but if we work smart, work together with a little flexibility we could still pull one off this year and I'd like to believe that we could get back to what the forum knife was all about, a fun project among like minded forum friends.

If it takes a simpler pattern with durable materials over premium, I'm still in. I hope we can keep the tradition going, thanks for reading my ramblings and thank you so much to all the previous members who undertook this project before and brought it to fruition in all the past years from '06-'13, you folks have my deepest respect and gratitude. If there's anything I could ever do or anyway to show appreciation please let me know.
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Outstanding post sir.
 
pertinux said:
Ha! You're too kind, and also incorrect: I love blue well enough to not inflict it on others who are not as discerning attracted to it. Besides, a good blue-- neither too purple nor too green-- is hard to achieve, although I daresay KSF's results with camel bone make it look all too easy (smashing results, those). So, how's about a 3.25" Regular Jack with a clip point and a screwdriver/caplifter in ram's horn, eh? ;)

All kidding aside, it would be folly to minimize whatever reality is behind statements already made in this thread:


And almost more telling,



~ P.
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To end the pointing of fingers and disagreements, Build them like Model T's or ~P's in this case. :D
They will be made in any color you like as long as it's Black.
Hand Built by every member who puts their money down to buy them. Built on an assembly line Pass Around, with each member preforming hands on operations and assembly. If the knife isn't satisfactory, the only ones to blame is ourselves. :D
 
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