440B vs all takers

We had a good bit of discussion about the CPM 154 name and my comments supported CPM 154.

Mecha has been trying to explain the metallurgy of his blades , read his posts , ask questions !! Modern metallurgy involves very detailed composition and very detailed HT . A casual comment about Ti blades doesn't explain things !
 
lobo9er said:
your opinion on s30v is based on one 15 year old knife... And there were problems reported with s30v in the beginning with chipping, rolls sounds like a heat treat issue. Or you hit a knot thats a problem with anecdotal evidence with no video to back up.
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It is important to realize, that he is also talking about knives which he heavily reprofiled, if my memory serves correct.

He may not have been dealing with an intact, unmolested heat treat at that point.

Many members have him on ignore.
 
I have no real desire for more SRK's. But considering the likely street price of the 2017 SK5's, it will be hard to say no to having some as replacements for the Mora's in my bags/packs. The last time I took an AUS8A SRK out I beat it through a lot of wood. It came back to smoothly slicing paper after aprox. 40 wipes per side on my Sharpmaker, took me maybe under 5 minutes to be done. Really, is that such a chore ? I usually just want to walk around outside and hack up some wood for a fire, and basically save my sorry azz if I mess up, or the weather/night catches me. I have more than enough small fancier steel blades to back me up for the finer stuff. So, for the banging thumping work, I have no prob with the 440B (aprox) steel range, but I also like a smaller back up, neck knife or whatever, in a higher range steel. To each their own, just go out, have fun, and come back with all your fingers.
:D
 
lobo9er said:
your opinion on s30v is based on one 15 year old knife... And there were problems reported with s30v in the beginning with chipping, rolls sounds like a heat treat issue. Or you hit a knot thats a problem with anecdotal evidence with no video to back up.
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Lol. A 15 year old knife that was $2000...

It was cold sharpened by hand all the way through a patient 18 month ordeal of trying to finally get "up" into a good layer of steel... 18 months of patience and constant testing, just because I liked the knife so much... And I never got it below 15 per side, if not more...

I guess I must have been hitting the same knot for 18 months...

P3216955_zpsj0eo1lgz.jpg


So now S30V is fixed... Hmmmm...

I would not be so skeptical if I had not tested another similar big knife, a RECENT knife, by another maker, this time in CPM 154, and right away it started to do the exact same micro-fold thing... That one was only $1000, so that lesson was a comparative bargain...

My impression is they found this new CPM process, found this process makes stainless steel very abrasion resistant, which might work on folders, and then they simply ignored how big knives work with impact forces, since big knives are less than 5% of the "supersteel" market by the looks of it... Or much less if you substract INFI, 3V and all the other carbon steels, which all the big knives fans swear by...

You rarely see big choppers in stainless CPM steels: Maybe because I'm not the only one seeing this...

Gaston
 
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stabman said:
This should be kept in mind by all, especially new members who might be led down an incorrect path. :thumbup:
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Ask gaston about his "unobtrusive" carry method.



440A and "junk carry". Match made in heaven, I tell ya h'whut.
 
Gaston444 said:
Lol. A 15 year old knife that was $2000...

It was cold sharpened by hand all the way through a patient 18 month ordeal of trying to finally get "up" into a good layer of steel... 18 months of patience and constant testing, just because I liked the knife so much... And I never got it below 15 per side, if not more...

I guess I must have been hitting the same knot for 18 months...

P3216955_zpsj0eo1lgz.jpg


So now S30V is fixed... Hmmmm...

I would not be so skeptical if I had not tested another similar big knife, a RECENT knife, by another maker, this time in CPM 154, and right away it started to do the exact same micro-fold thing... That one was only $1000, so that lesson was a comparative bargain...

My impression is they found this new CPM process, found this process makes stainless steel very abrasion resistant, which might work on folders, and then they simply ignored how big knives work with impact forces, since big knives are less than 5% of the "supersteel" market by the looks of it... Or much less if you substract INFI, 3V and all the other carbon steels, which all the big knives fans swear by...

You rarely see big choppers in stainless CPM steels: Maybe because I'm not the only one seeing this...

Gaston
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Quirky carry methods aside, I blame the edge issues you've experienced on your inability to land a strike squarely.
 
I went with the super steel craze, then came back, used knives with "lower end" steels and realized they work just fine for daily cutting tasks.
 
I doubt anyone can tell the difference, in a "blind taste test", between the various types of cutlery steel. If the knife makers were to stop marking their blades with the latest branded super steels we would all be lost. To the user, design, finish and quality of manufacture are far more important than the chemical make-up of the cutlery grade steel. The energy spent researching the latest steels would be better invested in studying better tool usage techniques.

n2s
 
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trevitrace said:
Quirky carry methods aside, I blame the edge issues you've experienced on your inability to land a strike squarely.
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And quite probably his tendency to thin an edge down to tinfoil thickness...

Paper thin edge + squirrelly hits = rolled, dented, chewed edges. Who'd a thunk it? [emoji848]
 
Gaston444 said:
My favourite knife is a no name brand Buckmaster clone, and it has 440 stamped on one side of the blade, and "Japan" on the other.

These are the two stamps I am happiest to see on any knife, but "Randall S" is pretty good too. Al Mar and Aus-6 is right up there too.

What I LEAST want to see is S30V or CPM154cm... This is to the point it is a dealbreaker unless the knife is dagger...

Gaston
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This is a joke , right ? :confused:
 
skyhorse said:
This is a joke , right ? :confused:
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You mean he is serious about all the garbage he posts that literally everyone including numerous makers and mods have called BS on? Aren't all Gaston's posts jokes? I thought they were :confused:
 
As is frequently noted, it is both steel elemental composition and the accompanying heat treat applied that makes or breaks the knife. As the chart shows (courtesy of the ZviSoft Knife Steel Chart database) the 440 family is very similar in terms of carbon and chromium. For comparison I’ve added two from the 420 family that Buck has used to good effect. In practice, 420HC with Buck’s great heat treat yields a better knife blade than many 440A and B knives out there which is not predicted by carbon content alone. Why? The latter appear in cheap mass produced knives that get a sub-standard heat treat. That’s not to say that 440 steels can’t produce a good blade. 440C is used by some well-regarded bladesmiths, (e.g. Jay Fisher) to produce excellent blades. With their similar % carbon there’s good reason to think the A & B variants would behave similarly with good HT. (The vertical axis units are atoms/1000 instead of the more usual %. I did this to better show the carbon differences.)

qeABMKE.jpg


In my experience, I’ve had cheap knives marked ‘440’, likely A or B. They sharpened easy, and dulled fast. I also have older 440C Buck kitchen cutlery that are a bear to sharp up, but man do they cut and stay keen. I don’t know their RC, but with the Bos heat treat it’s got to be high 50’s or maybe higher. I’m now getting experience with a Bucklite 420HC that puts it squarely in between, and probably closer, to a Buck 440C.

Take-home, if you find a quality knife with 440A or B you’re likely to like it, but you probably won’t find it because quality makers who like 440 will go for C due to its higher carbon content.
 
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BladeScout said:
Not all titanium knives are alike.
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If you read my previous posts you will see I am the one who is actually arguing that all Ti knives are not alike. The section of my post you quoted was an answer to the question "do you even own a Ti knife"

I agree though with what people are saying. 440c can be a very good steel with a proper heat treat. While Indon'tnhave much experiencenwith high end 440 a or b blades I also expect with a good HT these steels could do quite well. However some feel pretty much any stainless steel is too brittle for anbig choppa' type knife. I still think that when in use today most people consider 440b's best attribute to be corrosion resistance.
 
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I read that when selecting their 440b, that Randall Made Knives goes for 440b with a higher amount of (I think) carbon--if so, how does that work? Does it make it closer to 440c? Sorry I can't search for the original source right now. I've had a pretty good experience with Randall stainless. Also, does forging make a difference? I've read much arguing both sides... not too sure what to think.
 
I equal 440a/b knives to walmart / gas station $5 knives. It is 2017 now and we are in an age of M390, cts-204p, cpm-20v, s35vn, etc. Beforw anyone argure, yes - I can clearly see the difference betwern 440 and these newer steels.
 
sharp_edge said:
I equal 440a/b knives to walmart / gas station $5 knives. It is 2017 now and we are in an age of M390, cts-204p, cpm-20v, s35vn, etc. Beforw anyone argure, yes - I can clearly see the difference betwern 440 and these newer steels.
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The Majority of Your Wally world and Gas Station specials are NOT the Steels they have listed and may not have had a proper HT for the given steel as well!

I have used & use All of the steels you have listed and ATS-35 BG-42 and others.
I still use 440C for some of my custom knives without any complaints for over 20 years now.

440C was one of the Super Steels back in the late 1950's-60's and with a proper HT for application, works great for Culinary to big Choppers!

440B does give a bit better Corrosion resistance, but you lose a tad on edge retention. All steels are a trade off to get the mix of characteristics you want for the given chores.
 
People use HT as an excuse to justify inferior steels and equal 440 to M390. To me it is like saying 60 cents chicken can taste as good as kobe beef if cooked properly.
 
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