$250 for a taiwan knife?

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The world is changing fast and though I'd prefer to buy a knife that was made in the U.S if possible (my last 3 are American made and terrific) BUT all it takes is a few seconds handling my Sage 2 to know for certain that the factory that builds knives for Spyderco in Taiwan is putting out a great product.
 
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Spyderco prices their knives by a fixed percentage markup. All knives except for a few models, have the same percentage markup (by MSRP). If that is how much it costs, then it is because it was expensive to make. People wanted the knife so they made it. They aren't going to lose money just because it was expensive to make. Sal did something different and made a flipper and put bearings in it, as well as a 'super steel'. Posts like this I'm sure don't encourage him to do things a little different and take a chance on unknown design features. If you don't like the knife or the price, then don't buy it. No one was promised a cheap knife and I would say those who like it are somewhat lucky it was built at all. There are lots of flipper knives out there and many are pretty darn cheap if price is the concern.
 
I consider the Taichung Spyderco's to have the best fit and finish out of all the spyderco factories. Sal has said in the past he didn't choose to produce knives overseas as a way to cut costs, but because those were the factories that could produce a product to Spyderco's standard of quality.

I choose to spend my money on quality made goods regardless of origin. I detest today's disposable walmart world. I would rather have a few nice possessions built to last a lifetime than a household of crap, unfortunately not many people are willing to pay the price for quality goods anymore.
 
Who cares where spydeco makes there thumbers if you want an american made framelock flipper heaven knows theres a ton to choose from. Seems to be the knife du jour
 
It's also a bit ironic that we are using computers made in China to argue/talk/discuss about this !!!!!!!!!!!
I want US made stuff too, but reality is that there is wonderful things being made all over the world and we are in an awesome time that we can access gthem so easily.
 
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$250 is a lot. You can get a good zt or a protech integrity for that price.

But I honestly feel like they are still going to blow people away when they get them.

The gayle bradley could easily seel for $200, possibly $250, so I am expecting a knife that will rival low end customs. T

Time will tell.
 
...................not this thread again......................
im just going to copy what someone posted on the spyderco wall on facebook from june 7th



I don't understand why your Taiwanese knives, although quite lovely, retail for 400 dollars, i.e. the Southard flipper, and the Tuff. And the Southfork? For a fixed blade? What? I don't understand the logic.
Like · · June 7 at 9:29pm near Bemidji, MN


Paul Monnens Basically, what you're saying through pricing is that your Taiwanese knives are as good as any Chris Reeve knife on the market. I'd include Strider, but I think Spyderco makes better knives than Strider as it is. These price points for southeast Asian knives is simply absurd, and I don't expect a reply because I don't believe there is one.
June 7 at 11:40pm · Like


Diego R. A. Bannister Here I will feild this one, It cost so much because of the quality. Taichung is a special city i ntaiwan that is famous for its quality, like how 関市(seki city) is famous in japan. UNLIKE 関市 which only uses lateral steels(japanese steels), Taichung works with a lot of other steels incredibly well. Especially the Carpenter steels which are AMAZING!
Reasons it is so high, HIGH QUALITY materially with excellent fit and finish, HIGH quality steel that makes VG10 look like a combat spork, EXCELLENT HEAT TREATMENT!!!!!(I cannot stress this enough)

I have had a CRK Zaan, but spyderco knocked it out, Striders are known to develop blade play. My Spydercos Don't have any blade play, and great quality. Don't let other bad qaulity asian knives fool you, Taichung is in a league ALL BY ITSELF! trust me on this.

Don't quote me on this but I think that all the titanium is even heat treated to match the HRC of the blade to make the lockup stronger

Reason why the Flipper is so costly,
They had to develop a flipping system from scratch for their first ever Flipper, High Grade G10 (there actually are different qualities of G10) with BOTH side being Titanium, one with G10 one with an integral lock
The Steel is CTS204P (I think) which makes S30v/S35vn look like 8Cr13Mov, and here is the kicker. IT IS HEAT TREATED PERFECTLY, bad treatment can ruin a good steel but they do it well, Also a low friction flipper with 0 blade play is hard to make

The Tuff: Bubbled G10 one one side and Bubbled TITANIUM SCALE WITH INTEGRAL LOCK. That makes it very strong, So strong that the steel 3v (Which is usually only used in Custom Fixed blades because of its strength which people compare to Infini by busse)steel can be used well. Basically its an UBER strong knife. I have seen a 4 inch 3v fixed blade with micarta scales go for 600. This is good price for the Tuff especially since its a difficult steel to heat treat but Taichung does it perfectly with plenty of quality control monitoring throughout the process
June 8 at 12:21am · Like · 2


Diego R. A. Bannister The Phil Wilson SouthFork uses S90v which is like CTS204P in my opinion, a surprisingly thick piece at that. BEAUTIFULLY THICK, Phil wilson is considered the guru of edge geometry, steel and heat treatment and even he would allow taichung to make his spyderco collab with confidence. A beautifully thick piece of S90V heat treated well will make a nice knife. It will be really strong.

Trust me Sal from Spyderco would not choose Taichung for no reason, The Taichung Taiwan knives or amazing,

I even plan to get the CTSXHP Techno

Any questions in particular you want me to field ask away. I may be slow to respond because im working in Vietnam now but I will answer the best I can. Trust me on this though, it is worth it
June 8 at 12:27am · Like


Spyderco Paul,
We’re happy to reply. We believe in being as transparent as possible. Sal has had many public discussions about our models from Taiwan and I’ll try to share some of his words with you here. It’s important to remember that Taiwan isn’t China and we should be careful to not confuse "Taiwan" knives made in China with those actually made in Taiwan. We work with two small family-owned makers in Taiwan, both were handpicked by Sal. Our makers there are exceptional and take great pride in their work. Wages in Taiwan are about the same as the US or a tad higher. Their engineers, knifemakers, CNC operators, grinders, etc. live as we do. It's the US Dollar / Taiwan Dollar valuation that makes the difference. There is no steel production in Taiwan; we ship sheets of U.S. steel to our makers. The blades are cut out (laser), heat-treated, ground and polished in Taiwan. There is a very strong following for our Taiwan models that seems to grow every day. Have you handled any of our Taiwan models? If you haven’t, I would encourage you to before you make judgment. If you have any other questions please feel free to post. Sal and I participate regularly on our forums and I’m always lurking nearby here on facebook. Thank you for posting. - Kristi
June 8 at 12:09pm · Unlike · 3


Michael Spofford I think it is also important to point out that Taiwan is multi-party democracy. As such, the Taiwanese are respresented in their government and enjoy the same freedoms that we do here in the United States. Fair wages are demanded by their people, just like in any democracy, and they have the right to be paid for their work and not suffer any pre-conceived notions that their work is of less quality because they happen to live in southeast Asia.
June 8 at 1:00pm via mobile · Unlike · 1


Diego R. A. Bannister Just take it from a guy who lived in america and now in vietnam, Taiwan makes GOOD knives. Just try some of the models coming out.
June 8 at 1:08pm · Like


Dillon Ang The fit and finish of the Taiwanese knives is second to none. They are better than the many Seki-city sprint runs and normal production knives I have. It's only a tad better than my American Spyderco which is perfect. It's surprisingly enough much cleaner than my Benchmade even. I would pay that much for perfection in a knife. I can't even see the seams and fit and finish is like a bank vault. Everything is super-smooth and the tolerances are crazy good.
June 8 at 1:33pm · Unlike · 1


Eric Hsieh The Gayle Bradley is made in Taichung and it is possibly my favorite Spyderco ever. I have total faith in the QC coming out of Taiwan.
June 8 at 4:18pm via mobile · Unlike · 1


Adam Sage I have all four Sages, A Gayle Bradley, a PPT and a Vallotton, all of which are made in Taiwan and all are incredible knives for the money. I must admit people cringe when I tell them where its from, but its more out of ignorance then experience. It only takes a few minutes of handling one of these great products to win them over, and the same can be said about almost everybody. We all know by now, or at least should, that Sal has our backs and wouldn't put his name and his brand on the line if he didn't have full confidence in it
 
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I used to feel the same way about knives or anything for that matter coming from Taiwan till I purchased the CS Recon1 clip point unaware it was coming from there. All I can say is that there is absolutely nothing I can complain about with that knife. I know many don't care much about CS for whatever reason but if everyone was given a knife from the Recon1 series no one would be complaining about that specific knife.
 
If Spyderco could get their Golden or Japan factories to put out as good quality as Taichung does, I'd be right there with you. As it is, I'm in favor of Spyderco moving every model to Taichung :D.

That's only because I value the quality of a knife over where it's made.
 
so am i missing something here? its not because of quality issues... but, its the fact that its made in taiwan? not in japan or usa or some country you prefer?
 
I think what the OP is saying is that Spyderco makes knives in Taiwan to save money, so it seems weird to see a knife from Taiwan being sold at a premium (ultra-premium, frankly) price. Shouldn't those cost savings be passed on to the consumer? I'm sure that the Taiwanese manufacturer is good... but let's call a spade a spade here: Spyderco makes knives there to save money. Not because Taiwanese knife-makers are very skilled, as some posters here have speculated.

Think about it like this: you buy an Italian suit for $2000. You look inside, and you spot a little label that says, "Hecho en Mexico." Suddenly... it's not an Italian suit. It's an Italian-style suit... made by cheap labor in Mexico. You will feel robbed. Even if the stitching is pretty good. Because it is not the same, at all. And yes, there is a craftsmanship difference. Now, maybe it was a fine suit, anyway, and very well-made. So you might be willing to buy it and wear it... but for $600. Not $2000. That's what you pay for a real Italian suit. You get what you pay for, always. No one should ever forget that. Sometimes you get good deals, but you save money by manufacturing in Taiwan for a reason.

Moral of the story: I will not be paying $2000 for a suit "hecho en Mexico." I'll pay $600. Along the same vein, I will not be paying $256 for a knife made in Taiwan. I'll pay $50. So I guess I agree with the OP...
 
Agree, made in Taiwan should reduce the price of the knife. Zt 560 is US made for around the same price.
 
I'm all for a quality knife ethically produced anywhere, and I'm especially looking forward to the Spyderco Tuff.

Still, I am curious; of the customer's hard-earned money, how much of the ~$250 spent goes to US-based employees and how much of it goes to Taiwan-based employees?
 
I didn't think I'd ever buy a knife made in Taiwan, but then I bought a Sage 2 spur of the moment. F&F is perfect. I can't find a single flaw on it. I just got a Gayle Bradley today. F&F is flawless. Blade is perfectly centered, lockup is solid and the liner locks up right where it should. Both knives came shaving sharp.

My lefty Military came with an off centered blade. Other than that F&F was great.

The bottom line is that Spyderco is a company I'll buy from, even if they make some knives overseas. These 2 Taichung made Spydercos don't make me ashamed to carry a foreign made knife. I prefer to buy American, and I carry an American made slipjoint daily, but man some of these models are too good to pass up.
 
So it is agreed? Spyderco needs to reduce the price by making the steel 440a, swap to low grade G10, scrap all the titanium framelock designs have less skilled ppl working the machines and inspections, etc

(btw that is sarcasm just incase you missed it. if that same quality was made in america it would be almost the same price if not higher. the TWD and USD wages are pretty close, that isnt a sweat shop country. It competes with the zero tolerance line in quality. The blades arent as thick if thats what some ppl are complaining about (I PAY MORE SO I WANT A THICK BLADE!!! So THICK I WANT 1INCH THICK AT TIP WOOOT!)

Its premium materials premium quality [and quality control/inspection] SKILLED people machining and assembling. Taiwan barely saves any money per knife. I believe Sal just uses Taichung Taiwan because they can do what he is looking for. I don't see many US companies (kershaw/zt excluded from this phrase). able to keep up with the variety of styles and steels or even match the innovation? Such a wide range can't be made easily so Taichung is just the best suited for the job. If you want to build a car and the best person was in vietnam do you just let your neighbor build and hope for same quality?

Please consider that Taichung is just good. Not a cost saver because it doesnt really save money if you think about the price?
Taiwan has 30 Twd for 1 usd i think, but a coffee there is like 100twd(mean while I am paying 13000 dong for coffe lol 55 cents us). standard of living is very similiar to US.

Taichung just is able to do more stuff, before anyone says "derphurp japan " I would like to mention before that japan works laterally so they prefer to only use Japanese steels and mats. Good luck getting your Elmax or CTS XHP fix from that
 
Magnaminous_G said:
I think what the OP is saying is that Spyderco makes knives in Taiwan to save money, so it seems weird to see a knife from Taiwan being sold at a premium (ultra-premium, frankly) price. Shouldn't those cost savings be passed on to the consumer? I'm sure that the Taiwanese manufacturer is good... but let's call a spade a spade here: Spyderco makes knives there to save money. Not because Taiwanese knife-makers are very skilled, as some posters here have speculated.

Think about it like this: you buy an Italian suit for $2000. You look inside, and you spot a little label that says, "Hecho en Mexico." Suddenly... it's not an Italian suit. It's an Italian-style suit... made by cheap labor in Mexico. You will feel robbed. Even if the stitching is pretty good. Because it is not the same, at all. And yes, there is a craftsmanship difference. Now, maybe it was a fine suit, anyway, and very well-made. So you might be willing to buy it and wear it... but for $600. Not $2000. That's what you pay for a real Italian suit. You get what you pay for, always. No one should ever forget that. Sometimes you get good deals, but you save money by manufacturing in Taiwan for a reason.

Moral of the story: I will not be paying $2000 for a suit "hecho en Mexico." I'll pay $600. Along the same vein, I will not be paying $256 for a knife made in Taiwan. I'll pay $50. So I guess I agree with the OP...
Click to expand...

The assumption there is Spyderco would sell the knife for the same price (or perhaps less) if made in Golden or Japan, and that's simply not true. It would be more expensive.

If my mind serves me, Sal posted $1 in U.S. manufacturing cost is $.70 in Taiwan and $1.20 in Japan. So, if the MSRP in Taiwan is $400, would you be more willing to buy the knife if it had a $575 MSRP and made in Golden (~$350 street price), or $690 MSRP made in Japan ($415+ street)?
 
man im so sick of these kinds of threads...i usually dont reply and let them die. but ive had a few coors so ill add my 2cents.

first off if you cant distinguish Taiwan from China you probably shouldnt own a knife (lord knows not a gun). Go buy some books instead.

If you've never handled a spyderco knife made from there dont talk a bunch of smack, its truly childish.

ive handled both taichung and golden models. couldnt even tell the difference.

I understand you want your hard earned dollars to go to good folks of the US of A so if a knife offends you that much because its made elsewhere then just DONT buy it. go make it yourself. better yet take all your angst and write it in a marble booklet (that was made in china) with a BIC pen (that was made in Brazil) and leave it off the forums.

sorry i couldnt just let this thread die.
 
I think i see the arguement of nationalism here. I only buy merican knives cause im merican. I wonder if Chinese people only want to buy chinese knives lol.
 
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