A Blade Show sneak preview

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Wild Rose said:
Very nice piece Kevin, but with all due respect to Kevin with whom I may not always agree, but do HIGHLY respect, but isn't this a "blatant advertising post" as per the recent thread that only paid Knifemaker levels and above are supposed to be allowed to start such threads here on BF and not just registered members? Three such Registered members starting the same kind of posts on the Custom forums had their threads locked, which I can only assume were locked due to the rulings re< only paid members? So am I seeing a bit of hypocrisy here or....
Again NOTHING against Kevin, and while some may THINK I'm being a bit of an arse, but IMO fair is fair or do certain registered only members get a pass ?????...........and yep I probably should have reported the post to the mod, but since the ruling has become public I reckon I'll just keep it that way......again if there are rules than they should be equally applied or do the "special ones" get a pass?????
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Wild Rose said:
I agree that such posts are inspiring and I frankly "love" such posts, BUT according to the "rules" of this forum as stated by the mod/modss in a previous thread, that such posts are not allowed PERIOD for only registered and not paid for membership threads (and as noted at least three such threads were locked on the Custom forum, but apparently they weren't members of the chosen) and again the rules stated there were NO allowances by the mods, except when posting a WIP or similar type thread, so what I see is apparently a "the chosen" are exceptions, but those not part of the "gang" lose out - think what you may but based on the forum "RULES" threads such as this started by registered members only and allowed to to continue, show that apparently the rules are NOT being applied equally. If such rules are up to the discretion of the mod and are not applied equally, then the rules are simply BS - since apparently those not part of the select group are left out and damn those who "don't fit in"..........sorry but if the rules are not applied equally then it's plain and simply bull puckey ..........
and if ya'll think different then see what happens if I post such a thread here or or on the Custom Forum...........want to bet it would get locked because I'm not a registered member? I really used to like this forum and made a few good friends here, but recently it seems if you're not part of the "group" well then what you have is not rules but a form of situational ethics...........

ticked off ? you bet - if you have a set of rules then they should be applied equally or not at all................but ya'll seem to to want allow some "chosen few" to not follow the rules, so ????........and again this has nothing to do with Kevin, but rather it's about an abrogation of the rules for those apparent exceptions.............want to bet if I or a few others posted such a thread on here or the Custom Forum it won't get locked? but then I'm not one of the "gang" ( and frankly I wouldn't want to be if that's the way the wind blows - kind of like Groucho's dictum) but then again who knows? - I "might" be allowed just to show I'm wrong..............In my not so humble opinion (an opinion based on 50+ years of crafting knives and leather and seeing the changes and concomitant BS on various forums), the rules should be applied equally or not at all, and should not be based on the mods "discretion". FWIW on some other forums, both knife making and other, I'm a mod so I do understand the "job", and the rules are the rules there period, with only VERY limited exceptions, but apparently not here.............and if I get banned for such an " attitude" then so be it, but IMO it will only prove my point, but then again I'm not out to "prove" anything, because in general I don't really care what most think about me, except for the newbies who have not yet learned to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak..............

Reckon some here, maybe even most (per the some of the previous posts it's already started) will think me an A hole for saying what I've said, I've had my say (unless of course it's moderated)

Bottom line
yep it's Spark's forum and he can make/apply the rules as he sees fit via his mods, but in the long run IMO it will be a loss not a gain.........and FWIW I know a fair number of what could be valuable members who won't post here due to the apparent discrepancies...............

as for me I "join" in as a form of sharing and recreation, but no matter what when I see such hypocrisy then I have no desire to be part and parcel of such a group. Of course my that's my "opinion" and as the old saying goes like backsides we all have one so take it as you will.........

I can see what you're talking about BUT, he doesn't have a price showing or even say he's selling it. He's just showing his work off to people that can enjoy it. [/quote}
Sorry but according to the mods in the recent thread it doesn't matter - if you're not PAID member this type thread isn't allowed no exceptions.........
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If you didn't report the post, then why all the complaints over unfair treatment?
If you think it's a violation then report it and it will be evaluated.

It's interesting to see the number of formerly paid members that have slipped to registered users and I wonder why that is.
 
And yep once again Kevin you apparently feel that "you" should be given a pass just "because" - if the forum rules are the rules ( and my original post was not directed to you, but rather the apparent discrepancy in the way the rules are currently applied so dinnae fash yourself that it's about YOU) than and they should be applied equally and NO ONE no matter who or how important should be given an exception - so go ahead and feel self important if you so choose, but the bottom line is based on the forum rules that should be applied to all not just some chosen few, you broke them - so IMO cough up the $$$ for a membership to make such posts or stop making them ............yes you do have a lot to offer and I do respect your work and studies (albeit I do not always agree with your "attitude"), but in the long run you're just another knife maker like hundreds of others that have come before and that will come in the future...........and like many others will be most likely be but a foot note in the history of knife making, despite you apparent fan club.......
 
I humbly beg to be allowed to pay for a knifemaker membership for Kevin. Seriously.....

This is utter nonsense.

I'd happily pay for Kevin's, Nick Wheeler's Brian Fellhoelter's and a few other members membership fees in return for all they share if that's what it takes.
 
My point had NOTHING to do with Kevin personally (although he and others seem to see it that way and I note he took his ball and ran home) but rather the point was the discrepancy in enforcing the forum rules for all or none.................
 
and yep I probably should have reported the post to the mod, but since the ruling has become public I reckon I'll just keep it that way......again if there are rules than they should be equally applied or do the "special ones" get a pass?????
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as I noted - this has become a public issue on this forum not just a private one and I also notice that NO one asked why (or defended) the other same exact type threads in the custom forums which were locked per the RULES.

and no it's not Nonsense - it's about fair play for all, and if you can't see that..............and again the playing field should be equal not matter who makes the post the best of the best or the newbie...........

and FWIW - I have no real dog in this "fight " other than fair play for all, no matter who - I place NO ONE on a pedestal not matter what..........if you note in my first post I even complimented Kevin on his very FINE work and note how I respected him... so again it was NOT a personal attack..........of course then Kevin took it personally, even though he SHOULD have known the rules, but then apparently he's considered by at least some to be special and should be given a pass, whether he followed the rules, which were recently posted for ALL and not just the few..........
 
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Hi Brian, son,
This reminds me of the kindness this forum showed to me in 1999. I was a registered member and some body signed me up as a paid member. These are some of the finest people on the world wide web.
Brian Ayres said:
I humbly beg to be allowed to pay for a knifemaker membership for Kevin. Seriously.....

This is utter nonsense.

I'd happily pay for Kevin's, Nick Wheeler's Brian Fellhoelter's and a few other members membership fees in return for all they share if that's what it takes.
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First- I will apologize to Kevin, who again I have a LOT of respect for, for taking this thread off topic. But I will NOT apologize for my comments regarding his breaking the forum rules which all here, including Kevin, should have been aware of due to bladsmith's recent post re: such threads and the locked threads - either the rules apply to ALL or they should apply to none, NO matter how "important" the person may be.

Personally I HIGHLY dislike putting any folks on a pedestal, no matter who (and I've met many of the greats in both knife making and leather crafting), and due to my sheath making skills I've been put there [for me an uncomfortable feeling since my "ego" is well intact and I don;lt like being a "gawd". Frankly I don't care who it is but after 51+ years in knife making and leather crafting and meeting many of the famous (and often hallowed "gurus") IMO NO ONE is the end all and be all.
On the other hand I do wonder why Kevin removed his original post? IMO HE did nothing wrong per se (except start an "illegal" thread and the gorgeous knife including sheath was and should be an inspiration to all, especially for those making "historical" pieces.
As for my previous comment re: attitude differences I should have said "approach": IMO different strokes and neither is "wrong" per se based on the end use/user

i.e. Kevin makes "improved" historical pieces using his knowledge of metallurgy.
I on the other hand make historical pieces based on the actual products of the period (mostly pre-1850). i.e. I use actual/repro steels of the period or modern equivalents and heat treat them to what was common for the period, which is usually much "softer" than the heat treat used today. My customer base and I want to experience the past as close as possible as our ancestors did so we use knives and other gear made as close to the originals, in both methods and materials as possible. Again no right or wrong, - it's all dependent on the circumstances again NO right or wrong.......
 
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I don't want to add to the drama here, we're trying to improve our forum here. But I'd like applaud Kevin for a well intended attempt to contribute here and Wild Rose for putting forth rational civil discussion about a subject that was sure to have him on the loosing end of popular consensus, that takes gonads.

I'd like to point out this isn't a democracy, this is Sparks playground and we are not enforcing laws. So it comes down to moderator opinion. My opinion is the balance of content contribution from Keven outweighs his benefit from posting this knife. That is my view. It is a judgement. It isn't more valid that any other person's. If we were enforcing laws it would be different, but nowhere is it written that the internet has to be fair.
 
Bruce Bump said:
Hi Brian, son,
This reminds me of the kindness this forum showed to me in 1999. I was a registered member and some body signed me up as a paid member. These are some of the finest people on the world wide web.
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Thanks Pops!

I just think this is silly. It's hijacking the thread about an awesome dagger and Kevin was obviously merely sharing his work. The rule is in place to keep knifemakers from self promoting without paying for the benefit Kevin has proven time and again with his exhaustive, lengthy posts on meralurgy, and his membership in the ABS that he's more interested in promoting knowledge than promoting himself.
I honestly want to see more info on the dagger and it will be a shame if that doesn't happen.
 
Some folks may have noticed that Kevin has been mostly absent from our forum here in the last 6 plus months, only showing up if somebody lets him know that there is something people are specifically asking hm to contribute to. My guess is that he didn't see Bladsmith's thread about the rules for posting photo threads and was thus unaware of the current enforcement of the rules. I have started to follow this forum less and less myself because of the personality conflicts demonstrated and the squabbling. Funny thing, I get a lot more work done! I am a paid member so I can show off sometimes, but last time my membership came due I seriously pondered whether my ego was worth the money

-Page
 
Calvin Richardson said:
I think that there is a difference between marketing a knife and just sharing what one has done. I know that personally posts such as this keep me going and keep me inspired. They also serve as motivation to do better and strive for greater things. Thank you Kevin.
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I agree with what you say, but apparently Sparks doesn't. I have never posted a pic of a knife that was not sold, or spoken for when it was posted, but I am not allowed to do so anymore. Those are the rules. As much as I like and admire Kevin and his work, he broke the rule. I also admire that he requested the post to be removed. A good number of members on this board agreed with Sparks about the rule, and that is the way it stands. If any of you disagree with the rule, then take it up with Sparks, but don't complain about another member who points out what appears as favoritism being shown. It may be that Sparks owns the board, and is his to do with as he sees fit, but favoritism nevers sets well, and nearly always causes hard feelings. IMO, the rule should be applied to everyone, or no one. Enforce, or discard.
 
Right! Don't give Kevin a "pass." Instead, why not give him a free lifetime membership in recognition of the entire book worth of contribution he has made to this forum for free?:)
 
Posting Photos - Who can and can't ?

Thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...can-t?highlight=Posting+photos-+Who+can+can't

A quote from the moderator:

"There is some discussion in the mods arena about the number of people posting photos of their knives. We aren't referring to whether the photo is hosted on this or another server, but if the person has the membership level to post ANY photo of a knife he made.

The rules state that only those paying members with Manufacturer, Knifemaker, or Service Provider memberships can post photos of their knives.

"The only members who may promote or display their personally built knives, services and/or products in the discussion threads or via their signature or home page listing in their user profile are "Manufacturers", "Dealers" and "Knifemaker/Craftsman/Service Providers".
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/an...php?f=746&a=98

This is a bit strange sounding on Shop Talk, so I want to try and defuse any screams of "But it's my right!" before they go up.

If you post a photo of a knife you made, and you sell the knives you make, then you are a knifemaker. That requires a paid membership if you want to post those photos.
By posting photos of knives you make, you are using Bladeforums to promote your knife sales, and distribute your photos. This is a form of commerce, and a privilege of paid membership.

Photos of hot gals in your forge, or the shop dog are fine, but knives you made are not....without the proper membership level.

How should we deal with this?????
1) - If you make knives ( or materials, etc.) and sell them, even part time or as a hobby supplement, then you are a knifemaker/service provider/dealer. Be a real citizen of this great community, and buy a membership. That will end the problem for you. This also gives you the right to sell your knives and materials in the exchange.

2) - Don't post those photos if you don't want to buy a membership. No one is going to send you a bill. It is voluntary, but there are rules. Follow the rules, and no one cares if you don't pay........just don't post photos of knives you make.

3) - I will try and send a PM or email to those who post photos without membership, but those people are usually not accessible by PM or email, so I will try to be tactful and just delete the photos and post a note to email or PM me about the problem. I am not going on a witch hunt and search every thread, but will try and spot the offenders as i see them. You all can help by making a comment on any thread that seems to be in violation of this rule. Something like:
" Did you know that only paying knifemaker members can post knife photos?"

Now I know the line between a knifemaker who sells his wares to make money ( even just to pay for supplies) , and a maker who sells a few knives to friends and family is hard to define, but if you watch that maker for a while, the line isn't hard to see.
Newer members who are just getting into knifemaking will be excited to show what they have done...and we encourage that. They will sell a knife or two and feel like "One of the big guys". That is good,too. By the time they are selling the bulk of the knives they make, it is time to pony up or quit posting photos. Anyone who has a knife making website, attends a show as a table holder, sells on ebay, etc. won't be given any doubt - Get a membership or get a stern warning. It has been recommended that points be given for habitual offenders, but you all know that isn't my style. In my mod term, I haven't given a point yet. I think we can all be reasonable without being punitive. That said, the super mods will strike anyone who isn't following the rules and is flagrant about it.

Lets see if we can clean up this on Shop Talk, and be an example of how and why Bladeforums is the #1 knifemaking spot on the INTERNET."
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(Clarification) Fresh Start - Lets Try Again

Thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/955938-Fresh-Start-Lets-Try-Again
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Really? You can just hop over to another forum and people are making jokes about why
they're no longer here.
Ken.
 
I think what this is all about is RULES, they have too apply to all cases and if they don't need to be there get rid of them! No matter how big or how small, how talented or not talented you are when you are in some one else sandbox you have to play by there rules!

I have never posted a pic of a knife I had up for sale, but I have posted pics when someone asked how to do something and I had a knife I had built that had that particular element in it! Now if I understand the rule I can't post a pic of any knife if I don't have a paid membership. Come on I don't want to use your sandbox and then po po in it. I just want to be like everyone else and abide by the rules!

So maybe it's time to re-thunk the the rules, on picture posting!

I want to learn from all pics of knives not just the ones that belong to a member who has a paid membership. I have seen a few newbies that just have a natural talent and IMO it's a dern shame to not see what they are doing!


Keep all sales in the sales section and let us learn from all pics good, bad, or ugly!
 
I love Kevin's work. I would hate for him to not post anymore after this. I would contribute for a paid membership for Kevin as well.
 
My guess is that Kevin chooses not to have a paid membership here, not that he is unable to cover the costs... I was of the opinion that there was some hype to the discussion of the bigger guys not coming around anymore due to the direction things are going (Especially in Shop Talk). Now I see very clearly that it is in fact the case.

Having said that, If forcing a "knife maker membership" on Mr. Cashen means he will post more here I am all for donating to the cause. Maybe there should be an "Educational Fund" for this sort of situation.

Kevin I hope you come back to this thread and not let a few "Letter of the Law" people put an end to your contributions.
 
I totally agree.

Kevin posted here with his peers not over at the "Customs" forums. If he was fishing he should have cast his line into the water not on the bank.

John Frankl said:
Right! Don't give Kevin a "pass." Instead, why not give him a free lifetime membership in recognition of the entire book worth of contribution he has made to this forum for free?:)
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added: I'm willing to bet that if somebody copies every informative post Kevin has put on Blade Forums and prints it into a "Book of Heat Treating" it would be a money making proposition. He has been shaping all of us, Including me for many many years simply from the goodness of his heart. I see this post from him as one to his friends. How many collectors are on "Shop Talk"?
 
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