$250 for a taiwan knife?

[jvarn81]

Its lose, not loose.

Oops, rough day.....

 

[mattmanyam]

ITS NOT THAT ITS MADE OVERSEAS. ITS BECAUSE ITS NOT PRICED IN ACCORDANCE WITH A PRODUCT MADE IN TAIWAN.

It has been pointed out to you several times that this argument is invalid.Two direct quotes from Sal stating that their margins are set the same way, regardless of where the knife was produced...

Where did your Elmax come from in your 560? (How does that not contradict your own argument?)

 

[KNaB]

Some more informative quotes by Sal on this topic. Yes, this topic has come up once or twice before before. I know- hard to believe

Hi Scottsman,

let me scratch your head.

Wages in Taiwan are about the same as the US or a tad higher. Their engineers, knifemakers, CNC operators, grinders, etc. live as we do. It's the US Dollar / Taiwan Dollar valuation that makes the difference.

Our US factory, (while still growing) is making as many knives as we can as fast as we can. Who else in America could make them for us to our quality standards? Our Japanese makers could not take on the project of so many different locks, each re-engineered for each model and each with different exotic handle materials. It's a tough line to make, especially with a new lock each year.

It was use this particular maker in Taiwan or not have the model available at all for our discriminating customers.



It's a good question and one that I believe all Americans need to be concerned about. That's why we continue to grow our US factory rather than just outsource all to China and make a lot more money.

It's just my opinion; We must build product in America or we will forget how. (Afghanistan went from producing female Doctors to illiterate women in just two generations). We must grow food in America, enough to feed us all by at least double. We need to.........................Ok, off my bandwagon. I think you know what i mean.

sal

Interesting thread.

We've had 3 knife designer/makers comment. Seems to be a riff, even after all of the comments. I'll try to help explain, but I just got back into town so it won't all be tonight.

Regarding the design: The design was created by Pekka. Puukko's aren't my area of expertise so I go to the experts. Pekka is a highly respected designer/maker. This is a collaboration between Spyderco and the custom maker. We built the knife as he designed it. We used the steel of his choice. While some might have designed it differently or used a different steel, We followed Pekka's choice. The Bushcraft is 01 because the designer Chris Claycomb chose 01.



Regarding the price / Taiwan / US workers: The steel is made in America by Crucible (Syracuse, NY). The AZ Ironwood does in fact come from Arizona, cut and processed by US workers. By the time we ship steel to Taiwan, do the import/export work, shipping costs, duties, etc, The cost to build is maybe a tad less than if we were to produce it in our US factory.

Taiwan is capable of very good quality and not a cheap as many think.

sal

Hi Jeff, Mt Airy,

Welcome to the Spyderco forums.

While we are always growing our US facility, we also make knives in the countries mentioned above. Finding makers good enough is a problem for us, so we'll take them wherever we can find them. We've tried many over the past 30 years and still only have a few. Have to kiss a lot of toads to find a prince. We are fortunate to have the makers that we work with. Each maker also has their production capacity, so often, models have to wait.

sal

Hi Moving Target,

Sorry for your disappointment. Spyerco 's Golden factory has production ramped up as much as possible. If fact, we are making more US knives than ever before. We're buying more equipment as quickly as possible. Most of our models are still growing in demand. When a new model like the Yo 2 is introduced, demand exceeds production capacity for a while.

 

[nuckingfuts]

Cant wait for this knife to come out!

 

[mattmanyam]

But I always equate overseas production with value.

Not trying to be a jerk, but this quote (from the other thread), is where the misunderstanding lies..


See KNaBs post above, and the other one with Sals statements about his pricing methodology for reference.

ETA: Kreoles post, #54 being the "other" post.

 

[KNaB]

Not trying to be a jerk, but this quote (from the other thread), is where the misunderstanding lies..


See KNaBs post above, and the other one with Sals statements about his pricing methodology for reference.

ETA: Kreoles post, #54 being the "other" post.

Aside from pricing methodology, I posted those quotes to illustrate the point that spyderco doesn't use overseas makers as a means to larger profits, but rather as a necessary compromise in order to get their wares into the hands of customers due to Golden's limited, but growing, production ability. Now, I don't know Sal personally, but he seems a very sincere fellow and I've never heard or read anything otherwise that would dissuade me from believing as much. One last quote because I think it is indicative of type of man that Sal is.

BM makes a good knife, and I applaud their USA made agenda. Each company in general and knife companies in particular are making their product to serve their market to the best of their abilities.

sal

 

[mattmanyam]

KNaB-
That was precisely the point i was trying to convey.

I also applaud Sal/Spydercos transparency.

While I appreciate PURPLEDCs desire to have the "Pride of Ownership" that comes with buying Made in USA...I also recognize that Sal and co. are doing a great job at bringing us the best products they can, while supporting the US economy as much as they can. Its definitely a tough topic. (For the record, I own ZT and BM, as well...)

 

[Ankerson]

Listen guys, you got me wrong. I dont mind that its a taiwan made knife. I own a few import knives because usually they are a good bargain. But what I dont agree with is making something in taiwan or china and charging the same price as a knife made in america. There are a couple other companies that come to mind that produce both in the USA and overseas. The difference is that those companies price their product accordingly. If any of you think that producing something in Taiwan is anything other than cost cutting and increasing profit margins then your diluting yourself. Now people can act like a Spydie fanboy all they want. The fact of the matter is that positive feedback is not the only feedback that helps a company understand the demand of the public. But some of you have made it perfectly clear that you will swallow whatever spyderco feeds you. Hope you like the taste of chinese because it looks like your gonna be eating a lot of it. The funny thing is though is your gonna be eating ramen noodles on a steak budget. Enjoy!

Taiwan and China aren't the same....... HUGE Mistake thinking they are the same....

Taiwan has the same or better standards of living as we do here and the wages are comparable.

Taiwan produces some extremely high quality products, as good or better than many that are made here in the US.

 

[Ankerson]

So I get all excited because Spyderco finally comes and decides to release a flipper folder. YAY!!! then I see its Made in Taiwan? Ok so that was a little disappointing but then im like, so what? It will be cheaper and I can buy a couple instead of one. Then I see that the pre order price on these things is over $250. WTF? Sorry guys but I wont pay $250 for a CRKT and I aint gonna pay that much for a Taiwan knife even if there is a hole in the blade. I hate to say it Spyderco but If your trying to compete in the bearing operated flipper folder world, that was an epic fail. Come on Sal, quit taking plays out of the lynn thompson play book.

Spyderco and CRKT aren't the same at all, apples and oranges here big time...

The Manufacturers set the standards, that would be Spyderco that sets the standard of quality that needs to be met and the Factory in Taiwan can produce that level of quality that Spyderco demands.

 

[Wharn]

If you don't like it then no one is forcing you to buy it. The fit and finish on the models out of Taiwan are outstanding. Buy a Sage and see for yourself.

 

[rattler12]

Not the first time i've seen an anti-Taiwan knife position, nor is is the first time i've seen someone fail so miserably at explaining their viewpoint.

 

[The Mastiff]

Jesus christ, once again! missing the point. Do you guys want to know why Spyderco fans have a reputation as "fanboys"? its because ANY time someone questions the company and their practices its like pitbulls fighting over a dead puppy. ITS NOT THAT ITS MADE OVERSEAS. ITS BECAUSE ITS NOT PRICED IN ACCORDANCE WITH A PRODUCT MADE IN TAIWAN. Got it? probably not. You probably only saw, "he disagreed with me, attack again" like a friggin robot.

Who the heck is being the "friggin robot" here? It's funny, when you have no argument, no maneuvering room left and you keep repeating the same mistakes over and over just fall back to name calling. Trolls are very predictable. Having a couple thousand posts certainly doesn't mean you aren't trolling here.

Your posts could be used as a teaching moment on recognizing your classic troll responses going right down the ladder of ignorance, to name calling, no where else to go, painted into a corner , might as well go out in a ball of flame . Just about now I can't think of anything else you would be good for. You have demonstrated an inability to learn or even take in new information as if learning.

Notice purpledc , that you are gaining more and more forumites attention, first trying to correct you respectfully, then pointing out your obvious flaws as time goes on and you seem to neither learn, or attempt to learn or improve areas you are shown to be lacking in. Do you honestly believe it's because they are all "fanboys"?

Yeah, Im a troll.

We are aware of that. It was pretty obvious very early. First post in this thread in fact.

How many trolls do you know that last on this forum for 5 years and over 2000 posts. Maybe if you had more than 50 you would know more about this forum and how quick people get banned if all they were doing is trying to cause trouble.

Whether you always act this way or you save your best for us is completely irrelevant. There are a bunch of people here that come here and act like horse's a$$e$ for reasons known only to them. As long as they don't cross a certain line they can go on, and on......

Have you learned anything about Spyderco, or Taiwan yet?

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I have to agree with the OP. I am grieviously disappointed with Spyderco for not doing precisely what I, personally, want.

 

[JNewell]

QFH.

Yeah, Im a troll. How many trolls do you know that last on this forum for 5 years and over 2000 posts. Maybe if you had more than 50 you would know more about this forum and how quick people get banned if all they were doing is trying to cause trouble. Not many last time I checked. I was called a troll way before I made those comments. So just remember who threw the first stone. Bottom line is that this is a forum of many opinions. If we all agreed on the same things this would be a very boring place. If we as a society dont speak up when we think a company is making a mistake then that is sending them a message that we agree with their methods. In this case I dont agree that a taiwan knife warrants a $250+ street price. And Im not a troll for thinking so and voicing that opinion. By forum definitions, Im not a troll, but you certainly are a newb.



Yes a japanese dish utilizing chinese style wheat noodles...... See I can use wikipedia too.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

I wonder if the OP, and the others who agree, would be happy if the knife was made in the US and cost $300 street price.

He also keeps bringing up Kershaw and the 0560 so I wonder if he rather the knife be made in the US and all profits from it's sale go to Japan, or the knife made in Taiwan and all profits coming to the US (to a company that likes to donate money to multiple good causes in it's community).

The knife is priced in accordance to how much it cost to make, not your preconceived notions of the country of origin. Why is that so difficult?

 

[Chipped Karambit]

anyone think that Op just needs to do some barrel rolls in his Prius and go back to messing around at a coffee shop. I feel this thread has been closed because if you read all the post, there is no point left unproven. only thing proven was that spyderco is a transparent and highly ethical company with concern for america but is at its factory compacity

 

[PURPLEDC]

By your logic, the Spyderco Brad Southard Folder is a Taiwan-manufactured knife designed by an American knifemaker for an American company, and if you want to hold Ramen to China, the Brad Southard Folder is far more American than you complain about. I also never questioned your ability to use Wikipedia.

I don't have a bone to pick with you, purpledc, but a little courtesy goes far in changing people's opinions. You speak highly of a forum where we can respectfully voice our various opinions, and I assume you want to see some sort of change by voicing yours, but you don't seem to be winning favors in this thread with your demeanor despite however many respectable points you make and I think you're getting farther from making any positive change.

You know what your right. But your one of the first people to actually explain your self intelligently and in a non aggressive manner. The majority of the people in this thread were simply trying to be quick and witty without much regard either. Bad on me for falling for it and getting involved in a pissing contest but again, I didnt throw the first insult out into the playing field. I was expressing concern and irritation that a knife made in taiwan is costing just as much as a comparable product made in the states. Thats all im getting at. Regardless of the politics of the respective countries. Taiwan production is a means to cut costs. It has been brought up that Taiwan workers get paid more than most USA workers and we are more on a level playing field than Id like to believe. What I dont understand about that is the fact that almost every other company I see producing products out of that region keeps prices down. Maybe one day there will be a cause and a need for a $325 MSRP Taiwan production folder but I think its a bit of a stretch to say we are there now. And lets say the quality is on par with what can be made in the USA. Lets say they are every bit as good as the USA made stuff. If its actually just as expensive to make in taiwan then why bother. Some are saying they are just as good, others are saying they are better. Well if its better then why manufacture ANYTHING in the USA? Shouldnt spyderco just close down the USA factory and help expand the Taiwan production facility? I do apologize for my tone in my previous posts. And Id like to thank you for bringing me back down. But please understand I felt like I was getting bullied and a persons first instinct in that situation is to fight back.

 

[KNaB]

You know what your right. But your one of the first people to actually explain your self intelligently and in a non aggressive manner. The majority of the people in this thread were simply trying to be quick and witty without much regard either. Bad on me for falling for it and getting involved in a pissing contest but again, I didnt throw the first insult out into the playing field. I was expressing concern and irritation that a knife made in taiwan is costing just as much as a comparable product made in the states. Thats all im getting at. Regardless of the politics of the respective countries. Taiwan production is a means to cut costs. It has been brought up that Taiwan workers get paid more than most USA workers and we are more on a level playing field than Id like to believe. What I dont understand about that is the fact that almost every other company I see producing products out of that region keeps prices down. Maybe one day there will be a cause and a need for a $325 MSRP Taiwan production folder but I think its a bit of a stretch to say we are there now. And lets say the quality is on par with what can be made in the USA. Lets say they are every bit as good as the USA made stuff. If its actually just as expensive to make in taiwan then why bother. Some are saying they are just as good, others are saying they are better. Well if its better then why manufacture ANYTHING in the USA? Shouldnt spyderco just close down the USA factory and help expand the Taiwan production facility? I do apologize for my tone in my previous posts. And Id like to thank you for bringing me back down. But please understand I felt like I was getting bullied and a persons first instinct in that situation is to fight back.

Did you read any of my post with the quotes from Sal? Most, if not all, of your questions are pretty much answered there as well as in the posts of numerous forumites in this thread.

Take care,

 

[PURPLEDC]

Did you read any of my post with the quotes from Sal? Most, if not all, of your questions are pretty much answered there as well as in the posts of numerous forumites in this thread.

Take care,

I just went through all of that. Id like to thank you for posting it as it was very informative and it did actually answer many of my questions. Judging by what Sal wrote, I get the impression that they didnt just choose any old manufacturer in taiwan to produce the knife. And I also gather that it had more to do with production limitations rather than cost cutting which would also explain the use of higher quality USA produced materials rather than using what was readily available overseas. I take it as, "if you guys want the knife, this is how we had to do it". And with costs generally being the same and the hoops needed to be jumped through there really is no way to lower the price.

Again guys I apologize and It is a lot more clear to me and it makes much more sense. And with now that the initial shock of a $250 taiwan knife has waned and i can think about it with a clearer mind (and with more facts) I realize that it isnt such a big deal after all. I forget just how much of the work is done by machines. And if the end result is a good knife then thats really all that matters. A CNC in Taiwan is just as good as a CNC in the USA. I get it now and thank you for teaching me about this.

Just please understand that i wasnt coming here trying to pick a fight. Im a bearing flipper nut and love this design of knife. And im always excited when I see a new production version hit the market. In this instance for the last couple years ive had people ask me and recommend that I get a spyderco. Ive always said that while I thought they were good knives they simply didnt make anything that I was interested in. So when I heard this knife was going to be made I was very excited. Then I saw the price and said "ok, not great but its doable. And its gotta be usa with those materials and cost" Then I see the made in taiwan part and I guess it was shell shock. And again please accept my apology. The good thing for me is after I saw that I was dead set on NOT buying the knife. But after being "owned" and "schooled" on the subject. I think this one is still gonna be on the radar of a knife to buy. Even if its gonna be hard for me to put out that kind of money for a Taiwan knife, lol.

 

[NOREAT]

So from what I read in this thread, and I may be wrong, Spyderco doesn't have the production capability to build all of their knives in their Golden factory, so they outsourced. They decided on Taiwan to make all the high-end production folders they don't have the capacity to. With this in mind, it makes perfect sense to me why they would charge US-made prices. I see the OP has come to a similar conclusion. I may just get that Gayle Bradley now.