4116 vs. 5Cr15MoV vs. 4034SS

D

dogstar

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I see other steels creeping into CS budget lines. For example, the Kudu is now 5Cr15MoV and the Outdoorsman Lite is 4034SS. How are these steels compared to good ol' 4116? Are we going to miss 4116 some day?
 
Based on reviews and steel info I scoured online, I probably wouldn’t roll with any of these three. The most common con I picked up was poor edge retention generally.

For a knife that wouldn’t really be used frequently, any of these steels sharpened decently should do the trick. As a rule of thumb though, I prefer budget models with VG10 or Aus10a. Just my two cents. :)
 
I know CS uses these steels to keep prices low, which I appreciate. I am just wondering what type of performance to expect.
 
dogstar said:
I know CS uses these steels to keep prices low, which I appreciate. I am just wondering what type of performance to expect.
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Using cheaper steel to keep prices low is understandable, no one is arguing with that. But just because you pay cheap price, doesn't mean you deserve to get crap. Just because you pay $1 for a McChicken, doesn't mean you deserve to get garbage leftover dogfood in that burger. Many manufacturers are able to use D2, Aus8, 8Cr, 9Cr etc. for knives that's $20-40 range, so unless CS is selling these knives Kudu price, there's no excuse. E.g. Spyderco Byrd line starts at $20+ and they use at least 8Cr steel. Do some research, just because some knives have lower price doesn't mean the steel need to be crap.

If you wanna know how they perform, they are probably all gonna perform in that 420HC range. All have around 0.45-0.55% carbon. If you've use the old Buck 110, then it's probably similar(or worse since Paul Bos was heat treating Buck's 420HC). For 5Cr15MoV, think of 8Cr(that Spyderco uses for their $20+ knives), but worse. These are probably not gonna give you better performance than common kitchen knife. Victorinox kitchen knives use similiar steel. Gerber uses 5Cr to make axes, which is not known to be the same hardness as knife.

For comparison, the AUS8 steel CS still uses has 0.7-0.75% carbon, which means it can be harder. From edge holding perspective, all 1.4116, 5Cr and 4034SS are going to be a step down from AUS8.
 
insta9ves said:
Using cheaper steel to keep prices low is understandable, no one is arguing with that. But just because you pay cheap price, doesn't mean you deserve to get crap. Just because you pay $1 for a McChicken, doesn't mean you deserve to get garbage leftover dogfood in that burger. Many manufacturers are able to use D2, Aus8, 8Cr, 9Cr etc. for knives that's $20-40 range, so unless CS is selling these knives Kudu price, there's no excuse. E.g. Spyderco Byrd line starts at $20+ and they use at least 8Cr steel. Do some research, just because some knives have lower price doesn't mean the steel need to be crap.

If you wanna know how they perform, they are probably all gonna perform in that 420HC range. All have around 0.45-0.55% carbon. If you've use the old Buck 110, then it's probably similar(or worse since Paul Bos was heat treating Buck's 420HC). For 5Cr15MoV, think of 8Cr(that Spyderco uses for their $20+ knives), but worse. These are probably not gonna give you better performance than common kitchen knife. Victorinox kitchen knives use similiar steel. Gerber uses 5Cr to make axes, which is not known to be the same hardness as knife.

For comparison, the AUS8 steel CS still uses has 0.7-0.75% carbon, which means it can be harder. From edge holding perspective, all 1.4116, 5Cr and 4034SS are going to be a step down from AUS8.
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Thanks, I guess we can expect similar performance out of these new steels.
 
insta9ves said:
Using cheaper steel to keep prices low is understandable, no one is arguing with that. But just because you pay cheap price, doesn't mean you deserve to get crap. Just because you pay $1 for a McChicken, doesn't mean you deserve to get garbage leftover dogfood in that burger. Many manufacturers are able to use D2, Aus8, 8Cr, 9Cr etc. for knives that's $20-40 range, so unless CS is selling these knives Kudu price, there's no excuse. E.g. Spyderco Byrd line starts at $20+ and they use at least 8Cr steel. Do some research, just because some knives have lower price doesn't mean the steel need to be crap.

If you wanna know how they perform, they are probably all gonna perform in that 420HC range. All have around 0.45-0.55% carbon. If you've use the old Buck 110, then it's probably similar(or worse since Paul Bos was heat treating Buck's 420HC). For 5Cr15MoV, think of 8Cr(that Spyderco uses for their $20+ knives), but worse. These are probably not gonna give you better performance than common kitchen knife. Victorinox kitchen knives use similiar steel. Gerber uses 5Cr to make axes, which is not known to be the same hardness as knife.

For comparison, the AUS8 steel CS still uses has 0.7-0.75% carbon, which means it can be harder. From edge holding perspective, all 1.4116, 5Cr and 4034SS are going to be a step down from AUS8.
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This ^

I could not find much information on 4034SS steel, but what I did find said 4034SS is a step down from AUS8A steel.

Knives which previously were made in AUS8A steel, now in 2020 with 4034SS steel (may be others in the CS line up ?)

Micro Recon

Mini Tuff Lite


New design for 2020 with 4034SS

Kiradashi
 
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.43-.50 carbon ,but no mo or v so they are charging 37.00 for the kiradashi (awesome design)-probably super easy to sharpen so tailored for the non-knife knutz for sure,way over priced in my opinion ...not sure what is going on at Cold Steel but its pretty sad
 
Well, found this thread googling more about 4034 after it's said that Trail Master and Recon Scout will now switch to 4034...
BITEME said:
...not sure what is going on at Cold Steel but its pretty sad
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I definitley agree with the statement.
 
Smiling said:
Well, found this thread googling more about 4034 after it's said that Trail Master and Recon Scout will now switch to 4034...
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End of an era actually. Cold Steel was defined by knives such as the Trail Master. Maybe it is a good thing we have the new "anytime anywhere " motto as opposed to "Strongest Sharpest". I appreciate that I'm not being charitable here but someone has lost the plot.

What would a reasonable alternative be for a Trail Master ? ESEE Junglas ? Becker BK9 ?
 
SeanODCS said:
What would a reasonable alternative be for a Trail Master ? ESEE Junglas ? Becker BK9
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I'd go with ESEE. Tested and proven full tang 1095 steel blades. And no questions asked warranty. I have ESEE 3, flawless fit and finish, really good edge retention, breeze to sharpen, good performance and ergonomics.
Their blades are tried and tested and they stand behind their product.

I hope Cold Steel won't follow Gerber's path.
It's sad day that we're talking about Cold Steel alternatives on Cold Steel forum section.

I have Warcraft Tanto in 3V. Full tang fixed blade that's just beautiful and it's performance is flawless. But since rest of Warcraft series never happened and Magnum one is already discontinued... I don't know if they'll be around here for long. I'm glad I was able to get one tho.
 
SeanODCS said:
End of an era actually. Cold Steel was defined by knives such as the Trail Master. Maybe it is a good thing we have the new "anytime anywhere " motto as opposed to "Strongest Sharpest". I appreciate that I'm not being charitable here but someone has lost the plot.
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Sad but true, and harsh but fair.
EatingSarma said:
It's sad day that we're talking about Cold Steel alternatives on Cold Steel forum section.
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Yeah, but 4034 for a large fixed blade? Come on now...

I'm really curious to see how that's going to turn out.
 
Crazy to me. Especially at the price point of knives we are talking about.

AEBL would have been a great choice. Cheap, super strong, and gets laser sharp easily!!

I had a San Mai trail master and was impressed with the VG1. I have more than a few in other stainless steels Aus8a, Krupp 4116 stainless, and a few others.
 
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jlauffer said:
They used their "400 Series Stainless" and AUS6A way back when they offered a regular stainless (not San Mai) Trail Master, so its not unprecedented. But still not happy about it.
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To be honest, if CS reverted to offering an Aus6 (or better yet an Aus8) TM, it would be more attractive than one in 4034. Those steels have already been proven satisfactory in large bowies that have come out of Seki in past years.
 
Can we go back to 2014 and before and get our knives in AUS8? I can’t believe I’m saying this in 2020 but I’m not surprised anymore. I gotta say, CS is one of the very few companies that actually downgraded steel for the same model. E.g. micro recon 1 mentioned above.
 
insta9ves said:
Can we go back to 2014 and before and get our knives in AUS8? I can’t believe I’m saying this in 2020 but I’m not surprised anymore. I gotta say, CS is one of the very few companies that actually downgraded steel for the same model. E.g. micro recon 1 mentioned above.
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I'd even settle for 1055...
 
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