2015 East Coast Custom Knife Show (ECCKS) • Knives in living color!

Virginian, or if I may Ken,

Thing about so many treads on this forum to many get out of control. This is one that has.

To you and everyone else watching this tread. I was not trying to call you out or be disrespectful in any way . I don't even know you.

I always learned the term " Did someone crap in you mess kit " to be another way of asking are ya having a bad day.
some use the term did" someone piss in you cheerios". same thing.
Maybe it was just me but it sounded like you may have been when ya came out swinging over indexed screws. As far as the" simple question Yes or No" I guess was a little out of line. For that I do apologize.

And yes I would have asked STeven the same thing. Hell he's looked me straight in the eyes and told me he didn't like my knives at all. They were to small. I can live with that. Had he insinuated I take short cuts or was in any way lazy I would have had something more to say then OK. I do feel like he and I are friends . Close friends would be a stretch. Weve talked more on this tread than the whole time I've known him which has been a few years now.

Back to the subject at hand. If i sounded disrespectful or i was trying to call you out in any way that was not my intention. Hopefully we meet one day and laugh about this. It's only been a difference of opinions.

All the best
Cliff
 
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The Virginian said:
It is a rude and sarcastic "question" - and the only "answer" it merits would ignite this thread into a personal flame war, which I have thus far attempted to avoid. We can move over to the appropriate forum and do that if you really want. I would prefer not to. Until this point, I have no personal feelings of ill-will towards you.

I never called you out here or said anything to or about you personally - on this thread or anywhere else. I am pretty sure the only time I have even mentioned you or your knives at BF was on a very few threads over the years where folks posted up pictures of your knives here and I believe I have generally praised them. Which makes it all the more difficult to fathom where this is coming from.

Don't want to index your screws? Then don't.

But don't take repeated, personal, cheap shots, at me that you would clearly not do to someone here like STeven whom you know personally.

Don't agree with my opinion on the subject? Fine - it's a free country. Feel free to walk on by without comment, or to respond to the opinion - not to personally ask me sarcastic questions in a public forum.

For example . . .



A thoughtful opinion. If you would take the time, I would love to see some examples of these knives of which you speak where haphazard screw orientations constituted an improvement to the piece over indexed screws. I am certainly open minded enough to consider the possibility - I have just not seen it. Then again, I admit a lack of appreciation of so-called brut de forge and similar "rustic" elements on expensive knives. Maybe random screws falls into that same milieu.

I just have never seen a knife where it occurred to me that the maker's random orientation of the screws was a deliberate, thoughtful, feature that clearly added to the knife, and that the knife would have been "less" if the screws were indexed. I generally feel this way about all fit and finish elements of a knife. But again, I am open to consider the possibility of something different! I have changed my opinions on a lot of things knife and non-knife related over the years. Open and honest discussion can do that.



I would never presume to tell anyone how they have to make a knife - unless they are making it for me and I am paying for it. :)

I would presume to offer my opinions here on features of knives that are posted here that appeal to me and those which I find unappealing - and to state my reasons for those opinions. But they are just opinions, and we can all have different opinions on a lot of things without anyone necessarily being "right" or "wrong." And I know that you are plenty smart enough to realize that whether or not opinions on your and other makers' knives are posted here at BF, collectors do share opinions amongst themselves via e-mails, telephone conversations, at shows, etc.

Personally, I would never call you a lazy bastard. Just because one goes fishin' from time to time, does not make one a lazy bastard. I do not know you NEARLY well enough to make that kind of judgment about you as a person anyway.

Me - I veg out often on Sundays in front of the TV during NFL season. Is that a lazy behavior? Yep!! Does it make me a "lazy bastard?" I think it is unfair to label a person as lazy based on one lazy habit in a life full of all sorts of other behaviors. YMMV.

Finally, there are a LOT of very high end collectors with high six and seven figure collections who do not post here. I think it would be a mistake for anyone to think that STeven and I are the only collectors who place importance on these sorts of details. I am not saying that anyone actually said that we are the only ones - I just want to be clear in case anyone has what I believe is the wrong idea about this just because STeven and I tend to be (almost) the only ones who comment on this.
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With all due respect Ken, you did say this.

"Because I sure cannot imagine that anyone is arguing that a lazy, pseudorandom, haphazard, "just the way it turned out" approach reflects more thoughtfulness, better attention to detail, and better fit and finish than taking the effort to orient the screws the way you actually decided that you wanted them to be (timed or not). THAT makes no sense to me at all."

Your last posts have softened some from this statement, and I appreciate that, but that statement is insulting, you later said it was "cutting Corners", also insulting. That is why I think some people have taken exception to it.

I think Don's example looks fine with the screws the way they are, your opinion obviously differs. It may look better if the screws were oriented lineally to some.

I personally think the examples of Coops fine folders and the ones that STeven posted would all look better if the screws were all aligned. Don's example is about where I think the line should be as to weather or not they should be aligned (this is not a comment on "Class" of knives, just style). On the other hand, I think that any folder that had wrought iron on it (for example) for bolsters or San Mai blade would look silly if the maker aligned all the screw slots. It just doesn't fit the vibe that the knife might convey. To me, it would "screw" it up. (I know it's a terrible pun, and there's no excuse for it, but I will stand by it none the less)

You and STeven have some pretty refined tastes (again not "class" but style), I'm glad not all collectors are that way, some us would not stand a chance.

All the best, Mark
 
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Meanwhile, in Russia... LOL!

We are a passionate bunch.

Mark: You are smart and a diplomat. A pleasure to read your synopsis. I concur.

Virginian, Don, Cliff, brownshoe, stezann, others: I also enjoy your opinions. :thumbup:

STeven: Your argument is partially invalid for me ONLY because when I look at the 'indexed' screws on that Jason Williams OR the Saindon knife they are not 100% aligned or similar. If I (not you) had them, I would be reminded every time I looked at it that they missed the mark ever so slightly. If the JW knife has a pattern which needs a codebreaker, I'm flummoxed. ;)

Had they simply made them 'any old way' I would have let it go and admired it for what it is.

A case of the 99% reaching for 100% and subsequently returning 95%. :/

This said, I've seen enough indexed screws done well to understand the wish and see it gratifying.

••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

May I ask to end THIS indexing conversation for the remainder of this thread? It's a valid discussion, but it's gone to name calling (Cliff, I'm disappointed at this), and non-relevant conversation. Please.

I am sending a link to every one of my clients on this thread to show them how I have stepped up and displayed their work with a caption and promptness. We have a large audience. :thumbup:

Coop
 
Coop, I agree time for the index thing to end . But Please I missed something.

please explain the name calling thing. I will say no more

Cliff
 
Cliff, See post #42. If I mislabeled it as 'namecalling' it's simply poor etiquette.

This and swearing ^^ (#62) is inappropriate talk in a room of World Class knives which I'd like the makers to show their families. Hey, it's the internet!

Cliff, we're good. I love you, too! :)

Coop
 
Coop your amazing photos are eclipsed only by your attitude. Hats off and thank you for what you contribute to this community!

-Clint
 
Mark Knapp said:
With all due respect Ken, you did say this.

"Because I sure cannot imagine that anyone is arguing that a lazy, pseudorandom, haphazard, "just the way it turned out" approach reflects more thoughtfulness, better attention to detail, and better fit and finish than taking the effort to orient the screws the way you actually decided that you wanted them to be (timed or not). THAT makes no sense to me at all."

Your last posts have softened some from this statement, and I appreciate that, but that statement is insulting, you later said it was "cutting Corners", also insulting. That is why I think some people have taken exception to it.

I think Don's example looks fine with the screws the way they are, your opinion obviously differs. It may look better if the screws were oriented lineally to some.

I personally think the examples of Coops fine folders and the ones that STeven posted would all look better if the screws were all aligned. Don's example is about where I think the line should be as to weather or not they should be aligned (this is not a comment on "Class" of knives, just style). On the other hand, I think that any folder that had wrought iron on it (for example) for bolsters or San Mai blade would look silly if the maker aligned all the screw slots. It just doesn't fit the vibe that the knife might convey. To me, it would "screw" it up. (I know it's a terrible pun, and there's no excuse for it, but I will stand by it none the less)

You and STeven have some pretty refined tastes (again not "class" but style), I'm glad not all collectors are that way, some us would not stand a chance.

All the best, Mark
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Hi, Mark.

You quoted a PART of what I posted, out of context. The paragraph before that I specifically opened up the possibility of a thoughtful, intentional. approach to non-indexed screws. I specifically did not describe that as a lazy, pseudorandom, haphazard, "just the way it turned out" approach.

The text you quoted followed that, and specifically contrasted any thoughtful, considered, intentional. approach to non-indexed screws which I had just suggested, against a lazy, pseudorandom, haphazard, "just the way it turned out" approach. That sentence referenced a specific approach - not every knife with non-indexed screws. The sentence also did not call out anyone or reference anyone specifically or say that anyone specifically took this approach. However if that was someone's approach, how could it be "insulting" just to describe it???

As to my mention of "cutting corners" again you removed that from its context. I did not say that anytime someone does not index their screws they are cutting corners. I specifically responded to Coop's statement regarding people not doing it for financial reasons:

"If the time spent (could be one hour for (8) screws?) requires a cost increase, then the maker has to justify moving to another level of pricing, OR eating this time. They may already be tapped in the hours vs wages area."

How is that insulting, and who does it insult?
 
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Cliff Parker said:
Virginian, or if I may Ken,

Thing about so many treads on this forum to many get out of control. This is one that has.

To you and everyone else watching this tread. I was not trying to call you out or be disrespectful in any way . I don't even know you.

I always learned the term " Did someone shit in you mess kit " to be another way of asking are ya having a bad day.
some use the term did" someone piss in you cheerios". same thing.
Maybe it was just me but it sounded like you may have been when ya came out swinging over indexed screws. As far as the" simple question Yes or No" I guess was a little out of line. For that I do apologize.

And yes I would have asked STeven the same thing. Hell he's looked me straight in the eyes and told me he didn't like my knives at all. They were to small. I can live with that. Had he insinuated I take short cuts or was in any way lazy I would have had something more to say then OK. I do feel like he and I are friends . Close friends would be a stretch. Weve talked more on this tread than the whole time I've known him which has been a few years now.

Back to the subject at hand. If i sounded disrespectful or i was trying to call you out in any way that was not my intention. Hopefully we meet one day and laugh about this. It's only been a difference of opinions.

All the best
Cliff
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Cliff, thanks for the nice post. Interwebs communication has its limitations - especially when folks do not know each other well.

Unlike STeven :p, I do really like many of your knives - as I have said here more than once. You are clearly very talented and creative. In fact, I fully expect that one day I will see one of your knives which rings all by bells and I will do my best to add it to my collection. Indexed screws or not. And in the meantime, I would be happy to meet you, shake you hand, talk about knives, or even just share some beers, anytime.


PS - with that I am done with this threadjack and want to get back to enjoying Coop's knifeporn. Very sorry to have participated in detouring your thread, Jim. Henceforth . . . I will lurk.
 
I also apologize for participating in the screwy high jack. Can we blame it on STeven? ;)

Carry on with the good stuff, Coop. I'm watching.
 
The Virginian said:
Hi, Mark.

You quoted a PART of what I posted, out of context. The paragraph before that I specifically opened up the possibility of a thoughtful, intentional. approach to non-indexed screws. I specifically did not describe that as a lazy, pseudorandom, haphazard, "just the way it turned out" approach.

The text you quoted followed that, and specifically contrasted any thoughtful, considered, intentional. approach to non-indexed screws which I had just suggested, against a lazy, pseudorandom, haphazard, "just the way it turned out" approach. That sentence referenced a specific approach - not every knife with non-indexed screws. The sentence also did not call out anyone or reference anyone specifically or say that anyone specifically took this approach. However if that was someone's approach, how could it be "insulting" just to describe it???

As to my mention of "cutting corners" again you removed that from its context. I did not say that anytime someone does not index their screws they are cutting corners. I specifically responded to Coop's statement regarding people not doing it for financial reasons:

"If the time spent (could be one hour for (8) screws?) requires a cost increase, then the maker has to justify moving to another level of pricing, OR eating this time. They may already be tapped in the hours vs wages area."

How is that insulting, and who does it insult?
Click to expand...

I have read them over and over, and every-time they sounded insulting to me though they were not meant for me. Others here also found them insulting otherwise they would not have reacted the way they did. I will take your word for it and assume you did not mean to insult anybody.

In deference to Coop, this is the last time I will comment on it (in this thread).
 
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I can't believe everyone is too lazy to make philips head screws, aren't slotted screws obsolete? :confused: :D

Sweet pics coop, as always. Thanks for taking the time to post.
 
Coop,

Thanks for the awesome thread, awesome images and your awesome kumbaya self ! :cool:

Doug...:thumbup:
 
Loved all the eye candy, Coop, thanks!

And it seemed like a halfway decent fight here, but I had set aside this week for lurking.
 
...there is too much text in this page. :)

Another fine maker travelled to NY/NJ from France. Alain Grangette made this delightful dangling lever-release neck knife.

In an example of karma or coincidence (karma in disguise) this was my next entry to show, despite the conversations.

How about that? it has COMPLETELY indexed screws. :eek: ;) :p :foot:

orig.jpg


Also creating a miniature neck knife is noted engraving/carving artist Amayak Stepanyan with his FIRST knife. Look at how sweet this is.
orig.jpg


orig.jpg


(Doug C: I have fires which rage in me. I do my best to hold them in check. Kumbaya® is a mantra and it does not come as natural as it would appear. ;) Strong men are compassionate men.)

Thanks for admiring! There are still about three more I need to finish.

Coop
 
SharpByCoop said:
.
I have fires which rage in me. I do my best to hold them in check. Kumbaya® is a mantra and it does not come as natural as it would appear. ;) Strong men are compassionate men.
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dude...:thumbup::cool:
 
Thank You very much for your GREAT job Coop!!!
The Grangette's knife is a belt buckle?
 
Ummmm...... yes. You are right. I was mistaken and called it a neck knife.

Cool little belt buckle. :)

Coop
 
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