4 New Tacticals- Pic Heavy

Serge Panchenko said:
Are all the makers out there making Loveless style blades 2nd or 3rd rate Bob Loveless makers then?
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IMO, the vast majority of them are.

And most of the rest are 4th rate Bob Loveless makers. :thumbdn:

And I have a fair number of their knives to prove it . . .

. . . and a few knives that were made by some of the few (IMO) first rate Bob Loveless makers. :thumbup:
 
Serge,

Thanks.

Had been posting a lot less lately, and this latest mess that I have caused has taught me that it would probably be better if I just stopped until I can really bring something of value to BladeForums again.

Have tried to better the knife community as a whole, but have also given into aspects of my most negative side, and that is what I am afraid I'll be remembered for(if remembered at all), and that is a terrible legacy.

I am truly sorry for even having written anything in this thread, but no, couldn't let you enjoy the praise. I had to tear it down, out of some misguided sense that it might be helpful in some way, you deserved better than that from a knife person....and others have gotten that treatment as well, so I apologize to all of those makers as well. Sad to say it came too little, too late

I've had my time. You and the others working so hard deserve your time. I'll see you next time we are both at a show.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
Serge,

Thanks.

Had been posting a lot less lately, and this latest mess that I have caused has taught me that it would probably be better if I just stopped until I can really bring something of value to BladeForums again.

Have tried to better the knife community as a whole, but have also given into aspects of my most negative side, and that is what I am afraid I'll be remembered for(if remembered at all), and that is a terrible legacy.

I am truly sorry for even having written anything in this thread, but no, couldn't let you enjoy the praise. I had to tear it down, out of some misguided sense that it might be helpful in some way, you deserved better than that from a knife person....and others have gotten that treatment as well, so I apologize to all of those makers as well. Sad to say it came too little, too late

I've had my time. You and the others working so hard deserve your time. I'll see you next time we are both at a show.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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That was very nice of you STeven. We all say and do things we wish we could take back.
 
Kohai999 said:
Serge,

Thanks.

Had been posting a lot less lately, and this latest mess that I have caused has taught me that it would probably be better if I just stopped until I can really bring something of value to BladeForums again.

Have tried to better the knife community as a whole, but have also given into aspects of my most negative side, and that is what I am afraid I'll be remembered for(if remembered at all), and that is a terrible legacy.

I am truly sorry for even having written anything in this thread, but no, couldn't let you enjoy the praise. I had to tear it down, out of some misguided sense that it might be helpful in some way, you deserved better than that from a knife person....and others have gotten that treatment as well, so I apologize to all of those makers as well. Sad to say it came too little, too late

I've had my time. You and the others working so hard deserve your time. I'll see you next time we are both at a show.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Whoa! Who are you and what have you done with STeven? All joking aside that statement oozed nothing but sincerity. No man likes to apologize and especially on a public forum. Not that you need validation from me but Steven, ya did good.
 
One of the nice things about the BF custom forum is that there is a much freer flow of ideas than other enthusiast websites.

Criticism is allowed here, and no doubt that makes some hesitant to post and turns others off. However, the other extreme of unadulterated "praise and worship of everything" is not that useful or interesting either.

Sometimes the bickering goes too far and other times it goes off the deep end like here.

I will never be mistaken for a big "steven fan" but he does have good taste in knives and a real passion for the hobby. Which is what it needs to grow and prosper, not more of the "beanie baby " knife flippers looking to make a buck. Most of them will be gone when the next fad hits.

As someone who is involved in mentoring and teaching medical students and residents, effective criticism is an art. Direct and blunt criticism, even when deserved, is often ineffective in this era (and yes, I think medical training is getting soft). I thought the" oreo method" of a presenting a positive , then the criticism , followed by another positive was silly when first introduced to it, but it really does work. Might be worth a try here
 
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The Virginian said:
IMO, the vast majority of them are.

And most of the rest are 4th rate Bob Loveless makers. :thumbdn:

And I have a fair number of their knives to prove it . . .

. . . and a few knives that were made by some of the few (IMO) first rate Bob Loveless makers. :thumbup:
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What about us 5th and 6th rate Bob Loveless makers?

Don't we get a mention?:D

Here's the thing that's always confused me....why does a STYLE of knife have to be a near perfect copy of the original?

Serge using the 'wrong' steel for his tactical and being a 2nd or 3rd rate Virgil England, etc is utter rubbish. I'm sure Serge used which steel he wanted and made it how he wanted....after all, the name on the blade clearly says 'Serge'.

I've had similar comments on here and other forums about my agricultural Loveless STYLE knives....wrong steel, wrong grind, wrong shape, wrong type of makers mark, wrong materials, wrong proportions, etc, etc.

I love making what I make, I like using the 'wrong' steel as I like to HT it myself. In any case, I don't always have the spare cash to use high end stainless then pay someone else to HT it for me, nor to buy the equipment to do it myself.

I flat grind as I only have a grinder with a flat platen, once again, not enough spare cash for a nice set up with various sized contact wheels.

As a result, you end up with a knife in roughly the same basic shape as a Loveless but certainly not even close to a Loveless/Lovett/Lin/Johnson/Vestal/Buchanan/Brown, etc (delete as applicable;))

I'm happy with what I make, as I'm sure Serge and all the other makers who post on here are with what they make....why else would we put them on here for all to see? If we were ashamed of them in any way we'd keep a huge stash of knives locked away out of sight wouldn't we?

People should take things for what they are, not what they think they should be.:)

Serge, my apologies for derailing your thread.:o

Ian
 
STeven has always been willing to man up and admit when he has overstepped. Few others are. For that - and a great many other reasons - he has my respect.

Roger
 
STeven,
Please see my reponse to your note to me in that "other" forum.
It takes a good man to apologise and try to right a wrong he's commited. For it you can be commended.
Peace be with you.
 
Sure, kumbya. It's easy to apologize, but it takes a warrior to change.
 
Steven is my friend and a great asset to the forum

I thought he was a bit rough on his comments

That was a sincere apologe Steven I commend you

Serge you acted like a gentlemen thru out

BTW I like your Kwaikens :)
 
Kohai999 said:
Serge,

Thanks.

Had been posting a lot less lately, and this latest mess that I have caused has taught me that it would probably be better if I just stopped until I can really bring something of value to BladeForums again.

Have tried to better the knife community as a whole, but have also given into aspects of my most negative side, and that is what I am afraid I'll be remembered for(if remembered at all), and that is a terrible legacy.

I am truly sorry for even having written anything in this thread, but no, couldn't let you enjoy the praise. I had to tear it down, out of some misguided sense that it might be helpful in some way, you deserved better than that from a knife person....and others have gotten that treatment as well, so I apologize to all of those makers as well. Sad to say it came too little, too late

I've had my time. You and the others working so hard deserve your time. I'll see you next time we are both at a show.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Now THAT is the way a man does it!

Might I suggest that for your upcoming bout :boxing: you choose chocolate/meringue pies at 5 paces? Should you do that, you would do well to spend some time studying the form and technique of the late Moe Howard, the premier pie-hurler of his era. It could be just the edge you need to emerge victorious. :D
 
I have been following the out of control downward spiral this thread has taken. I am heartened to see STeven take a step back to observe his actions and what they have wrought.
A sincere apology is the best way to move forward and STeven has my respect for coming out strong and attempting to make things right. I hope Marcus and STeven can work out their
differences in a civil manner. I'm sure they can!
 
Kohai999 said:
Serge,

Thanks.

Had been posting a lot less lately, and this latest mess that I have caused has taught me that it would probably be better if I just stopped until I can really bring something of value to BladeForums again.

Have tried to better the knife community as a whole, but have also given into aspects of my most negative side, and that is what I am afraid I'll be remembered for(if remembered at all), and that is a terrible legacy.

I am truly sorry for even having written anything in this thread, but no, couldn't let you enjoy the praise. I had to tear it down, out of some misguided sense that it might be helpful in some way, you deserved better than that from a knife person....and others have gotten that treatment as well, so I apologize to all of those makers as well. Sad to say it came too little, too late

I've had my time. You and the others working so hard deserve your time. I'll see you next time we are both at a show.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...
Takes a real man to be able to look at himself and judge his own actions!

I understand what you were saying and he can make a perfect mirror finish and so much more. But I understood that he meant to do those finishes and just enjoyed the overall feel. Just like hammer marks and other not perfect finishes. Hell i even enjoy the neo-tribal sometimes.
 
Crazy thread. Glad it all worked out. I was starting to worry about posting one of my knives in here. :P

Storm Crow said:
....When a guy who works in the same general style as I do posts a knife whose socket handle is only about 3/4 of the way closed and whose profile isn't cleaned up...
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Can you enlighten me as to what exactly you were saying here?
 
Kohai999 said:
Had been posting a lot less lately, and this latest mess that I have caused has taught me that it would probably be better if I just stopped until I can really bring something of value to BladeForums again.
Click to expand...

Well I really hope you don't stop. You may draw some negative attention with your criticisms but I, for one, have learned more from your criticisms, both of my own work and the work of others, than from most of the positive comments.
 
I also want to apologize to everyone for how this turned out. Everyone involved has embarrassed themselves.

However, over the past few days, I did receive at least two dozen e-mails, pm's and phone calls from other makers who have been hurt by Steven in the past; although they never wanted to say anything publicly because of the potential shitstorm that could happen, they told me they were thankful that I did ask him to stop.

Words can certainly hurt others in more ways than the person posting can imagine. There's a certain degree of "cold feet" when a person buys a custom knife over a factory offering due to the price and negative comments really can derail the progress of new makers especially. Plus, the internet forum is sort of like a public record of that person's work.

If there is a lesson in all of this bullshit, it is to respect the hard work and time of others -no matter how ugly or boring it is.

If people don't like what they see, they don't need to chime in and tear the maker down. Posters should follow the old adage "If you ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all." Collectors are not blind, they know what to look for. As for users, looks don't really matter as much, and most "using" knives are priced to be disposable anyway.

A few years ago, I took a knife with a hemp-cord wrapped handle to Riverside when I first met Bob in 2007 (it looked like a prison shank) -he didn't have a single negative word to say about it. Instead, he asked me questions, such as "Why did you do this? What kind of steel is this?" I left with more questions than answers on that trip, and a really good feeling. It's that feeling of encouragement that gives a maker confidence and motivation to try harder. Bob could really make a person feel like they could do anything -if he was in a good mood. I couldn't hollow grind correctly or mirror polish before going out to Riverside, Bob's positive encouragement changed that and I was grinding my first drop hunter within a year.

I remember sitting in Bob's office and asking him if he could autograph my copy of "How to Make Knives" on May 21st 2009. He flipped the old hardcover book (I have the first edition from 1977) over and pointed at the photos of each maker (who contributed to the book). One at a time, he said "Alive, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, he never made anything of himself." He then opened the inside cover and asked me what I would like him to write, I laughed and said "Something inspirational?" He replied "Well, I'm not one for inspiration, but ..." He paused and quietly started writing, closed the book and handed it to me. I didn't read it until I got home.

He wrote: "The longer you stay with it, the clearer you'll see it -and the better you'll do it."

The odds at success are already stacked against new makers -everyone should give these guys a chance. Let them "stay with it" so they will do better in time.

I also would be disheartened to see less of Steven on the forums. I do believe he has a lot to offer both makers and collectors. It's never too late for anyone.
 
Kohai999 said:
Serge,

Thanks.

Had been posting a lot less lately, and this latest mess that I have caused has taught me that it would probably be better if I just stopped until I can really bring something of value to BladeForums again.

Have tried to better the knife community as a whole, but have also given into aspects of my most negative side, and that is what I am afraid I'll be remembered for(if remembered at all), and that is a terrible legacy.

I am truly sorry for even having written anything in this thread, but no, couldn't let you enjoy the praise. I had to tear it down, out of some misguided sense that it might be helpful in some way, you deserved better than that from a knife person....and others have gotten that treatment as well, so I apologize to all of those makers as well. Sad to say it came too little, too late

I've had my time. You and the others working so hard deserve your time. I'll see you next time we are both at a show.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Stevie, you did a good thing good here, and that made me smile.

Brownshoe: You must not be very tall.

Paul
 
Steven- I'm surprised, impressed and pleased by your last post.
I'm looking forward to meeting you soon and have been told that you are much more fun in real life than in the internets.
 
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