2018 KITH - ADVANCED

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JTknives

JTknives

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There has been some talk about doing an advanced KITH in the background. We are not wanting to exclude anyone or the bladed item thy choose to make. The one major requirement is your skill level. You need the skill level to achieve a fit and finish that is acceptable to the other experienced smiths. With that being said There is no value requirements on the blade entered. We all have areas to improve upon but this KITH is for the bladesmiths and knife makers that have fit and finish whooped for the most part.


The blade type is up to you, the options are endless. If you want to make a sword, bowie, folder, tomahawk, dagger, seax, hunter exc have at it. There are lots of makers out there that have a nitch thy are really good at. We want everyone to bring there A game and have fun.

There is no strict requirements on steels, but Damascus is not impractical in this advanced setting. There are other equally impressive options like San-Mia or a forged blade with a nice hamon for example. We don’t want to exclude the non forgers so pick a steel you like and that works for the project at hand and make it pop.

Handle material should also be of an advanced nature. This will usually include stabilised burls and figured woods, exotic woods, micarta, Ivory, bone and other nice handle materials. This is not the project to use a chunk of firewood or a chair leg for the handle.


Last but not least is heat treating. This is not the place for billy bobs back yard bbq heat treat. If your at the level of required quality then you need to provide a quality heat treatment. This does not mean you have to do the heat treating your self. You can send the blade out for professional heat treating.

The deadline will be the end of the year or after the last knife is finished, which ever one comes first. One thing that prompted this advanced KITH is I noticed a trend with the other versions through out the years. This trend was that the more experienced guys would end up dropping out. Mostly it seemed like this happened because of time or the lack of it. I know many of us including my self have a good size back log of orders to fill. So a few months is not enough time to finish a blade for a KITH.


If you made it this far I hope I have not offended any of you. We are not looking down our noses at new makers or there quality. If you are new and want to participate in a KITH then keep your eyes open for the yearly Christmas version. That one is normally open to everyone as long as you have the basic skills to complete a good usable knife. If you want to participate but your skill set is not yet up to par you can work hard to get better for next years advanced KITH.

Nothing is set in stone yet. I started this post to see how many would be interested and get some thoughts on the basic guidelines listed above. I am always open to new ideas or thoughts on doing so thing different


Thanks guys - JT

Let’s make this great
 
I'm in, if Warren thinks my work is up to it. ( He has one of my knives). I don't have table legs, but this was once a table top...

IMG_20171207_091325299.jpg
 
JTKnives, are you thinking minimum size, or any must have details? Maybe the ABS JS test knife minimums?

Kevin, I think your blade work is up to par. The handle on the knife I have had some issues that you are aware of. If you got that sorted out, I think your work is up to par. I can give you a few suggestions on handle design too if that would help. Fit and finish was quite good on the knife I have, but the handle ergonomics didn’t suit the purpose of the knife. You saw how I reprofiled the handle. It gets used daily in our house, so it’s a great knife. :cool: :thumbsup:
 
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JTKnives, I am thinking a high performance fighter in z-wear. I spent a lot of time developing the heat treat on this steel, and I think I’d like to show it off. Either that, or a W2 fighter I forged last summer but never finished.
 
I'm interested. I wouldn't have to worry about time for sending blades out for heat treatment . I think with a long term deadline I can have fit and finish where they need to be. That said if someone is willing to examine the entries I am very willing to send it out with return shipping paid for someone to critic. I understand that it isn't fun to gamble on getting back a blade that isn't the same quality as what you put in.
 
The problem is that different people consider themselves advanced with very different skill sets.
One person might consider themselves advanced when they have been making knives for two years and made less than 30 knives. Another might consider advanced as having over five years experience and making hundreds of knives. A Japanese smith may not be considered advanced for 10-15 years.

I think the way to make this work would be to have minimum levels of materials and such. The material should be worked by the maker. Things like it self made damascus, a hamon that the maker did the yaki-ire, san-mai made by the maker, etc. , would separate the less skilled smith from those with greater experience.

I also think there might be some sort of division of entrants by the final product, like Hoss suggested. This would allow all makers who consider themselves advanced to be judged on their final product, not their years of smithing/knifemaking experience.

I agree that the longer time frame would make this more successful. I would set an arbitrary date like New Years day 2019.
 
This type of format seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

There are no defined parameters for 'skilled', 'advanced', etc. And even if there were, who decides that?.....and how?.....and why are they qualified to do so?

Things like this all too often end in bitter feelings.
 
If you are going to do something like this then doing by invitation only would be better.
Maybe a criteria should be a history of posting their work here as an example of their skill level.

I have seen the blades of many who post here, but there are those who post and their makers mark and quality of work are not really familiar.
 
J. Doyle said:
This type of format seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

There are no defined parameters for 'skilled', 'advanced', etc. And even if there were, who decides that?.....and how?.....and why are they qualified to do so?

Things like this all too often end in bitter feelings.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was thinking.
 
Just a thought, but maybe we should pick up to 3 makers that we can all agree are advanced, to judge the final pieces into one of two or three tiers.

Something like "Advanced", "semi-advanced", and "room for improvement".

There could also be room to make suggestions throughout the build at various stages to move it from one tier to the other if it's agreed to not be quite up to snuff. This will allow a more inclusive KITH, for those makers who may not post a lot of work, but still might like to be involved, and it also adds a bit of a safety buffer so that at the end, the swapping is a bit more even.

As for the criteria, I don't think it needs to be an extensive list, but maybe to include at least 2 or 3 feature of "fit and finish" options list:

Hamon or other style of etching
Handrubbed or high polish finish
fitted guard, sub-hilt, bolsters, or other fittings
domed pins
exotic materials
fluting, fuller, or file work
tapered tang
take down style handle

so on and so forth.

Something like the above list will give some "advanced" constraints, but still leave room to make just about anything from folders, to kitchen knives, to bowies, or whatever a maker may be a bit more comfortable with while still submitted a worthy piece.

Just my $.02.
 
I'd love to do a "Make and Trade" with someone who's in my approximate skill level. But I'd want to manage that 1 on 1 and not randomly in a drawing, because I'm willing to take my knife back, in fact, if I received something from one of you guys that was obviously over valued from what I sent you, I'd insist on us trading back and thank you for allowing me to evaluate your work, and for you evaluating mine. Less risk that I end up feeling like an ass for not supplying something of equivalent value, or feeling cheated because I sent off a 40 hour knife and got a 10 hour one in return.

Just putting my hands on someone else's work is invaluable to me because I haven't been to any shows and likely won't for some time, and so much is lost in pictures.

So if someone is interested in doing something like that with me, I'm open to it. I like making damascus bowies. I have been steadily doing things to prepare myself for making an heirloom quality bowie with high end materials and fit/finish. The next step is for me to make a big damascus bowie that's relatively simple with reasonably priced materials, say stag or nice wood - before I take the plunge with the walrus ivory I have squirreled away.

I'd love to trade 10-14" damascus bowies with someone else who is on a similar path or is more experienced making knives like that, with the understanding if you want to trade back, for any reason, no harm no foul, because I'm more interested in evaluating your work and your feedback on mine.

If you're interested in something like that, hit me up and we can talk about timelines and details.
 
I do not consider my self an "advanced" maker. However in MHO if you're going to hold an event like this I think leave it open to anyone, but have a list of criteria that need to be met as far as fit and finish and materials, and possibly size. Everyone makes their knives and submits decent images that show every aspect of their blade and quality. These images would have criteria as well so judging could be done in fairness. IE: left side blade, right side blade, plunge lines, handle left, handle right, top, bottom..................

Have a group of 3 or more people that have been agreed upon as judges to select where they feel the skill and quality reside. and draw from there.
 
First off, I have to say that I consider my self to be a beginner in knifemaking. That said, I would welcome a longer duration KITH that is judged and divided into categories as Devin T and Knife to a Gunfight suggested. As Mr. Doyle said, there is definitely the possibility for discontent and bitter feelings, but I think that if the judges and judging criteria is laid out beforehand that would help minimize those feelings. Entering into that KITH would include an agreement to peacefully abide with the judges decisions. I would gladly do so, and would happily ship the knife to the judges and include shipping to the final recipient, especially so if the judges took a moment to offer a critique of the blade.
 
Heh... An advanced level KITH? I can see this ending in tears, with great gnashing of teeth. Think of all the people (not I...) who delude themselves into truly believing they belong there...
 
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