2nd Amendment

[Munchi Kool]

3) a cautionary tale from Australia's experience.

If the laws had not been changed I would still have my rifles.

First to go were my semi auto .22lr Brno and Norinco M1A1 in 7.62 which were banned out right due to their type.

Next went the bolt actions due to the high costs of meeting new safe keeping requirements. These were all either target or hunting rifles.

Gone due to a political decision I did not agree with but with which I followed because its the law of the land. I hope it never happens to any of you ...

 

[hollowdweller]

You don't know much about Obama's history do you?

Sure do. That's why I'm voting for him and have sent him several hundred dollars.

Not afraid of any significant gun control passing under an Obama administration actually so I'm free to vote on the economy, foreign policy.

If you look at the majority of dems who were swept into office in 06, as well as the majority who are going to give them a filibuster proof margin in the senate most are pro gun. That's how they are winning in these formerly red states.

With the GOP gaining total control of both houses of congress, the presidency and the supremes they were able to put most of their ideas into action.

However after 8 years, 2 wars, massive debt and deficit , corruption etc the majority of the conservative philosophy has been discredited. About the only thing they stood for that still has broad public appeal is the second amendment, and I SURE am glad they packed the court so Heller got the :thumbup: because that is the one bright spot in 8 years of running the country into the ground?

But I am interested to see who will reinvigorate the party.

Like somebody said Ron Paul really generated a lot of excitement. I think most people are pretty libertarian, but I'm not sure they are willing to accept a total libertarian philosophy since in a lot of ways the hands off thing resulted in the banking melt down.

I see somebody like Mike Huckabee as a real bright star for the party. He is more populist than say McCain but would resonate well with the religiously conservative elements in the party.

I don't see much future in the corporate candidates like Romney or Guliani.

Despite her lack of knowledge of almost every aspect of governing and world events I can see Sarah Palin being the new standard bearer with a little work. I mean Reagan was essentially recruited and trained by backers and I think with some schooling Palin could be a leading figure in the party.

It was interesting watching the Democratic Party recover after running out of ideas and being corrupt from being in power too long. Will be interesting to see the GOP do the same.

 

[Thomas Linton]

The Supreme Court affirmed an individual's right to bear arms BY THE MARGIN OF JUSTICES APPOINTED BY REPUBLICANS.

The leadership of my party, the Democratic Party, has repeatedly affirmed: 1) that they do not recognize HD's individual right to bear arms; and 2) they will appoint Justices who agree with them.

Meanwhile, they propose to "regulate" firearms by putting sellers out of business through civil suits and restricting sale of "armored piercing ammunition" defined by ft. lbs, of muzzle energy to = 30.06; .308;
.223; all magnum rounds.

So nothing to worry about with these birds in control of the executive and legislative branches. They would not, for example, define a clip-fed semi-automatic rifle as an "assault weapon" -- would they -- again?

Those who expressly say they want to take away my God-given rights and, unlike the "last two years," WILL BE UNRESTRAINED BY THE VETO worry me some. If you think that I, and George Washington, are irrational in seeing government as a fearful servant and terrible master, so be it. However, I do not think of George as a particularly pants-wetting type and take the fear of Washington, Jefferson, Adams, and the rest as some comfort.

 

[STR]

The recent subscription from the NRA says Obama plans to restrict just about all hunting ammo and plans a 500% tax on firearms purchases. Think you know him huh? What a laugh. My best friend was his next door neighbor for over ten years. Not the house next door but the condo next door. He knows him and what he told me about some of their conversations out on the terrace of both their condos in the evenings as they spoke back and forth about their beliefs and differences politically as well as about gun rights, the Bill or Rights which are all just a piece of paper that by the very word 'Amendment' after each one means that he can amend it also anytime he needs to, were scary enough. That was before Obama was well known by anyone too. Over the years as he knew him he saw the guests the man had to his home as well. I'm sure you've heard all their names already in the news so I'll spare you all of them but I assure you they all have one thing in common. They are known even among supporters to be extremists. You know the names. Names like Ayers, Wright, Farrahkhan, Fattah, Brizinski, Lake, Power, Malley, and more. All of these folks endorse Obama and/or actively work on his campaign. Good company huh? The list goes on and can be traced back to his college days where he also only kept friends that were extremists from his college chums to his professors.

Yeah, there is nothing to fear from this guy.

STR

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I'm gonna try real hard not to get into social issues, taxes, war, etc. here...


The Second Amendment was affirmed by a 5-4 vote. It should have been a no-brainer.

Obama has openly stated that he is opposed to concealed carry. He has also stated that he would like to re-instate the "Assault Weapon Ban" permanently. His buddy Biden was bragging about being a co-founder of the Slime Bill while debating Sarah Palin. I'm not even getting into H.R 1022 or the evile "armor piercing" ammo issue. When has Obama NOT voted in favor of gun control? can anyone name one instance a gun control initiative was set in front of him that he was NOT in favor of?

Interestingly, I wonder why during this whole '08 Presidential debacle, no one has hardly mentioned gun control? Irregardless of a person's stance, it's a valid issue.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

Not afraid of any significant gun control passing under an Obama administration actually so I'm free to vote on the economy, foreign policy.

If you look at the majority of dems who were swept into office in 06, as well as the majority who are going to give them a filibuster proof margin in the senate most are pro gun. That's how they are winning in these formerly red states.

With the GOP gaining total control of both houses of congress, the presidency and the supremes they were able to put most of their ideas into action.

However after 8 years, 2 wars, massive debt and deficit , corruption etc the majority of the conservative philosophy has been discredited. About the only thing they stood for that still has broad public appeal is the second amendment, and I SURE am glad they packed the court so Heller got the :thumbup: because that is the one bright spot in 8 years of running the country into the ground?

HD, for me, the ultimate problem is that neither party can really bring things like spending under control, or prevent us from becoming entangled in foreign wars of various kinds. They are all just as susceptible to these things, they just call them different things.

We went to war under Dems, we've gone to war under Republicans. We've seen nat'l debt rise under both, seen recessions under both. I have equal lack of trust in both.

But one thing I know, and this is important to me; the Dems have worked to undermine a portion of the Constitution which millions of Americans (including you) enjoy and exercise every day, and the Republicans (generally) have not.

Owning weapons is a very rare thing, enjoyed by very few humans. It is at least a symbolic measure of personal freedom and autonomy, and I VALUE that, highly!

It may seem simplistic, it may seem like single issue voting, but for me at least, it is far more complicated and meaningful than that.

Andy

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

Interestingly, I wonder why during this whole '08 Presidential debacle, no one has hardly mentioned gun control? Irregardless of a person's stance, it's a valid issue.

I guarantee you; if Obama wins four years, he will very likely get eight. And if you don't see a rejuvination of the AWB or something similar in the first four years, you WILL in the last four.

Andy

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I guarantee you; if Obama wins four years, he will very likely get eight. And if you don't see a rejuvination of the AWB or something similar in the first four years, you WILL in the last four.

Andy

I hope you're wrong, but I can already here it "Obama is going to need another term to fix all the damage done by that darned old George Bush..."

I don't think they're going to waste any time getting started on gun control. Clinton didn't. But....of course we all remember what happened to his Democratically controlled Congress right afterwards...

 

[KenM K]

The recent subscription from the NRA says Obama plans to restrict just about all hunting ammo and plans a 500% tax on firearms purchases. Think you know him huh? What a laugh. My best friend was his next door neighbor for over ten years. Not the house next door but the condo next door. He knows him and what he told me about some of their conversations out on the terrace of both their condos in the evenings as they spoke back and forth about their beliefs and differences politically as well as about gun rights, the Bill or Rights which are all just a piece of paper that by the very word 'Amendment' after each one means that he can amend it also anytime he needs to, were scary enough. That was before Obama was well known by anyone too. Over the years as he knew him he saw the guests the man had to his home as well. I'm sure you've heard all their names already in the news so I'll spare you all of them but I assure you they all have one thing in common. They are known even among supporters to be extremists. You know the names. Names like Ayers, Wright, Farrahkhan, Fattah, Brizinski, Lake, Power, Malley, and more. All of these folks endorse Obama and/or actively work on his campaign. Good company huh? The list goes on and can be traced back to his college days where he also only kept friends that were extremists from his college chums to his professors.

Yeah, there is nothing to fear from this guy.

STR

Lately the NRA hasn't exactly been known as the most reliable source of info. I would not take anything they write as being a fact. It's sad because of course the NRA will say everything that is wrong with Obama Unions will tell you everything that is wrong with McCain. It's your obligation to do your own research before you vote instead if being a lemming and following what you are told by an obviously bias group. It goes both ways for both people running. i wish the media was held to the standard to only report facts and not opinions.

 

[kronckew]

all i know is that the right to own weapons is the right to be free. defending that right is like defending your daughter's virginity, you can do it time after time, until one slick-talkin' bstd breaches the defences, then it's gone forever and it'll never come back. if you are lucky, he'll shake your hand and kiss her on the cheek before he leaves y'all to your newly amended state of the union...

 

[Eric006]

Alex Kozinski, born in Romania to two Holocaust survivors, is a Judge on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. In 2002, in a case entitled Silveira v. Lockyer, the Ninth Circuit held that the Second Amendment did not provide for an individual right to keep and bear arms. A petition for a rehearing of this decision was filed, but ultimately denied. Judge Kozinski issued a dissenting opinion.

I found this excerpt from Judge Kozinski's opinion particularly enlightening:

My excellent colleagues have forgotten these bitter lessons of history. The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid stories of gun crime routinely do. But few saw the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed—where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once.

Eric

 

[Fiddleback]

Just remember that the GOP runs on fear.

So they want you to be afraid.

The Supremes just affirmed the second but you guys are still so afraid.

Five to four with all your presciuous liberal judges voting against! Lets be clear about the fear, and it being totaly justified. What a misleading post.:thumbdn:

 

[Fiddleback]

Not afraid of any significant gun control passing under an Obama administration actually so I'm free to vote on the economy, foreign policy.

He has no foreign policy experience, and no economic ideas that have merit. corporations don't pay taxes, they pass their taxes and other expenses onto consumers. His windfall tax will be a tax on the lower classes. His medical plan is ludicrous and will bankrupt and already messed up system.

Don't vote for Obama. Here is why:

1. Anti 2nd amendment
2. Pro-UN -- plans to surrender a great amount of our soverignty to the UN
3. No experience.
4. Too much power to any 1 party
5. Liberal Judges
6. More wasted $ to no child gets ahead act
7. Companies less competitive due to higher tax burden which will lead to higher prices across the board, and less job opportunity
8. Socialized medicine is a failed policy worldwide, and though our healthcare system needs fixing badly this isn't the answer.
9. He and his wife are racists. Lets not vote for white racists. Lets not vote for black racists either.
10. Just because GW Bush has been a failure, lets not over correct and send the country to hell with this socialist agenda.
11. Because re-distribution of the wealth, which he believes in, is not capatolist, and anti-American as hell.
12. Because even his VP says the world is going to test his foreign policy weakness, why chance that he gets it right?


Its not about fear HD, though fear is justified, its about using your vote intelligently.

 

[Fiddleback]

With the GOP gaining total control of both houses of congress, the presidency and the supremes they were able to put most of their ideas into action.

However after 8 years, 2 wars, massive debt and deficit , corruption etc the majority of the conservative philosophy has been discredited.

Unfortunately, this is misleading also. They actually didn't use their power to put very many of our ideas into action at all. They were an abject failure, spent like Democrats, swelled govt, enacted socialist education legislation, on and on. So we voted them out. That was intellectually honest.

You used to say that consolidating power in one party was dangerous and scary, but you're gung ho for it to be your side now. Even though they're going to limit free speech, first thing with that stupid fairness doctrine. Poor liberals, can't just change the radio station, have to have everything on the airwaves pleasing to their ears. Hail Obama, the savior, and your stooge. But not mine. My eyes are open.

 

[richardallen]

Surely there is a political forum, isnt there?

Interestingly, Esav's post was so far completely ignored...

Keno

 

[Fiddleback]

All he said was that the original message came from a chain mail.

I love when folks down a thread because they don't like its content rather than just skipping it. Another vote to silence the voices of dissent huh?

 

[fivefold]

Yea. What he said.:thumbup:

And yet another on the boat with you.

 

[richardallen]

All he said was that the original message came from a chain mail.

No, he said it came from an inaccurante chain mail, and that it would serve the purpose better, if one had actual arguements that are accurate and true. At least that's what I understood.

shane started something about the importance of the 2nd ammendment, and some started posting valueable things like "vote obama" oder "vote mccain". adds much to the discussion, dont it

Maybe I oughta have skipped it, but I found the /original/ topic interesting...sorry

Keno

 

[Karda]

You know what is most discouraging to me about these elections and all the politicising as of late?

I've ,as have alot of people have, had friendships both short and longstanding, damaged by all of this BS. It is one reason why i prefer not to talk about politics and such and only with people i personally know will respect my views and remain my friends.

Friendships are very precious things and in the end we must put things into perspective and agree to disagree.

 

[Fiddleback]

Though my post was short, you missed it. What I responded was: Vote against Obama. Its short, and sweet. It says that his policies are wrong, ludicrously wrong, for our country, and please vote for anyone else.

Later in the thread I wrote 12 ways he is wrong for the country. But you don't want to discuss those, you want to point to the first post and trash the whole thread. Boy thats an easy way to keep from having to face the truth.

You find the topic interesting, but you trash the thread as misplaced. You can see how someone is confused I'd guess.

(Hey, BTW, I miss having these debates with you Keno.)