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Really, this isn't about whether Kevin has the money to buy a membership or not!

I can pony up the dough today to buy a membership. The moment I buy it, (the membership) will not make me any better or any worse of a knife maker!

Some of you need to listen to what is being said on other sites, as Ken said. There are some big name makers who have walked away from this site! That should say something is wrong! Damn I like this site but I swear somedays I would rather deal with a bunch of school kids at least I know what to expect there.

This is about rules.

If you don't like the rule then change it, or at least stand up and say it needs to be changed. I learn something every time I see a pic of a knife and now some of the biggest names in this game will not be able to post pics of their knives because of this rule! They don't need to be posting here to sell there knives most if not all of there sales come from other venues!

I can see the rule about pics for sales but as far as I can tell their is not suppose to be any pics period related to the sale of knives on Shop Talk anyway!

So if you haven't gleaned the point I am trying to make in my ramblings.

I am going on record that the picture rule needs to be changed, let the chips fall where they may, like me or not for it I really don't care. At least I am saying how I truly feel!

A picture doesn't mean I am trying to make a sale. Its a way of seeing what is good and bad in a knife if you want to sell it go to the sales section.!
 
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The Forum administration has drawn a line in the sand. Paid Knifemakers on one side and unpaid on the other side.

But since the Unpaid knifemakers such as Kevin and others really have no incentive to post valuable information here they wont. They are allowed to write an informative post about knives they make but they are not allowed to put a "picture" up?

The same logic that forbids them from posting a picture can also apply to them making a post at all. If the administration feels a non paid knifemaker is using the form to advertise with a picture, then why do not feel that same way about an informative post made by the same knifemaker?

"We want your knowledge for free, but we do not want you to post a picture of it unless you pay us first"

In my opinion it is obvious when someone is using the forum solely as a sales tool and they should be dealt with on a case per case basis. But to penalize a knifemaker who wants to share his work with others in shop talk, because that is how we learn and become inspired, will only hurt the forum and it is not in its best interest.

I say let knifemakers post picts in shop talk.... You want their words and experience but not pictures of the end result?.... nonsense
 
Kevin, I am so glad I clicked on this thread before the pictures were taken down. That was a stunning dagger.

If we are buying Kevin a membership I'll pitch in. If we loose the knowledgeable people like him, and others, it is the people that frequent, and pay this forum, that loose.
 
Threads like this bother me to no end. I know that I'm still a newbie and that I haven't contributed much of anything. I have learned quite a bit here. I can also understand both sides of the arguement. I'm not trying to offend anyone with the things I have posted, but if someone posts a picture of what they are working on and ask for an opinion, would you ask for them to be blocked? I doubt very strongly that I will have much to do with forum anymore. I know that amount to a gnats fart but just my opinion. Gentlemen, and I use that term loosely in certain cases, I bid you good day.
 
I am possibly going to be slapped for this... I feel that this "Posting Photos" problem has been blown way out of proportion due to a moderator making a public announcement that should have been handled behind the scenes. If in fact as stated by that moderator there are only a "Handful of offenders" why turn this into what we see here in this thread! Send some PM's and handle it on a case by case basis. Now we have everyone moderating who can post what!

Wild Rose just because you have been contacted (my assumption) about posting photos in your threads, doesn't mean you have to police these forums. Unlike you... Kevin is not selling knives to Joe public, you try to buy a knife from Kevin! This is a sad day... I love these forums and have learned 70-80% of what I know about Knife making here. the other 20% has been from people like Kevin sharing work and real life experience with me for FREE!
 
AVigil said:
The Forum administration has drawn a line in the sand. Paid Knifemakers on one side and unpaid on the other side.

But since the Unpaid knifemakers such as Kevin and others really have no incentive to post valuable information here they wont. They are allowed to write an informative post about knives they make but they are not allowed to put a "picture" up?

The same logic that forbids them from posting a picture can also apply to them making a post at all. If the administration feels a non paid knifemaker is using the form to advertise with a picture, then why do not feel that same way about an informative post made by the same knifemaker?

"We want your knowledge for free, but we do not want you to post a picture of it unless you pay us first"

In my opinion it is obvious when someone is using the forum solely as a sales tool and they should be dealt with on a case per case basis. But to penalize a knifemaker who wants to share his work with others in shop talk, because that is how we learn and become inspired, will only hurt the forum and it is not in its best interest.

I say let knifemakers post picts in shop talk.... You want their words and experience but not pictures of the end result?.... nonsense
Click to expand...

Another thing to consider is how some of the more established and/or knowledgeable members draw traffic to Bladeforums aside from pix. Using myself as an example, if you do a Google search for "reticulated silver" Bladeforums pops up, already on page 2 of the search. This helps bring anyone who is interested in that topic to Bladeforums and helps them gain more paying members etc. This is just one example.

It’s a good give and take,… without the givers being taken.

The paradox is that, for the very same reasons some are not allowed to post pix are the very same reasons that the should.
 
This thread took a turn that is just downright disappointing. No wonder some of the better known makers avoid this place....such a shame.
 
I see the problem as the intersection of the fact that Spark, very reasonably, wants money for what is essentially advertising, and knifemakers/craftsmen/service providers who have no need to advertise showing knives they have made. All Kevin has to do to get more orders than he can fill is post an announcement that he is taking orders on his website. Wild Rose had no need to advertise here on the forum with pictures or anything else. Both of them come to contribute and show off the occasional knife or two. However, according to the rules, they should have to pay because they make their money off of this. They don't care enough to pay, and so spark loses nothing in that he was never going to get money from these two, and we lose two people who are experts and masters at what they do. Is this where we want the forum to go? I don't know. It is sparks sandbox. What he says goes. Whether we decide to stay or not is a whole different matter. Maybe Shop Talk will become the next example of a website that took one very wrong turn and became a graveyard. Only time will tell.
 
RyanW said:
My guess is that Kevin chooses not to have a paid membership here, not that he is unable to cover the costs... I was of the opinion that there was some hype to the discussion of the bigger guys not coming around anymore due to the direction things are going (Especially in Shop Talk). Now I see very clearly that it is in fact the case.

Having said that, If forcing a "knife maker membership" on Mr. Cashen means he will post more here I am all for donating to the cause. Maybe there should be an "Educational Fund" for this sort of situation.

Kevin I hope you come back to this thread and not let a few "Letter of the Law" people put an end to your contributions.
Click to expand...

I would make a small wager that Kevin would not accept a free membership if offered. If he wanted a membership, he would have already bought it himself.
 
Dixieblade57 said:
Really, this isn't about whether Kevin has the money to buy a membership or not!

I can pony up the dough today to buy a membership. The moment I buy it, (the membership) will not make me any better or any worse of a knife maker!

Some of you need to listen to what is being said on other sites, as Ken said. There are some big name makers who have walked away from this site! That should say something is wrong! Damn I like this site but I swear somedays I would rather deal with a bunch of school kids at least I know what to expect there.

This is about rules.

If you don't like the rule then change it, or at least stand up and say it needs to be changed. I learn something every time I see a pic of a knife and now some of the biggest names in this game will not be able to post pics of their knives because of this rule! They don't need to be posting here to sell there knives most if not all of there sales come from other venues!

I can see the rule about pics for sales but as far as I can tell their is not suppose to be any pics period related to the sale of knives on Shop Talk anyway!

So if you haven't gleaned the point I am trying to make in my ramblings.

I am going on record that the picture rule needs to be changed, let the chips fall where they may, like me or not for it I really don't care. At least I am saying how I truly feel!

A picture doesn't mean I am trying to make a sale. Its a way of seeing what is good and bad in a knife if you want to sell it go to the sales section.!
Click to expand...

Well said Dixie !! +1
 
Well, I have to say I am a little disappointed as well. I am primarily a collector (obviously) but also a rank amateur bladesmith, so I visit here alot.
I think that the pictures that are posted here ARE an inspiration to us all, and I also think it is pretty easy to tell what is "selling" and what is "showing"...but I am not a moderator, and I don't envy them their jobs :p

I do agree that "rules are rules" and SPark can do what he wishes....but I think (personally) that this is "throwing the baby out with the bath water"

Kevin is NOT a "rule-breaker" type - everyone knows that !
Further, he is the LAST person who would EVER ask for "special treatment"

It is abundantly clear that he posted this, as he does every year - as a "show" not a "sell" and based on the date of his last previous post it is clear he had no idea of the rule change!

Politely pointing that out would have been the way to go, IMHO, and I think some bad feelings could have been avoided

Bill Flynn
 
LRB said:
I would make a small wager that Kevin would not accept a free membership if offered. If he wanted a membership, he would have already bought it himself.
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I've been privately offered a knifemaker membership paid for by third parties, but don't plan on taking the offers up.

... doubt too many others would either.

However, they were very generous and done with nothing but good intentions.
 
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I’m not planning on leaving the forum...

… but when it gets to the point that anything/everything I think, do, say and/or show is considered self promotion, it’s a no win situation when all you want is to be part of the group.

At that point, I’ll probably still hang around for humor and entertainment… which will most likely get me banned. ;) LOL
 
Tai Goo said:
I’ll probably still hang around for humor and entertainment… which will most likely get me banned. ;) LOL
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Sorry but at your current level of membership you only qualify for "Hang around" part.

Humor and entertainment will require an upgrade in your current membership status :p
 
AVigil said:
Sorry but at your current level of membership you only qualify for "Hang around" part.

Humor and entertainment will require an upgrade in your current membership status :p
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Hey! If nothing else, I'll play by the rules...

.... I won’t go any cyberwhere special without a good clean banning and few laughs! LOL ;D

History repeats itself... :)

We am who we am...
 
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I love it sometimes when folks forget there's a rhetoric and compositionist ABD present.

This is a premeditated attack by Chuck, aspects of his initial rant were discussed off forum as areas were rehearsed. It's no small secret why such an attack was made: retribution for debunking freezer BS and other aspects of good old boyism; the very mentality that has retarded knifemaking from entering the new century.
No, Chuck set up, Tai withthe rebound; so when does Fowler show up for the hootinanny and the real circle jerk begin? Grown men acting in such a fashion, and against a man who has done more to preserve the art then they've done or ever will--and primarily for nothing more than avarice. Pathetic.

You reap what you sow.

Good day.

Edit: Tai, you're headed down Shiv Kai's path, not something you wanted for yourself...meditate.
 
Ed Braun said:
I love it sometimes when folks forget there's a rhetoric and compositionist ABD present.

This is a premeditated attack by Chuck, aspects of his initial rant were discussed off forum as areas were rehearsed. It's no small secret why such an attack was made: retribution for debunking freezer BS and other aspects of good old boyism; the very mentality that has retarded knifemaking from entering the new century.
No, Chuck set up, Tai withthe rebound; so when does Fowler show up for the hootinanny and the real circle jerk begin? Grown men acting in such a fashion, and against a man who has done more to preserve the art then they've done or ever will--and primarily for nothing more than avarice. Pathetic.

You reap what you sow.

Good day.

Edit: Tai, you're headed down Shiv Kai's path, not something you wanted for yourself...meditate.
Click to expand...

Show us a knife you made. :)

We'll critique it.
 
I think Kevin did the right thing by taking the picture off and bowing out. I respect that.

This is no fault of Kevin's. He's just trying to help... to inspire etc. I don't agree with him on everything, but I think he has shown that he is sincere and believes what he says.

It's not about Kevin... or any one personally.

It's about things beyond our control and authority for which we carry no responsibly for. We're just players. We don't make the rules.
 
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Ed Braun said:
I love it sometimes when folks forget there's a rhetoric and compositionist ABD present.

This is a premeditated attack by Chuck, aspects of his initial rant were discussed off forum as areas were rehearsed. It's no small secret why such an attack was made: retribution for debunking freezer BS and other aspects of good old boyism; the very mentality that has retarded knifemaking from entering the new century.
No, Chuck set up, Tai withthe rebound; so when does Fowler show up for the hootinanny and the real circle jerk begin? Grown men acting in such a fashion, and against a man who has done more to preserve the art then they've done or ever will--and primarily for nothing more than avarice. Pathetic.

You reap what you sow.

Good day.

Edit: Tai, you're headed down Shiv Kai's path, not something you wanted for yourself...meditate.
Click to expand...

Sorry but you are SO FAR off the mark it's pitiful - yes Tai and are friends and collaborators, but I have a brain of my own and DID not premeditate or discuss this with ANYONE before posting (also you might use spell check). As far as avarice - you again are way off the mark - I DO NOT need this forum or any other to keep my business going (currently 9 months back ordered and NONE of the orders are via BF or any other forum for that matter ) - so get a life and take your attitude and put it where the sun don't shine. As for offering info for free - Kevin is just one among many - go look up my posts I have given LOTS of free info, but again this is NOT about me or Kevin or anyone else in particular, but about a RULE that based on current observation gets broken by some with allowance, but for others no way.......

Again this had NOTHING TO DO with Kevin, but rather that certain folks apparently get a pass on the rules and yes despite "opinion", based on the rules as recently posted, Kevin DID break them despite the spin...and as far as Kevin not selling to Joe public, bull puckey, he like many others who post here are professionals who sell their goods.....don't believe me? GOOGLE him and see what he has offered for sale.

And for those who want to keep up with Kevin - it's simple go to Knife Dogs- he's got his own forum there - makes you wonder eh? I also wonder where the mod(s) are........

as for the rest - my last word - and yep a sad day and you're right , but it's the the BF circle jerk/circle the wagons attitude has begun for the chosen few............
 
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