4 New Tacticals- Pic Heavy

Serge,

Thanks.

Had been posting a lot less lately, and this latest mess that I have caused has taught me that it would probably be better if I just stopped until I can really bring something of value to BladeForums again.

Have tried to better the knife community as a whole, but have also given into aspects of my most negative side, and that is what I am afraid I'll be remembered for(if remembered at all), and that is a terrible legacy.

I am truly sorry for even having written anything in this thread, but no, couldn't let you enjoy the praise. I had to tear it down, out of some misguided sense that it might be helpful in some way, you deserved better than that from a knife person....and others have gotten that treatment as well, so I apologize to all of those makers as well. Sad to say it came too little, too late

I've had my time. You and the others working so hard deserve your time. I'll see you next time we are both at a show.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

You're a good man.

Illegitimi non carborundum



Here's the thing that's always confused me....why does a STYLE of knife have to be a near perfect copy of the original?

It doesn't, IMO.

But when the deviations from the original amount to using inferior materials, inferior manufacturing techniques, and/or inferior workmanship with no advantages over the original except to make it cheaper, or quicker, or because the maker just doesn't have the skills to match the original . . .

Then it becomes 2nd or 3rd rate (or 4th or 5th rate).

Again IMO, of course.
 
Thanks to all for the nice words....I hope to repay that some day.

There is no virtue in being an asshole and then having to apologize....I have tried to be right in my thoughts, and do right in my writing....and I fail miserably sometimes, as is only human, and at the end of the day, that is only what we are, talented, funny, flawed humans.

I ran this by a trusted associate today....and I hope it illustrates what I am trying to do. Many of my friends like to post their entire collections online. Some post their real name. In this day and age, it is so easy to exploit this kind of information, especially electronically that some people make their livings doing so. Unasked, I assume the Donny Downer mode and suggest to my friends that e-posting your entire collection online and using your real name is more than irrational, it is stupid. That stings a bit maybe, but if ONE of my friends reconsiders the approach and assumes a more low key, yet hopefully equally satisfying tack towards the goal of public display, with minimal personal risk, I feel justified.

It might be ego, it might be pushing my values or thoughts on someone else, or it might just be trying to save your ass from yourself.

Regardless, there HAS to be an approach that is more consensus building, and less insulting to the individual collectors or makers, and I haven't quite figured it out yet, which is why I wrote that I need to stay away until I can bring something of value. It won't necessarily be something said in some way that everyone can agree on, but hopefully more people will read it and consider it, than concern themselves with the way it is presented.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Hell i even enjoy the neo-tribal sometimes.

What heresy is this? Surely you can't be serious! :D

Can you enlighten me as to what exactly you were saying here?

Not to derail this thread, but another forging knifemaker who has made (and sold) a socket-handled blade whose handle was only partially rolled, leaving the edges protruding where from the looks of things it would eat into the users hand. Folks like his work, I see it as poor craftsmanship not to be encouraged in its current direction but improved upon. That's where I can see things from STeven's point of view. But I don't berate the guy, I kind of roll my eyes and go make my own stuff. I do what I can and try to let the work speak for itself. Maybe it'll encourage him to work on his craftsmanship. Or give other folks a basis for comparison. There's plenty of folks in my own particular style of knifemaking (and other styles as well) who are better than I am, and their work inspires me to make mine better.

The big difference I had with STeven (other than his delivery) was that I didn't see Serge's work as bad or mediocre craftsmanship, but as being judged for a different intention and purpose than Serge was aiming at.
 
I am truly sorry for even having written anything in this thread, but no, couldn't let you enjoy the praise. I had to tear it down, out of some misguided sense that it might be helpful in some way, you deserved better than that from a knife person....and others have gotten that treatment as well, so I apologize to all of those makers as well. Sad to say it came too little, too late

I've had my time. You and the others working so hard deserve your time. I'll see you next time we are both at a show.

:) Steven, relax my friend, no need to get drastic. I appreciate your critisism, and look forward to hearing more from you about my future work.
 
One of the unwritten rules of this forum is that if someone asks for critcism, they get it and it can be as candid as one wants. If someone doesn't ask for criticism, then it's rude to give it unless it's praise. All Serge asked for was "Hi all, wanted to show what I've been up to. Hope you guys like these!" To anyone who follows his work, it was obviously a new direction, thus there should be some "slack."
 
Watch it brownshoe... You are going to get STeven all spooled up. Again. LOL! ;)

^^^ What he said was EXACTLY my take on how forum posts should be handled. Often it's said that on the interwebz all is fair game, but in a COMMUNITY, we hold back and observe.

And that's what I've done for the past week. Held back and observed. It is said that a really good friend will stand behind his buddy, even if they are wrong. In this case and in the silly W&C thread, I've been that friend by NOT countering, because my friend infuriated me..

I am ever thankful cooler heads are back on track. I tell my eight-yr old that an apology is like a band-aid. We put it on to make the scrape better, but we would just as soon NOT have the scrape to begin with.

Serge, you have a clear direction and you will get inspirations from everywhere, know it or not. Even STeven's honest critiques which have merit.

STeven, you said it, not me: It's all about the community, NOT the knives. Thanks for being honest again. That's the guy I admire.

Coop
 
........And that's what I've done for the past week. Held back and observed......I am ever thankful cooler heads are on track.....
....STeven, you said it, not me: It's all about the community, NOT the knives. Thanks for being honest again. That's the guy I admire.

Coop

Same here. It's been a watch and wait, but I've been here before and offered my own apologies under similar circumstances. Glad to see the ending is positive here, too!

Bob
 
Coop's post echoed my sentiments regarding this thread, and the abomination in W & C. As I read the repercussions in disbelief, I too was hoping for an "all is well that ends well" direction, and i'm glad it took that direction.

I have utmost respect for STeven and his vast knowledge of knives, and also for those that post their work.

As MANY of the regular forumites will recall, a question regarding critique vs. kumbaya was posed a while back, and the vast majority preferred accuracy, whether it be positive OR negative.

Despite that, EVERYONE has, and IS entitled to their OWN opinion, and what one person likes, can easily be hated by another.

It is easy to type or be ANYTHING or ANYONE behind the anonymity of the internet, and hopefully more people will refrain from posting words that they would not say to a person face to face.

Peter
 
You're a good man.

Illegitimi non carborundum





It doesn't, IMO.

But when the deviations from the original amount to using inferior materials, inferior manufacturing techniques, and/or inferior workmanship with no advantages over the original except to make it cheaper, or quicker, or because the maker just doesn't have the skills to match the original . . .

Then it becomes 2nd or 3rd rate (or 4th or 5th rate).

Again IMO, of course.

Thanks for your answer, yeah, that makes sense....I can see where you're coming from with that. :thumbup:

Nice to see this whole thread situation has been sorted out by the way.....:cool:

Ian
 
I have utmost respect for STeven and his vast knowledge of knives, and also for those that post their work.

As MANY of the regular forumites will recall, a question regarding critique vs. kumbaya was posed a while back, and the vast majority preferred accuracy, whether it be positive OR negative.

Despite that, EVERYONE has, and IS entitled to their OWN opinion, and what one person likes, can easily be hated by another.

It is easy to type or be ANYTHING or ANYONE behind the anonymity of the internet, and hopefully more people will refrain from posting words that they would not say to a person face to face.

Peter

Bravo my friend. Great points and I'm in agreement with everything you said.

Along with his vast knoweledge, Steven has a deep rooted passion for custom knives and the cummunity, instilled in him over many years and this has gotten him trouble at times. He's certainly not alone.
 
I got a call from Steven months ago explaining that its dumb to display my collection online like I do. Instead of taking insult, I realize he has a good point. Since then I have considered keeping them in a totally different location from my home. I may do that.. I may not. He backs his concern up with logic. I think once you've gotten over his use of words, you see its all about trying to help by keeping our heads on straight. I respect that.
 
Passion or Logic does not grant one license to ignore common courtesy, decency, manners or etiquette. Especially when one is speaking publically in critiquing anothers hard work and efforts. One should choose his words wisely and put himself in the place of the one being critiqued. How would the person feel if what he was about to say on a public forum, was being said to him? Disparaging remarks would be better handled privately. A wise man once said his mother told him.... "If you don't like the food that is on the table, it is easiest not to eat with your mouth shut".
 
Yes, critique should always be done in a courtesy and productive manner, however anyone who is presenting their work on the internet should be willing to accept such critique as well as praise.
If I don't care for a knife I will usually not comment on it. If I like a knife I will usually state what I like most and I will also state what (if anything) I don't like in a courteous manner. That's only fair and can be helpful to the knifemaker and can also help new collectors form opinions as to what to look for in a custom knife.

I thought Serge handled Steven's comments quite well.
 
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If I may go out on a limb here and give my opinion

STeven cares more for the custom knife world than almost anyone I know it truly is his passion

I have many hobbies which I spread my interest and time on STeven is much more adament in his passion for knives than I am

If you ever notice he does not comment on poor examples of this craft he seems to give some of his hardest comments
To makers that he believes have talent and style that they are holding back on

I truly believe his point was that in a world of ho hum tactical folders and let's face it chisel ground Hartsfield style blades which I happen to love he believes Serge is capable of so much more

He does not want him to do loveless style hunters more like he hopes to see makers strive for greatness and set the bar for the future of a hobby and interest that is much more to him than any can imagine

Maybe he goes about it wrong sometimes but who is ot wrong sometimes

All I know is that when I need an opinion on things in this genre he is the one who's opinion I value the most

Plus a truer friend would be hard to find

So for those of you that are tired of his passion maybe he is tired of your lack of passion

I hope he learns to word his comments in a different way on a public forum but if he looses his passion in his comments we will all in the end be the worse for it


Believe it or not he has helped more peoe in this community than he has hurt and that is by a large margin

No he should not comment rudely on the direction of a makers work but I believe he should inspire makers to strive for the best they can do and I truly believe that was his goal

Steven if I am wrong feel free to tongue lash me at will I'll always support ya you are my friend and when I need advice I'll keep asking even if I don't like what I hear :)
 
I agree with many of your points, Joe.
But i feel that for Stevens words to be all they could be in terms of passion, constructiveness and effectiveness, they must be tempered by some compassion, forethought and tact. Words well spoken have far more effect than just lashing out. Otherwise he might as well be tilting at windmills, as noone will want to listen because of the way he comes across.
 
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I agree with many of your points, Joe.
But i feel that for Stevens words to be all they could be in terms of passion, constructiveness and effectiveness, they must be tempered by some compassion, forethought and tact. Words well spoken have far more effect than just lashing out. Otherwise he might as well be tilting at windmills, as noone will want to listen because of the way he comes across.

I pretty much said that above, in so many words.

This is a fairly difficult issue to wrestle with. I don't generally talk smack about a maker's work with fellow collectors unless willing to speak with the maker about it face to face. A few years ago, used to call makers directly and comment on pieces offline with the hopes of establishing a dialogue, and a few makers decided to mock me on another forum for doing so....so now, it gets put it out there for everyone to see....if you want to mock me or argue, we can do it publicly....if you just want happy, positive conversation...you can get that too, just ask.

Damaging a maker's hard earned work and reputation is not my goal. A quick sentence or two I typed without much thought created a bad situation for Marcus a few years ago....and instead of learning from it, just moved on, and continued my way.

The greatest compliment that I can offer a maker is to order or own one of their knives......that goes for the rest of you too. It's pretty easy to say nice things about a maker's work, and an entirely different proposition to pay for it. I have never cancelled an ordered knife, I have never not paid for a knife....for as much as it is a shame when a maker stops making knives, to me it is a bigger shame when a collector stops collecting knives. I'd like to own one of Serge's knives because I see so much talent there, and such a different style......just have to find the right knife.

There are other makers I have seen doing so many things "wrong"....and I have seen one or two collectors take an interest in that maker and completely overhaul that makers' business, impacting it so much for the better. Seeing those results are what drives me, and it isn't ego for the most part. It is belief that the time that others have invested in me, the effort that other makers, collectors and yes even dealers can be put to some positive use....but the words that are chosen are not always "correct".

So, the conundrum is....is it better to self-edit and question the effectiveness OR risk the occasional hurt ego/feeling? The best makers that I have known, and if you count the AKI makers as a representative group of "the best", about half have encouraged me over the years, and said that while my critique was often harsh it was also extremely balanced, rational and educational....not that they always agreed, but they appreciated the effort made. Tact is not my strong suit, compassion has, believe it or not, gotten much better in the last couple of years....the posts to Serge were more of a relapse than a reappearance of previously insensitive transgressions, and I feel my posts support that change of style.

The biggest crime that I can commit is to join the voices of fanboys worldwide and just say rah-rah good stuff. I won't even do that with close friends who are knifemakers....it is intellectually dishonest...I come from a world where it can always be done better....and my failure to do it better from time to time is on display for all to see on BladeForums.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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Well said Steven, i can agree with that.
Always bear in mind though, that, when one is taking the chance to offer criticism, they must be willing to take criticism themselves. Anymosity should not season the recipe. Arguments should be well thought out and not done for the sake of being right. We all fail, we all succeed, we all learn.
 
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