25 lock rock...?

I just received a very nice 25 as a back up to my 25 from the first run that I've been using pretty regularly, the back up has a June 6th birthday which is pretty close to the one you have.
I've noticed that on the newer one that the blade has a bit of movement around the pivot pin as if the pin is slightly too small or the hole in the blade slightly too large, it's disappointing to me but not a deal breaker. I have the other first run 25 and three Umnumzaans so I'm used to a CRK bushing less pivot, this one doesn't live up to the bar that those knives have set.
The deal breaker for me with this particular 25 is that the lock sticks when I disengage it, so much so that it makes am audible click and then releases. It isn't from resting in a divot on the steel created by the ceramic ball so I can only ASSUME that it has something to do with the looser pivot. The lock bar on this one also comes very very close to touching the non locking side of the knife, way more than any of my other ceramic ball interfacing CRKs but with the bigger ball it only shows as reaching approx 75% engagement on the tang.

I have a few CRKs and am willing to give them some slack but I'll be sending this knife in for service and feel that you should do the same. I think that you deserve to enjoy the knife like I do my first run 25 for the money that you shelled out for it and have no doubt that they'll get you one that nice if you give them a chance to make it right.

Good luck to you.
 
Well thanks everyone for all the wonderful incite! It's has solid lock up with a couple pounds of force. But when I really get on it and try it is very slight forward and back play. It is a beautiful knife! And I am impressed! I would recommend this knife to anyone. CRK really stepped up on this knife! I think I am just weird about any play I guess. I think that I am able to get more torque with the longer blades so I believe I am able to notice it more. I just settled down and wrote this so I'm going to play with it some more :)
 
I think the flex is something you are more likely to get with the ceramic ball locking knives like Umnum or 25. My guess is because there is less contact on the blade, a little part of the ceramic ball versus the whole lockbar on a sebenza. I don't think it's an issue necessarily i would consider it normal, due to the design. I've been able to get flex out of an umnumzaan at a store, and never with any sebenza I've had. It's really not that big a deal in my opinion, i find i don't really care about blade flex as much as i used too, when i did it was because i assumed it was lack of quality, but I've come to the conclusion that folding knives by design are not always going to be fixed blade solid, and if i need something that solid then i will get a fixed blade.

If you are using knives to cut stuff a little bit of play or flex is not a big deal.
 
kwazyjuice said:
Well thanks everyone for all the wonderful incite! It's has solid lock up with a couple pounds of force. But when I really get on it and try it is very slight forward and back play. It is a beautiful knife! And I am impressed! I would recommend this knife to anyone. CRK really stepped up on this knife! I think I am just weird about any play I guess. I think that I am able to get more torque with the longer blades so I believe I am able to notice it more. I just settled down and wrote this so I'm going to play with it some more :)
Click to expand...

I find that if I try hard enough, I can get it to flex a bit. I don't beat on the knife. I'm happy to cut hard with it, but don't put huge loads on the lock. Unless you baton a folder, there will hardly ever be an issue with this. In the end, this is all a compromise. If CRK made an indestructible lock, it would also likely be a nightmare to disengage. I find the Sebenza is a good mix of strength and ease of use. If there's any play under a light load, that's a problem and CRK should take care of it. If it takes effort to make anything flex or move, it should be fine.

Also, let your new companion break in. Every Seb I've owned was a bit rough when new. It took a few months of use to get that glassy smoothness a lot of people talk about. I'm currently breaking in my micarta Insingo. It's not as nice as my broken in plain version, but both are nice blades. I hope your 25 will be with you for a long time to come.
 
Well, since you can send the knife in either today or in 20 years, I would use it for a while and see if it gets better or worse. Then make your decisions. My sebenza had some quirks that bothered me too, but after playing with it and using it for light duty they disappeared. Think of it like a fine engine, use it and break it in smoothly and it will perform better and better. Enjoy it!
 
I can force "lock rock" on ALL my CRK's, no matter which model, year made, ceramic ball etc.. I can also push my car out my garage when I put it in neutral but I usually don't need to do that.
 
lemmuhj said:
I can force "lock rock" on ALL my CRK's, no matter which model, year made, ceramic ball etc.. I can also push my car out my garage when I put it in neutral but I usually don't need to do that.
Click to expand...

All good as long as it doesn't roll out of the garage on it's own.
 
I open and closed the knife a bunch and it seems to be working. You guys were right just give it some use and break it in. It is really ever so slight movement forward and back now. I don't think anybody really gets on the pivot as much as I do when I test for blade play. I actually use pressure on the handle in the opposite direction of the pressure on the blade to see for blade play. As I have started to play with it more and more I think you probably could get blade play if you try hard enough like one of you have said. Thanks for all your input again. And I am defiantly very happy with the knife!!
 
That's not really a good test because the longer the blade, the more force you can exert due to leverage. Grab it mid blade and give it some. I bet i could introduce movement into all my knives except for my axis lock knives (as long as the pivot is tensioned properly).
 
Using as much force as I safely can, some of my liner/framelocks will exhibit lock rock.
(Strangely, some cheapies are rock solid... :confused:)
I have tested the few that move, seeing if they would unlock with considerable pressure. They didn't.
Lock rock isn't preferred, but it definitely doesn't mean the lock is unreliable. (In my opinion.) :)

If you must know, just stress test your knife's lock. It's really the only way to be sure your particular knife is reliable.
 
Its a ceramic ball making contact with slippery surface... There's going to be minimal lock slip. Anyone who says they don't feel any vertical lock slip are either lying or not trying hard enough and cranking on the blade from the tip. The lockup is still super strong and reliable. Once its worn in there will be a little dent created in the blade tang for the ceramic ball to settle into and reduce the lock slippage even more.
 
I gotcha!! Yeah it does feel secure! I don't doubt the locks ability at all. That does make sense with the ceramic ball.
 
I sent the knife in today. I realized that I wasn't applying that much pressure to feel the lock rock. I really noticed when I went to cut one of the big burly zip ties and I could feel the play. Even after using it, opening, closing, and disassembly and assemble. I couldn't be happy with the knife like that.
 
kwazyjuice said:
I sent the knife in today. I realized that I wasn't applying that much pressure to feel the lock rock. I really noticed when I went to cut one of the big burly zip ties and I could feel the play. Even after using it, opening, closing, and disassembly and assemble. I couldn't be happy with the knife like that.
Click to expand...

Understandable. Don't forget to let us know what the final outcome is.
CRK is known to have good customer service.
 
kawr said:
Its a ceramic ball making contact with slippery surface... There's going to be minimal lock slip. Anyone who says they don't feel any vertical lock slip are either lying or not trying hard enough and cranking on the blade from the tip. The lockup is still super strong and reliable. Once its worn in there will be a little dent created in the blade tang for the ceramic ball to settle into and reduce the lock slippage even more.
Click to expand...

Neither my 25 or my Umnumzaan have any lock slip at all, and nobody else's should, either.


If I were stupid enough to REALLY torque on the blade, just to see what would happen, I could induce lock flex, which might lead to slip. But I have close to $1000 in knives there. Why on Earth would I want to do that?
 
Yes I will let everyone know what's going on with the process. Seems like they were very willing to make me happy whe I talked to Angela on the phone. It has been a positve experience so far!
 
Just an fyi. I posted this in another thread:

Lock rock is the actual spring moving/slipping/walking to the unlock position. This is normally with very little pressure to the spine. If you bear down on any folder the lock will move, so common sense needs to play a role here. If one bears down on a blade trying to enforce any form of movement that is you flexing the lock and parts. Not the knife being defective.

Here is an extract from my longer framelocks posts.

"Three points of contact:
1. Stop pin
2. Pivot pin
3. Interface between blade and spring (ie, lockface/lock engagement area hereafter referred to LF) Spring is also the liner lock, framelock.

This forms a triangle.

Now, the LF is the area lets focus on first.

BT. refers to the angle of the lock face to be between 7.5 and 8.5 degrees. Les then 5 degrees and the spring will jam. More then 10 degrees and the spring will start slipping off the LF.

Now the start of a radius lock face, the maximum therefore cannot exceed 10 degrees or else the lock will start slipping when the lock wears to that point. As mentioned as lock rock in the video when referring to the Strider (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUoVPLirWg8)

Now.

Do not think the angle plays the only role in the lock slipping. The finished LF can have a rough spot, not be polished enough, the spring's interface between the LF can also play a role.

Let us examine this from the Emerson website.

http://emersonknives.com/blog/emerson-knife-anatomy/

If the LF connected to the spring more in the middle or at the top of the spring where the detent is on most (point nr 3 closer to the pivot pin nr 2) then you would experience blade roll. This is when you have vertical type play but what happens is the blade actually rolls on the spring because the spring connects in the wrong place with the LF."
 
Ok I could have mislabeled the thread. It should say blade play...? Is what you're saying? When the knife is in the fully locked open position. I get forward and backwards blade play. With I would say 2-4 lbs of pressure. Nothing out of the ordinary when applying force when cutting, slicing, whittling, or what you may do with your knife.
 
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