560 Detent Tuning

I would be very interested in taking part in this. My detent isn't bad, but I wouldnt mind trying a lighter setup.
 
I would be interested in this as well. One of my Zt is perfect. The other is way to hard to open
 
Update to keep this going- xrays the 22nd. If I get to go to 25% weight bearing I'll be able to run the lathe. Coming up soon!

Let me know about any further ideas for this, one mans thread earlier today made me see that not only the middle diameter on these isn't well tolerances, but also the ends as his is loose. Maybe its the scale bore but if it rattles in both I'm betting on it being the pin.
 
I'm actually sending mine in because the detent has changed and its now super hard to open. And to sharpen it while they have it :)

Titanium detent would be awesome!
 
I'm pretty used to the detente on mine but wouldn't mind experimenting a bit. Just to be clear, though, this has nothing to do with the lockup? It just affects things in the closed position, right?

Also, I was wondering about an eccentric pin that you could rotate to fine tune the adjustment. It probably doesn't fit tight enough to keep from rotating by itself, but just thought I'd ask. That way everyone could get one pin.
 
Last edited:
I'm completely excited by this! The detent on my 0561 is WAY too light! I've cut myself twice and punched holes in two pairs of pants, plus my truck seat.

HOW DO I SIGN UP! :)
 
freewheeling said:
I'm pretty used to the detente on mine but wouldn't mind experimenting a bit. Just to be clear, though, this has nothing to do with the lockup? It just affects things in the closed position, right?

Also, I was wondering about an eccentric pin that you could rotate to fine tune the adjustment. It probably doesn't fit tight enough to keep from rotating by itself, but just thought I'd ask. That way everyone could get one pin.
Click to expand...

no you wouldnt be able to keep it from rotating. But what you could to is instead of making a whole new stop pin as being discussed in this thread you could find tubing with an ID that matches the existing pin and use varying thickness walled tubing to get the proper fit.

NeilB said:
I'm completely excited by this! The detent on my 0561 is WAY too light! I've cut myself twice and punched holes in two pairs of pants, plus my truck seat.

HOW DO I SIGN UP! :)
Click to expand...

The mod discussed in this thread doesnt apply to your needs. It is specified for people who have too strong of detent and the people who want to weaken it. The only way to increase the strength of your detent is to increase the tension of your lockbar. The other would be to have a maker or modder install a larger detent ball.
 
PURPLEDC said:
The mod discussed in this thread doesnt apply to your needs. It is specified for people who have too strong of detent and the people who want to weaken it. The only way to increase the strength of your detent is to increase the tension of your lockbar. The other would be to have a maker or modder install a larger detent ball.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that depend on exactly where the detente ball now registers with regard to the hole?
 
PURPLEDC said:
The mod discussed in this thread doesnt apply to your needs. It is specified for people who have too strong of detent and the people who want to weaken it. The only way to increase the strength of your detent is to increase the tension of your lockbar. The other would be to have a maker or modder install a larger detent ball.
Click to expand...

As freewheeling notes, it may depend on how well centered the locking ball is in the detent.

I, for one, would rather try the pin change before bending the locking bar itself. Bending it yields the material on at least one side. If you go too far and have to bend it back a little, then the material on both sides has yielded. In my experience, this is begging the universe for an early fatigue fracture. I'd like to avoid that, if I can, and checking the centering of the ball by changing out pins seems least risky to me.
 
Hummeroid said:
(...snip...) The larger the pin, the more it pushes the blade toward the open position and softer the detent. The smaller, well you get the idea.

I was thinking of making a pass around kit that has a selection of pins, from an average stock pin size, and then let's say 5 steps either direction from there. (...snip...)
Click to expand...


PURPLEDC said:
The mod discussed in this thread doesnt apply to your needs. It is specified for people who have too strong of detent and the people who want to weaken it. The only way to increase the strength of your detent is to increase the tension of your lockbar. The other would be to have a maker or modder install a larger detent ball.
Click to expand...

:foot:
Detent can be increased by sinking the ball deeper into the detent hole, just like the OP mentions. :)

I hope OP gives this idea a chance. Generous and pretty smart.
 
usually the detent on a kai product is spot on. Having the detent exactly where it is supposed to be in relation to the closing stop pin is why you wont find hardly any ZT 0560 with wiggle when the blade is closed. Theoretically if your detent ball wasnt centered then yes a smaller dia pin would correct that and might allow to let the ball go deeper into the detent retention hole. What Im sayin is is that this most likely isnt the case. These are not cheap knives. They are precision made and the detents are usually very very accurate. If your detent is weak it is more likely that the actual detent ball was inserted into the frame farther than most. Or your lockbar doesnt have sufficient pressure on it. When you send your knives back to ZT for detent work they arent fiddling with different radius stop pins. They increase the lockbar tension and pray it doesnt create a sticky lock. If the detent ball isnt seating far enough into the blade its possible that the hole in the blade isnt large enough to allow for this. Which decreasing the radius of the stop pin will do nothing. Each person would do best to evaluate their own knife first to see if this mod would even be worth checking into for a weak detent. Given the precision of KAI products Im not that confident.


NeilB said:
As freewheeling notes, it may depend on how well centered the locking ball is in the detent.

I, for one, would rather try the pin change before bending the locking bar itself. Bending it yields the material on at least one side. If you go too far and have to bend it back a little, then the material on both sides has yielded. In my experience, this is begging the universe for an early fatigue fracture. I'd like to avoid that, if I can, and checking the centering of the ball by changing out pins seems least risky to me.
Click to expand...

I would be concerned of that if I had ever seen a single picture of a titanium frame lock that had developed a crack from stressing the material or a broken lockbar. But I havent. We arent talking about bending it back and forth repeatedly. And you have to ask yourself, do you think not a single lockbar was accidentally over extended when assemblers are fitting locks and putting these things together? Just saying I doubt they melt down every frame that they need to readjust.
 
Last edited:
My detent on my #250 0561 is perfect. Also, my stop pin does not rotate (I know it can, but mine is simply to tight, it must be pushed in with a bit of force), and shows no wear. I have taken it apart a few times and it feels the same no matter what.
 
PURPLEDC said:
I would be concerned of that if I had ever seen a single picture of a titanium frame lock that had developed a crack from stressing the material or a broken lockbar. But I havent. We arent talking about bending it back and forth repeatedly. And you have to ask yourself, do you think not a single lockbar was accidentally over extended when assemblers are fitting locks and putting these things together? Just saying I doubt they melt down every frame that they need to readjust.
Click to expand...

While I work with titanium parts every single day here at work, I bow before your extensive and intensive knowledge of all that has or ever will happen in the knife world, particularly with respect to titanium parts. And I am awed at your belief that all failures ever have been documented with pictures here on the web and that you have seen them all and remember them. Impressive, really. I cannot compete with that.

However, it's my knife and in my own personal judgement I will try what I consider to be less risky alternatives before doing things that I personally believe to be more risky, even though I operate without the benefit of your immense field of knowledge. Perhaps you could extend me a tiny bit of tolerance here.

> We arent talking about bending it back and forth repeatedly.

Actually, we are. That's how the lock bar works. We aren't talking about yielding it repeatedly, true, but that's not what you wrote. Yielding it repeatedly would lead to a fatigue fracture in fewer than 10 cycles. Think clothes hanger. The thing working in favor of long life for a lockbar is the low loading. I understand that. I also understood the point about precision machined parts. However, given my own personal life experience, I also understand about tolerance stackup, rework, and the pressure on manufacturing to hit their numbers.

May all of your knives be flawless.
 
PURPLEDC said:
The mod discussed in this thread doesnt apply to your needs. It is specified for people who have too strong of detent and the people who want to weaken it. The only way to increase the strength of your detent is to increase the tension of your lockbar. The other would be to have a maker or modder install a larger detent ball.
Click to expand...

A larger detent hole, not a larger ball, would increase the detent. A larger ball would lessen the detent because the ball would be seating shallower in the hole.
 
NeilB said:
While I work with titanium parts every single day here at work, I bow before your extensive and intensive knowledge of all that has or ever will happen in the knife world, particularly with respect to titanium parts. And I am awed at your belief that all failures ever have been documented with pictures here on the web and that you have seen them all and remember them. Impressive, really. I cannot compete with that.

However, it's my knife and in my own personal judgement I will try what I consider to be less risky alternatives before doing things that I personally believe to be more risky, even though I operate without the benefit of your immense field of knowledge. Perhaps you could extend me a tiny bit of tolerance here.

> We arent talking about bending it back and forth repeatedly.

Actually, we are. That's how the lock bar works. We aren't talking about yielding it repeatedly, true, but that's not what you wrote. Yielding it repeatedly would lead to a fatigue fracture in fewer than 10 cycles. Think clothes hanger. The thing working in favor of long life for a lockbar is the low loading. I understand that. I also understood the point about precision machined parts. However, given my own personal life experience, I also understand about tolerance stackup, rework, and the pressure on manufacturing to hit their numbers.

May all of your knives be flawless.
Click to expand...

Considering all you have to go on is your assertion that you "work with titanium parts every single day here at work," you shouldn't be such a Grade A Ass about what he said. You have pretty much no history here, and no verification that you yourself have "extensive and intensive knowledge of all that has or ever will happen in the knife world, particularly with respect to titanium parts." So why don't you cool off your attitude?

From what I read, he didn't at all say or even imply what you're making him out to have said. Making a straw man for the simple sake of having something easy to attack is a childish way to get your kicks in. He wrote very clearly, and I don't think many people would misconstrue what he wrote to mean anything like what you are saying. The only people that would are those looking for something to be a dick about. In this instance, that seems to be you.

In my "life experience," of adjusting the pressure on titanium lock bars, I have yet to have one incur any kind of fracture or failure. I have also not seen any evidence of this. ZT also likely does not remelt every lock bar that needs a tension adjustment, and I have gotten titanium frame lock knives back from them that were adjusted. They were indeed the same lock sides, me having marked them to see if they'd change it.

I doubt you actually didn't know what he was talking about. If you read his post, and thought he suggested that one should yield it repeatedly, then your reading skills would benefit from being anywhere near your alleged titanium part working skills.

Try being nicer next time, you'll look like less of an ass. Unless, of course, you don't really care about that sort of thing. Best of luck to you titanium man. :D
 
NeilB said:
While I work with titanium parts every single day here at work, I bow before your extensive and intensive knowledge of all that has or ever will happen in the knife world, particularly with respect to titanium parts. And I am awed at your belief that all failures ever have been documented with pictures here on the web and that you have seen them all and remember them. Impressive, really. I cannot compete with that.

However, it's my knife and in my own personal judgement I will try what I consider to be less risky alternatives before doing things that I personally believe to be more risky, even though I operate without the benefit of your immense field of knowledge. Perhaps you could extend me a tiny bit of tolerance here.

> We arent talking about bending it back and forth repeatedly.

Actually, we are. That's how the lock bar works. We aren't talking about yielding it repeatedly, true, but that's not what you wrote. Yielding it repeatedly would lead to a fatigue fracture in fewer than 10 cycles. Think clothes hanger. The thing working in favor of long life for a lockbar is the low loading. I understand that. I also understood the point about precision machined parts. However, given my own personal life experience, I also understand about tolerance stackup, rework, and the pressure on manufacturing to hit their numbers.

May all of your knives be flawless.
Click to expand...

Wow, you sure are touchy. I had a longer post that defended my position but I was starting to sound like you and I really dont want that.
 
Nullity said:
A larger detent hole, not a larger ball, would increase the detent. A larger ball would lessen the detent because the ball would be seating shallower in the hole.
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing that out but I think you under thought the process of installing a larger detent ball. Any time you install a detent it is automatically assumed that you drill the accompanying hole in the blade for that detent ball. As it is really is a two part system. I didnt think I needed to spell it out but I guess I was wrong about something. The larger detent ball will do a couple things. 1. You will have an increased depth that the ball can reach into the blade. Of course only AFTER you increase the size of the hole in the blade to accommodate it. 2. The larger diameter ball will have a more gradual radius to it and will glide a little better on the surface of the blade instead of digging in and wearing a channel in the blade over time. This in turn would allow you to reduce lock bar pressure while increasing detent strength of the larger ball which needs to be moved further to release the blade. That ability to reduce lockbar pressure would further alleviate resistance on the blade as it rotates which is the real cause of most friction in a bearing flipper.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top