$3,495? Just trying to learn why

SharpieB said:
Would any of you EDC a $3500 knife for regular to hard use? Just curious as I would expect many of these “custom masterpieces” spend their lives in safes or display cases....
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Well yes. That is partially what started this whole thread. A retired Green Beret was selling his 9" bladed Walter Brend he used for 23 years in SF for around $1,800, then I saw the new one for $3,500, and the first guy had stated the following:

"This knife was purchased in Late Nov 1985 and used hard until it was refinished by Walter in 1991 when I met him at a gunshow in Fayetteville. He sent it back to me and it saw light use until I retired in 2008. I think I was lucky to have gone through the Q course before they began handing out other knives, because the Brend is a better blade. This knife is on its 3rd sheath. The original sheath and two leather ones wore out and it is in an old Gerber sheath modified to ride higher. It also has a retaining band for when I jumped with it. It had pitted up on one deployment and I had Brend refinish it in the early 90s and he put his mark on the other side of the blade and you can still see an outline of the original mark. It also had black paint on the blade at one point."

9"BlWalterBrend1985.jpg
 
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Douglas Wever said:
Well yes. That is partially what started this whole thread. A retired Green Beret was selling his 9" bladed Walter Brend he used for 23 years in SF for around $1,800, then I saw the new one for $3,500, and the first guy had stated the following:

"This knife was purchased in Late Nov 1985 and used hard until it was refinished by Walter in 1991 when I met him at a gunshow in Fayetteville. He sent it back to me and it saw light use until I retired in 2008. I think I was lucky to have gone through the Q course before they began handing out other knives, because the Brend is a better blade. This knife is on its 3rd sheath. The original sheath and two leather ones wore out and it is in an old Gerber sheath modified to ride higher. It also has a retaining band for when I jumped with it. It had pitted up on one deployment and I had Brend refinish it in the early 90s and he put his mark on the other side of the blade and you can still see an outline of the original mark. It also had black paint on the blade at one point."

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That is just fricking gorgeous! I'm not yet a fixed blade guy but this thread is making me rethink this.
 
Douglas Wever said:
Well yes. That is partially what started this whole thread. A retired Green Beret was selling his 9" bladed Walter Brend he used for 23 years in SF for around $1,800, then I saw the new one for $3,500, and the first guy had stated the following:

"This knife was purchased in Late Nov 1985 and used hard until it was refinished by Walter in 1991 when I met him at a gunshow in Fayetteville. He sent it back to me and it saw light use until I retired in 2008. I think I was lucky to have gone through the Q course before they began handing out other knives, because the Brend is a better blade. This knife is on its 3rd sheath. The original sheath and two leather ones wore out and it is in an old Gerber sheath modified to ride higher. It also has a retaining band for when I jumped with it. It had pitted up on one deployment and I had Brend refinish it in the early 90s and he put his mark on the other side of the blade and you can still see an outline of the original mark. It also had black paint on the blade at one point."

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Wow. Can't believe he let that go with all of the history behind it. Someone from his unit should buy that and put it on display..or even start using it again...
 
Aias said:
OK, I'll put this out there and am willing to learn, if you are willing to teach (and I'll love these blades regardless)...

Here are my two Randalls, a 5-6 and a 12-9 14; they were bought to be used hiking and camping, so I opted for single quillion, as that suits me best. The balance on the 12-9 is a little tip heavy in normal grip, and neutral when held with the choil. There is a distal taper, but nothing too dramatic--which is fine, my needs are not for a fighter/ kabober of organs per se, but rather for enough tip strength to do some light prying, carving, making divots, etc...

These two have clean lines and well made jimping (unlike photo above); while I recognize the attention to detail and exceedingly precise craftsmanship of the Brend, Bagwell, and other knives posted, the notion that these are crude production knives, I contend, is erroneous... again, respectfully. The 12-9 is a non-catalog knife, and it's options arguably make it a custom (it even has a compass in the butt). Even the 5-6 is somewhat custom, as the model 5 has to be ordered with blade length (among other things) specified by the buyer.

Now, did I buy these because they were Randalls, and thus paid more for the name, idea, legacy, history, etc. Sure. Would I buy the Brend, maybe, but not that one... if it had a single quillion, slightly different blade profile, desert ironwood scales, and was marked by the Stars and Stripes instead of the Stars and Bars (I've had too many family members and friends serve the Stars and Stripes to fly any other colors), maybe... but then again, I just got all I was looking for with the Randalls. So, I'm good.

The refinements that you will likely point out, and likely rightly so, may mark the finer points of construction... but the finer points do not translate into value added for me, thus, I pass. The case is otherwise for those particular Randalls. My only issue is the term "crude" (or production knife for that matter) applied to the Randalls. I just do not find it accurate (but no offense taken, once again)... just being honest as well.

Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics:
skNF7VS.jpg


7a4Z7dC.jpg


What would you say about this one form Lon Humphrey?

NkM2nAu.jpg
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You have two very nice Randall’s and I wish all Randall’s looked as good

As for Lon Humphreys work I like it very much

Most of the knives I buy these days are users and I’ve been leaning toward micarta for a decade almost

For finishes I prefer finishers that are more user oriented but I still like to see crisp grinds and and clean fit

One of my favorite pieces of recent years is this Smatchet from Rick Marchand



As you can see it’s far from fancy and definitely a user

While it’s clearly a user and left raw it is a wonderful feeling knife and performs very well

This is a piece that just came in from a great Maker in Spain named Miguel Barbudo

It’s one of his El Bravos



I asked him to do a Tapered tang and this was his first go at one



I love encouraging makers to do things that will improve the quality of their blades as in balance and feel

He was very pleased with the result and is going to be doing more tapered tangs

As you can see it is far from fancy but well done and a definite carry piece

Another user from my good friend David Mirabile that is my current favorite edc and one of my all time favorites

MIRABILE COMBAT UTILITY



While not overly fancy extremely well done with great details






Here is the only knife I brought back from Blade

It’s a John Gray Wharncliff that we are doing a project on

I used it the whole show for booth setup etc and it’s also clearly a user and not to pretty in the finish department but clean and simply well done



What all these knives have in common is they are well done and designed and built to also be users
 
JParanee said:
You have two very nice Randall’s and I wish all Randall’s looked as good

As for Lon Humphreys work I like it very much

Most of the knives I buy these days are users and I’ve been leaning toward micarta for a decade almost

For finishes I prefer finishers that are more user oriented but I still like to see crisp grinds and and clean fit

One of my favorite pieces of recent years is this Smatchet from Rick Marchand



As you can see it’s far from fancy and definitely a user

While it’s clearly a user and left raw it is a wonderful feeling knife and performs very well

This is a piece that just came in from a great Maker in Spain named Miguel Barbudo

It’s one of his El Bravos



I asked him to do a Tapered tang and this was his first go at one



I love encouraging makers to do things that will improve the quality of their blades as in balance and feel

He was very pleased with the result and is going to be doing more tapered tangs

As you can see it is far from fancy but well done and a definite carry piece

Another user from my good friend David Mirabile that is my current favorite edc and one of my all time favorites

MIRABILE COMBAT UTILITY



While not overly fancy extremely well done with great details






Here is the only knife I brought back from Blade

It’s a John Gray Wharncliff that we are doing a project on

I used it the whole show for booth setup etc and it’s also clearly a user and not to pretty in the finish department but clean and simply well done



What all these knives have in common is they are well done and designed and built to also be users
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Dear Joe,

Thanks for your reply, and the kind words about my knives. Thanks too for posting these new pics--the Smatchet and the El Bravo are my favorites of the bunch. I've had the good fortune to try tapered tang knives lately--a Brute from Lon, a couple of Fiddlebacks, and a Winkler II Field Knife. I'm pretty sold on their superiority (over full, exposed/ non-tapered tangs) in terms of feel, balance, and weight. I'll gladly pay a little extra for that feature. I've also learned that hidden tangs done well are both durable and comfortable--and aesthetically pleasing, at least to my hand and eye. I got tired of the heavier full/ exposed tang sharpened pry-bar type knives I was first convinced were a necessity for outdoor use; they may be absolute beasts, and they garner a lot of love on BF, but I personally have moved on. On the other hand, I've returned to the bowies you posted earlier (particularly the Wheeler) and have admired it a great deal.

Again, thanks for your response.
Anthony

PS--I just watched a video of you cutting tatami with the Wheeler... that was very cool. I trained too, and cutting tatami with such ease is pretty impressive.
 
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Aias said:
Dear Joe,

Thanks for your reply, and the kind words about my knives. Thanks too for posting these new pics--the Smatchet and the El Bravo are my favorites of the bunch. I've had the good fortune to try tapered tang knives lately--a Brute from Lon, a couple of Fiddlebacks, and a Winkler II Field Knife. I'm pretty sold on their superiority (over full, exposed/ non-tapered tangs) in terms of feel, balance, and weight. I'll gladly pay a little extra for that feature. I've also learned that hidden tangs done well are both durable and comfortable--and aesthetically pleasing, at least to my hand and eye. I got tired of the heavier full/ exposed tang sharpened pry-bar type knives I was first convinced were a necessity for outdoor use; they may be absolute beasts, and they garner a lot of love on BF, but I personally have moved on. On the other hand, I've returned to the bowies you posted earlier (particularly the Wheeler) and have admired it a great deal.

Again, thanks for your response.
Anthony
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Thank you and I appreciate the interaction

It’s a shame that more of Nicks work is not available

His drive for blade perfection was greatly appreciated by many

We did a run of Fighters that was the little brother to the Bowie and they too were great knives







This is the only Damascus one

 
Douglas Wever said:
Well it's still for sale, https://www.arizonacustomknives.com/index.php/gear-accessories/accessory-1/brend-walter/189307.html
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Honestly, my explanation and rationale is similar to Ray’s: I look at man hours. I will never be able to justify spending 3500$ on a knife, honestly. I think, personally, it’s an obscene waste of money as there are options at a lower cost that perform as well(I’ll stick with my Laserstrike). But, I can see man hours as a methodology for pricing a knife so high as justification. The Randall is largely machine made, less by hand. If you consider how many are being made, I would assume the sales price of each blade probably fits into a $/hour that goes toward paying one or multiple employees while making a small profit. With Brend and his ilk, you do factor in materials which may be a couple hundred dollars. Say the labor cost works out to be 3k after materials and power, etc. That excludes any overhead(building rental, insurance, whatever). Maybe overhead is really low. Perhaps overhead is 400$ a month. Say he makes that knife over the course of a 40 hours or so. Hell, let’s go even further and say 80 hours. You’ve got 2500$ divided by 80 hours. If all that works out-who knows if it does, honestly-then the guy is making 31$/hour for his work on that knife. Seems reasonable to me to price it around there if that’s what he’s putting in. Still too rich for my blood, but that’s how I see it.

For the record, the attitude that’s come out of this thread toward you and your question is a bit over the top. People are touchy about the things they buy and will go to any length to defend the purchase to someone who may not agree with that level frivolity. And that’s what this hobby is, mostly. I think it’s reasonable to see something and want to recognize what makes it valuable. People just need to take things less personally.
 
Shotgun said:
What something is worth is up to the individual. For instance, I have no idea why randalls are $900. :confused:
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Because they aren't. The standard Randall knives go from around $300 to around $600. Most are between $400 + $500. The model1 lists for $405, not bad when Kabars are around $100.

They become pricey when they have provenance, or have exotic materials.

The secret to buying anything is to realize what you are paying for. A $2 knife with a $10,000 diamond in the pommel, would be legitimately worth $10,002 but would still cut like a $2 knife. This is an extreme example, but most things fall somewhere in between.

This has been an enlightening thread for me. Thanks for the civil discussion. Ed
 
OK. How much is it worth to you to get the knife now?
In the free world this demands a premium. ;)
 
Honestly, my explanation and rationale is similar to Ray’s: I look at man hours.
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I read your post and personally- Walter Brend is working cheap.

$400 a month overhead? Where? If I get paid $30 an hour my burden rate is higher due to equipment and benefits. I just got a $10,000 fine pitch rework station- who pays for that?

You left out Skill, Talent, Experience, Investment in Equipment, Health Insurance etc..........
 
red mag said:
OK. How much is it worth to you to get the knife now?
In the free world this demands a premium. ;)
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Not sure if you were talking to me or not. There are Randall dealers ready to ship with no mark up. Buxton knives is one. Some have options, some don't, but you can go to Randall's web sight and price out the options and see there is no markup.

Other times it is nice to have to wait. When my kids turned 13 I had them "build" a Randall, placed the order and told them if they stick to the staight and narrow path. Stay out of trouble it will be their 18th birthday present. Nice thing is you lock in the current price.
 
It helps to have a little context; $3,500 is not out of line for a knife from a well known maker. There were thousands is similarly priced knives at blade, and that is not even counting the "art" knives. It comes down to collector interest and whatever the market will bear. Hour, materials and sunk costs may help to set the maker's initial price offering, but it has no bearing on the market. Collectors tend to buy knives that spark their interest, well known and popular models from well known and long established makers tend to top their lists. Crane, Hibbens, Lyle, Lovelace, Scagel....etc. are all sought after because they were a major influence on the industry. Often, they were the legendary knives that we read about as kids that we are now finally able to acquire.

Walter Brend was a major market leader during the 80s and 90s, he help to establish what we envisioned as the ultimate tactical knife, and his knives are still relevant today. It may not be made of the latest magical steel, or involve the latest CNC machining. But, they were serious knives intended for serious use. I have owned his knives in the past and would not hesitate to acquire one again given the opportunity.

n2s
 
You can’t justify the price difference based on a knife as a tool.

You can’t justify the price difference between a stunning photograph over the mantle and an original oil painting. They both “do” the same thing. Look nice.

You are paying for the hours of hand labor one person put into that specific knife and what he feels his time is worth. Then add desirability of people to own his knife.

The criteria is no longer “is it a better cutting tool”.
 
eveled eveled : good point.
Generally speaking, time is a factor that is reflected in the price.
So the price of a good consists of many factors.
 
braillediver said:
I read your post and personally- Walter Brend is working cheap.

$400 a month overhead? Where? If I get paid $30 an hour my burden rate is higher due to equipment and benefits. I just got a $10,000 fine pitch rework station- who pays for that?

You left out Skill, Talent, Experience, Investment in Equipment, Health Insurance etc..........
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Actually, if you read my post you would see I acknowledged things like equipment/building rental as well as insurance. It’s hard to measure skill, talent, and experience in an overhead capacity. Absolutely those impact the price. What I’m saying is we can take the tangible and create a cost-analysis using what he’s actually paying for. I picked 400$ arbitrarily simply for perspective. I simply removed all unknowns. For instance, I don’t know if Brend owns his tools and his shop or if he has a mortgage or if he’s renting. What I do know is that he pays for multiple different insurances(likely) and a power bill. But, again, you’re picking apart a number for no reason as the 400$ figure was 100% arbitrary.
 
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