59 and have never needed a tactical

[TsarBomba]

I don't consider any of my knives when I am thinking about potential self-defense scenarios. Having grown up in NYC and now living in another national top 8 MSA (not too long ago as high as 5th largest in the country), I've found that people will tend to grow more wary of a sheathed fixed blade hanging out from underneath a jacket or shirt than they would of an obvious holstered sidearm (e.g. the bottom of a full-frame revolver peeking out from under clothing). That is one of the primary reasons I obtained my CWL and forward-canted holster and carry a large-framed semiautomatic for defense. Oh, and I do carry a modern nearly every day as well (mostly my PM2 with a few others to spell it every so often). As Jack said, occasionally the ability to reach down with one hand and grab/open a blade is very helpful.

Furthermore, here in the urban jungle, I can't imagine any single knife that could be conveniently carried that would serve effectively as a self-defense weapon. Belt sheaths are frowned upon by law enforcement here; local statutes in the cities where I live and work give LEOs excessive liberty to detain citizens and confiscate blades in a belt sheath regardless of blade length (one could fight it in a court of law but that would rack up bills many, many times more expensive than any carry knife). My best advice for any knife carrier is to stay well clear of the state limit of a 4" blade for a folder and clip it to or drop it into a pocket. I have not investigated how a folder in a belt sheath might be treated, though I can't imagine a Buck 110 in a plain black nylon belt sheath would be subject to seizure without some sort of probable cause -- consider how many people keep cell phones clipped to their belts in nondescript cases, the cops would never get anything else done!

[deleted photo for being "too racy" ]

What's this thread doing in this forum?

Looks like it's passed mod scrutiny twice. Also, we have the traditional/modern carry thread in this sub which has been going on for quite some time.

I'm only 21 and haven't needed a tactical knife, but if I ever need a knife in a self defense situation I hope I have my buck 110 on me at the time.

My user 110 has a bolt-on thumb stud I purchased some time ago. It has never budged, and I now have three options to open the knife: Two-handed using the nail nick, two-handed using the spine of the knife (that Buck clip is so very pinchable), or one-handed using the thumb stud. If you want to leave your modern at home, it's a pretty handy compromise. I'll take a photo or two later from home if anyone has any interest.

I remember when this was a true tactical knife (for those who don't know --- there's a difference between a tactical knife and a combat knife, a tactical vehicle and a combat vehicle, etc.)

The humble demo knife. I sometimes carry my US MARINE CORPS stamped demo knife (Kingston, I believe?) and will occasionally show it to known SAK carriers. The (rather awful, I know) joke goes "I'd rather have the USMC than the Swiss Army by my side any day!"

I will say that whenever I take out one of my traditionals to use, it takes me back to the late '70s.

Where can I get one of these sweet time machine knives?!?

LOL! Darn pretty axe too! :thumbup:

Pah, that's one of those durn tacti-cool lumberyard-ninja axes!

Hey, just a thought if you do decide to gift it there is a pay it forward thread that is taking off. I know I haven't been here long but I think it's worth a look-see either way. :thumbup:

It was unfortunate that right on page one somebody accepted a custom-scaled folder and almost immediately (within 24 hours of receipt) tried to flip it online. I had been thinking of offering up a knife but I was turned right off by that instance. Furthermore, I think I prefer having a little more control over who a gifted knife goes to; that way there's no issue with a user's reputation or likelihood of taking advantage of the forum's generosity.

Also, my collection is seriously traditionals-heavy. I own a pitiful number of moderns, so I don't think there'd be much interest in what I have to offer. I was going to offer up a full-sized Case trapper early on but as I was going to post the pictures somebody posted a nicer Case with similarly-colored jigged bone and at that point my own offer was redundant. :grumpy:

Even if you when a knife fight you will be cut up with your next stop likely the emergency room.

I keep a needle, thread, and a bottle of rotgut in a First Aid kit for that very purpose.

 

[Dean51]

I've never used a knife as defense, it would actually be one of my last choices.

Lots of years ago I did use a 12” cast iron frying pan once. Does that count?
I caught someone coming in my apartment door after work about 1AM. He went to jail & I still have the frying pan.
I had a shot gun, and two 22's, I never kept anything loaded in those days. So they weren't going to help. There were the kitchen knives a couple of those might have worked and a stockman.
To this day I can't imagine what made me grab the frying pan.
The best defense is to Always be aware and be creative when necessary.

 

[TsarBomba]

EDIT: Deleted 'quasi-objectionable' content.

 

[Peregrin]

This thread was a little over the line, maybe a bit more, when it was started. Contrary to what many of you think, Frank and I try not to over moderate.

As long as the discussion is about what we like about traditional knives, why we do or don't carry a modern/modern tactical also, it'll be OK here. Make sure your post has traditional knife content. Pics of traditional knives are OK, obviously. Pics of modern or modern/tactical really don't belong.

The thread has started to drift into guns and knife laws and things that belong in other forums. Don't go there, I'd like to keep the thread here as opposed to closing or moving it.

Let's keep to discussing the OPs original post. Thanks.

 

[jec88]

I don't necessarily plan on getting in a knife fight but other things come up. Like the kid at Disney World, and then in the news today a bicyclist was attacked by a grizzly bear in some national park(haven't read whole story on that yet). Do I want to use a knife against a gator or bear?NO, but if that's what i have on me, I'd sure be using it. I'm not going to think that its not the best tool for the job so I might as well just get eaten. There is a story out there where an older man killed a grizzly with a Buck 110 that attacked him. Thats why I at least like to have something on me that at least locks. I like the 110 or 112 since it is a traditional hunting knife and at least locks.

 

[TsarBomba]

My user 110 has a bolt-on thumb stud I purchased some time ago. It has never budged, and I now have three options to open the knife: Two-handed using the nail nick, two-handed using the spine of the knife (that Buck clip is so very pinchable), or one-handed using the thumb stud. If you want to leave your modern at home, it's a pretty handy compromise. I'll take a photo or two later from home if anyone has any interest.

This obviously will not be happening now. If you're interested email me through the site and I'll send it directly.

 

[Jack Black]

I don't know about you guys but if I really need to open somebody up I'd rather have a knife that was designed to cut through flesh, and a sharp 110 would really end someone.

Anyways it's good to be prepared, but people who think and edc cutting tool needs to be ultra modern and tactical are kidding themselves ( nothing wrong with pocket clips and one hand opening for convenience though )

Easy tiger!

I'm just sayin' people carry all sorts of ultra modern folders , when a 50yr old design will work just as well if not better. Some people just seem to have a distaste for one handed traditionals when they're more than adequate.
Knives are still knifes and they all cut stuff so it's no big deal.

It was your graphic language (now highlighted), rather than your choice of knife I was commenting on H n S :thumbup:

I agree with you, there's a strong argument (frequently made in Prac-Tac) that;
A) A knife is a pretty lousy self-defence weapon. To STOP someone with a knife, you'll either have to kill them outright, or cause them to lose so much blood they'll probably die as a result (and if they're armed, there's every chance you'll be mortally injured yourself).
B) In a high-stress situation, one of the first things you'll lose control over are fine motor skills, and while you may look slick un-clipping your 'tactical' folder, and flipping out the blade, in front of the mirror, in a high-stress situation you're more likely to fumble it and drop it on the floor. Some knowledgeable people in this field recommend opening the blade manually (if you're able to do even that), and if that is accepted, the advantage of a thumb-stud or blade-hole is lost IN THIS SITUATION (useful in other situations).

I have typed out a reply to this thread many many times and ended up deleting them all. I've been in a knife fight once in my life. He had two, I had none. I have scars that will stay with me for life. He is looking at a very long prison sentence. There is no winner. I can see no way that the result would have been any better had I used a knife as well. And in true Gump fashion; that's all I have to say about that.

Discretion AND valour. Well said Paul :thumbup:

It's all gone a bit Practical-Tactical in here hasn't it gents?

 

[TsarBomba]

It was your graphic language (now highlighted), rather than your choice of knife I was commenting on H n S :thumbup:

All due respect, Jack, perhaps this is not a proper time to be highlighting verbiage that might not be appreciated in public. It seems like this thread has taken a turn (completely by accident, I'm assuming) towards upsetting the mods here. I would offer the suggestion of communicating these concerns via PM or visitor message/email going forward.

It may behoove everyone if a site official were to expand upon the stickies by elucidating upon some of these "fringe case" subjects and specifically identifying them as verboten to prevent these issues.

 

[Jack Black]

Sorry Gary, my internet connection is terrible today, I've been trying to post for around 20 minutes. This isn't a discussion we usually have here, and I must admit to having some distaste for it :thumbup:

Lots of years ago I did use a 12” cast iron frying pan once. Does that count?

Only if it made the same sound as on Tom & Jerry! :thumbup:

 

[silenthunterstudios]

Two things to keep in mind, in regards to this whole "do I need it for SD".

First, if something happens, your comments in regards to self defense are on the web for everyone to see. Remember that for legal purposes.

Second, if you are ever in an altercation, a folder is better than no knife, and I am no self defense expert, never taken a class. But a folding knife is already broken. No true guard, some type of lock that could fail, you could mess up your hands etc. Up against man, beast etc, you will come away needing a good trip to the emergency room.

I have no need for anything other than probably a drywall knife, a few kitchen knives and a good pair of scissors. However, I'm a collector. My fat butt isn't going up a ladder, I'm too chicken of heights anyway. I don't need anything either than a SAK, Mora and an Estwing hatchet.

But, like all of you, I got caught up in the whirlwind of collecting. As has been said previously, a lot of people get caught up in justifying. If you can provide a roof over your head, food in your belly and pay your bills, get that knife/gun/watch/gear you want. Do some research on it. Find out what you like. I have probably had about a thousand different knives go through my paws. I've decided I like Chris Reeve folders, slipjoints and bushcraft knives. I went through all of the modern knives.

It is great to talk about this kind of stuff, see where everyone else's head is at. But I have found that people will roll their eyes and move away, like the Arlo Guthrie song Alice's Restaurant. We have the modern haters, we have the modern lovers. It is a knife. Let's kick back a beer and eat some grub.

Share some slipjoint pron!

 

[Jack Black]

All due respect, Jack, perhaps this is not a proper time to be highlighting verbiage that might not be appreciated in public. It seems like this thread has taken a turn (completely by accident, I'm assuming) towards upsetting the mods here. I would offer the suggestion of communicating these concerns via PM or visitor message/email going forward.

It may behoove everyone if a site official were to expand upon the stickies by elucidating upon some of these "fringe case" subjects and specifically identifying them as verboten to prevent these issues.

Sorry as per Gary TB, for the slow reply, I might have to pack it in before I have a dead computer on my conscience!

It was just a clarification, and my original response was in jest. However, I think Gary is right to be concerned, and I'm sure he's not alone in that. If you look through the long 'What did you do with your traditional knife today' thread, I don't think there are any occurrences of bad guys being eviscerated! The use of a knife as a weapon is not something that is usually a topic of conversation here in Traditionals, there are other forums for that :thumbup:

For my part, I think I'm going to have to pack this in until my internet signal gets better, it's just taking me too long to post

 

[mrknife]

i am not looking forward to a knife fight, do not wish to be in one, but if ever forced in that situation what ever knife on me will have to do. Sometimes I walk around with a decent some of money and do carry a cheap little locking blade along with a traditional, but it would only be in a last ditch situation. and Id likely throw the knife away before id use it. The laws of NYC towards knives that lock are very very circumstantial. Most days I am in scrubs, going to the hospital. If i was to be stopped by the NYPD, i am sure they will ask questions, or even confiscate any locking folders. Traditionals may be looked upon differently. However if used as a weapon and I demonstrate intent, then all bets are off. That being said, construction workers walk around the city everyday with pocketclips showing and are not stopped. However if you appear to be a trouble maker, NYPD will not hesitate to stop you, because now a days I see full counter terrorism units on my daily commute to the hospital.

I love all knives. I have many types in my collection. Traditionals were the first knives I ever had as a child, and as I grew up and got a job, my collection grew as well. They are good tools to have and have always been tools for me. But if the situation ever came to it, Id rely on a fixed blade more than any folder. I suppose they are the most traditional of knives

 

[jackknife]

I can only wonder if in the end, we are just a product of the era we grew up in. Like I will always have a fond place in my heart for cars of the 1950's, old classic rock and roll, and the Eisenhower era. All the men folk of the family carried a knife in their pocket, and if they had pants on, they had a knife in there someplace. But…it was always the stereotypical old time serpentine jack of some sort. Dad has his peanut, Uncle Charlie had his TL-29, Uncle paul had his advertising littlenecks from machine parts supply firms like TRW taps and drill bits. Usually a small 3 inch cracked ice celluloid two bade jack with a keychain bail.

The knives I saw in use were on fishing trips, campouts, family get togethers, scout outings, and such. Nice peaceful wholesome gatherings for a kid to grow up around. I didn't grow up ever seeing anything about being able to stab a knife through a car door, or other such nonsense. Certainly not ever seeing barbell weights hanging on a knife showing how strong a knife blade lock was. I was always taught that if you needed a stronger knife, then that's what sheath knives were for. They didn't fold up on you no matter what.

Not that there wasn't crime around, there certainly was. Before dad moved us out to the suburbs, we lived in Washington D.C. in some apartments. Wasn't a great neighborhood, but not a real bad one either. But it was the big city and the bad real estate wasn't too far away. Uncle Charlie and his family lived in some portents just across the alley and their building backed to ours. Uncle Charlie took the bus down to the Government printing office where he worked on North Capital street. A very not so nice neighborhood even then. He carried a nice woven leather blackjack in his back pocket for the trip, and they were legal then. We had a maiden Aunt who lived across the alley as well. She'd come over for dinner and visit at the end of the workday, and at night dad would walk her home across the alley other apartment. He also carried a nice flat blackjack in a back pocket plus a foot and a half of sawed off shovel handle. I vividly remember the afternoon that our scout master Mr. Van beat the mortifying dog poo out of a guy who had assaulted one of the scouts, using a piece of broken off broom stick.

The point of all that is, these men never thought of a knife as a weapon. They'd never dream of leaving the house without their pocket knife on them, but if they thought there may be trouble, they carried a tool just for that, and it was usually a blunt force type of weapon. I also remember something that made a very vivid impression on me concerning knives. When I was in my James Dean stage, and expressed my maybe wanting to get a switchable, I remember Uncle Charlie spiting out a shred of tobacco from his El Producto cigar and saying in a scornful tone, "Knives are for (insert very naughty word here.)

When I saw the birth of the 'modern' knife, I remember seeing the swell of popularity based on some pretty unreal advertising, and wondering if they were an inventive cure for a non-exsistant problem. I never could figure out why the Buck 110 became as poplar as it did, as it did. But I think it became the knife industries idea to stimulate a slow market by coming out with something new and hyping it as hard as they could. Solutions to that non existent problem. I still can't figure out how a tactical knife with a super lock is better than a sheath knife with a solid construction and zero moving parts. No folder is ever going to match even a moderately priced sheath knife in ability to function is very dirty or hard conditions.

Is the so called 'modern' knife going to open my mail any better or cut that twine in the garden? Or is it going to break down the cardboard box any better because it has a lock that you can hang a Brinks Armored car from? Most of them need a clip to hang from because they are too dark bulky to drop in a pocket and forget about. I think those men I grew up around and was mentored by understood that principle. They were not knife nuts, just guys who knew they needed to keep a sharp piece of steel handy to cut with. So they carried something small enough to drop in a pocket and forget about until needed. Literally forget about it. Not dote over it, fondle it, and think about what Red Dawn fantasies it could get them out of. These were the practical men who were America's greatest generation, and by and large they were a very pragmatic lot.

Now, you have a couple of generations that have had sooo easy, and are a bit spoiled. That they have a huge amount of disposable income that our fathers and grandfathers generations never could have dreamed of, things have go a bit unreal to say the least. With the post WW2 great migration from country to city, a larger number of people now are sitting on their duff's in office cubicles, not out on the farm or riding the range, yet a weird wannabe obsession with all things tactical is running the market. Tactical rifles, tactical knives, tactical wallets, tactical hankies, all in any camo you want. I haven't seen any Chinese paratroopers dropping out of the sky, nor have I seen any hostile injuns' off the reservations and on the warpath. I have always been mystified a bit as to the new obsession with weaponry by people who have never ever served in the military. But I'm mystified the most by people who think they need a knife that they can draw faster that John Wesley Hardin could pull his revolver. Unless it's not just as a cutting tool. It's the elephant in the corner.

To me, a knife is, and always will be a small cutting tool that drops in my pocket and goes un-noted until needed. Peanut size knives work well for me for that application. Whittling a tent peg, cutting open a box from UPS, slicing through plastic blister packaging that was designed to defeat tooth and nail and high explosive, and open my mail. If I've been lucky, cleaning the fish I caught. Dad allays told me that it didn't have to be big, just sharp. I'm glad I reached an age where I go the brains to believe him. That's what knives were used for when I was kid, and I guess I'm set in my ways. If I need to defend myself, that's what firearms, and blunt force trauma tools are for. As for modern knives, show me some nice stockmen or peanuts using modern materials to give me a better pocket knife for my uses, I'll try it. But I'm wedded to nice thin blades that cut well, and nice fine points that are handy on a small knife. I just have no use for thick wedge blades and strange blade shapes that their sole use is to offer something different to a buyer who bought the hype.

So far in my life as a retired gentleman of leisure, fishing and camping all over the U.S., I haven't found these two "old fashioned" knives to be lacking.

[/url]Untitled by Carl Levitan, on Flickr[/IMG]

The venerable stockman pattern has a history going back to the 1880's, yet is as viable today as then. They had single locking blade knives then, but they never achieved the popularity of the stockman or even the humble barlow, with people who made their living outdoors. I can't think of anyone who needs a good knife as much as some rancher on the hurricane deck of a half broke mustang, or a freight wagon driver pushing a loaded wagon over Raton Pass.

[/url]Untitled by Carl Levitan, on Flickr[/IMG]

I can't think of any single advantage to a 'modern' knife over a stockman, expect how it would limit me by just having one single blade on hand, with no choice of blade length or point/edge style vs the choice of three with the stockman. And if I'm cutting, why do I need a blade lock? Again, the gorilla in the corner nobody talks about, just around. A blade lock prevents the blade from closing on you. Why would a blade close on you? Because you're sticking the blade into something. If one is not planing on stabbing something, why is a lock needed that can stab through car doors?

 

[Jack Black]

Excellent post Carl, as usual A couple of years back, all the old criminal records from the London Old Bailey were put online, and there was no shortage of murders and nefarious deeds detailed. I was surprised to learn that "knife crime" was virtually unknown though, people bludgeoned each other with all manner of instruments, but knives seem to have been almost never used.

 

[neal70]

I usually carry 4 or more knives, always astraight blade and have had several people pull knives on me ( used to work in a biker bar-no colors! Prominently displayed) All those times I never used one of my knives cause I didn't want to do a murder stretch. My cane is much more practical, and useful! It keeps me from falling over! It's also made of tubular steel, for people of very large weight. I don't weigh that much(230-ish) but it doesn't flex when I stand, etc. keep your sharpies in your pocket and God bless it, run! if you have to. No one wins a knife fight, you just survive.
Thanks, Neal

 

[Hickory n steel]

All due respect, Jack, perhaps this is not a proper time to be highlighting verbiage that might not be appreciated in public. It seems like this thread has taken a turn (completely by accident, I'm assuming) towards upsetting the mods here. I would offer the suggestion of communicating these concerns via PM or visitor message/email going forward.

It may behoove everyone if a site official were to expand upon the stickies by elucidating upon some of these "fringe case" subjects and specifically identifying them as verboten to prevent these issues.

I probably should've been less graphic, so I apologize for that.
I did sorta loose the point of the thread, which I believe to be that most people won't need a knife in a self defense situation ( they're often avoidable but not always )
And that carrying a non tactical knife is perfectly adequate.

To me there are pocketknives ( sub 3.5" stud and clip free folders ) folders , traditional or modern ( over 3.5" that may have sheaths, clips , or studs ) and tactical folders.

 

[neffarious]

I can't think of any single advantage to a 'modern' knife over a stockman, expect how it would limit me by just having one single blade on hand, with no choice of blade length or point/edge style vs the choice of three with the stockman. And if I'm cutting, why do I need a blade lock? Again, the gorilla in the corner nobody talks about, just around. A blade lock prevents the blade from closing on you. Why would a blade close on you? Because you're sticking the blade into something. If one is not planing on stabbing something, why is a lock needed that can stab through car doors?

The lock is needed because the blade moves so freely that it locks into place for safety. it's a byproduct of one hand opening. There are lots of modern slip joints, and plenty of locking traditionals. IMHO a lock does not a modern knife make. It's more of a style or pattern, once again IMHO. Why is that uber car stabbing lock needed? It's probably not. People just want it. Just like most of anything else. you really don't need a 3 bladed knife on you. You want it. Most likely a single blade would do just fine.

 

[TsarBomba]

First, if something happens, your comments in regards to self defense are on the web for everyone to see. Remember that for legal purposes.

Well, again, we're edging away from traditional knife-related content, but the very fact that I have a CWL puts me at a "higher risk" for these legal repercussions than your typical Strider-carrying mall ninja. It's basically like asking the government to bump me to the front of the line any time something goes down involving a firearm chambered in the calibers I'm registered as owning.

Second, if you are ever in an altercation, a folder is better than no knife, and I am no self defense expert, never taken a class. But a folding knife is already broken. No true guard, some type of lock that could fail, you could mess up your hands etc. Up against man, beast etc, you will come away needing a good trip to the emergency room.

Single-edge blades are horrible for stabbing. If you're using a slipjoint, weak lockback, etc. you should not be stabbing. But this comes down to training and experience, which cannot be acquired from the internet anyway.

As you intimated, I'd expect most of the modern collectors in this forum do so because of the draw of knife collecting (same reason I somehow ended up with entirely too many slipjoints for any one reasonable human being ). I don't expect your typical BFC user to be competent in melee combat or self-defense with any kind of blade, and for those of us who might have some formal experience, I doubt many of us (if any) stay well enough in practice to be effective in a life-or-death situation. Sure, the idea that you've got a flipper in the RFP might give you enough confidence to head to the sketchy part of town but, let's face it, if the Schlitz hits the fan it's probably not going to end well regardless of your preference for ZT or Cattaraugus.

I'm a knife lover. I appreciate moderns. I love slippies. I tend to have no fewer than one of each on my person at all times, variety aside. Push comes to shove, however, and I'm not reaching for any of 'em as a first option. Unless my accoster is a fellow knife knut, in which case I might toss a stockman in one direction as a diversionary tactic.

Here's my "tactical load-out" for the day, or at least the portion of which is allowed to be posted in this thread:

Sorry as per Gary TB, for the slow reply, I might have to pack it in before I have a dead computer on my conscience!
It was just a clarification, and my original response was in jest. However, I think Gary is right to be concerned, and I'm sure he's not alone in that. If you look through the long 'What did you do with your traditional knife today' thread, I don't think there are any occurrences of bad guys being eviscerated! The use of a knife as a weapon is not something that is usually a topic of conversation here in Traditionals, there are other forums for t
For my part, I think I'm going to have to pack this in until my internet signal gets better, it's just taking me too long to post

Understood. And regarding the internet connection, I can't say I blame you one bit. Up until Monday I had to spend 10 days using 4G phone tethering for my sole internet connection at home because of an ISP snafu leading to a hipshot change of provider. ISP #1 fought the change, ISP #2 bypassed that but then couldn't schedule a required install for over a week. I guess I made the right call because clearly I'm not the only one needing new service in my area!

Hope your connection clears up, though I imagine it's already getting a little later in your neck of the woods.

 

[TsarBomba]

Excellent post Carl, as usual A couple of years back, all the old criminal records from the London Old Bailey were put online, and there was no shortage of murders and nefarious deeds detailed. I was surprised to learn that "knife crime" was virtually unknown though, people bludgeoned each other with all manner of instruments, but knives seem to have been almost never used.

Nobody wanted to sully one of those sweet, sweet lambsfoot knives.

 

[leghog]

The humble demo knife.

A misnomer if there ever was one. Wasn't a demo knife. The thing is all steel.