A bug out bags purpose?

[forcedestrike]

Some very good points, I feel I have to point out that I write from my perspective and as such living in a warm climate I don't even think about needing a sleeping bag

As long as I can shelter from the wind I will be ok.

I would imagine that one could build a quick shelter (Debris hut style) using branches and vegetation, build a fire, pad the inside of makeshift shelter with leaves/garbage bags and one would be fine for 1 night no? You make a very good point sir and as such I will have to think about a solution!


I really don't see what I would use an axe for in 3days- if we are talking longterm sure but for 3days?

Not sure about rural parts of America with regards to what people expect you to have- but I wrote in primarily for someone bugging out of suburbia and urban areas in general- Frankly if I lived in a rural area why on earth would I leave it?

And yes I am an urban kid (but I am trying to break the habit ) !

EDIT: with regards to shelter I would also suggest a Tree-Pit Snow Shelter however taking into account that I have never built one I am not sure about its efficiency, what are you thoughts on them?

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/shelters-2.php#fig5_12

I have to say the OP is really situation dependant, and seems to come from an urban mindset. A few things I find wrong:

1.) No sleeping bag. Sleeping bag is too heavy, but you'll carry 3 days of water? Even at 1 gallon a day, that's 3 gallons, or about 26 pounds when you factor containers. 3 Gallons would get you through one day in the summer where I live. Much better use of volume and weight would be to carry a couple nalgenes/canteens and a water filter and some purification tabs. MUCH less wieght and bulk. I'd also take my 3 pound sleeping bag and 2 pound bivy sack.

2.) 12 energy bars. Not going to cut it for 3 days. You will use a huge amount of calories walking about. You need to calculate you basal metabolic rate (the number of calories your body would burn if you just sat around doing nothing), and plan on that as a minimum per day for 3 days. Otherwise your body goes into "survival mode" -- it cuts back your metabolism, which leads to degradation of energy level and higher brain functions, lethergy, and when you do get some calories, the body tries to make as many of them into fat as a reserve as possible. Contrary to popular thinking, having a huge calorie defecit is actually BAD for weight loss. So that "survival spare tire" won't be used as quickly as you may think.

3.) Bug out location. How many actually have one? Most people are struggling to own one mplace to live right now and can't afford another. If you plan on bugging out to a place you don't own, or don't visit frequently, plan on having your stuff gone.

4.) Guns are completely situation dependant. I live in a very rural area. I'd probably be the odd man out if I didn't have a rifle. Also, my rucksack is big enough to completely conceal my AK underfolder, if necessary.

5.) An axe. If by and axe you mean a full sized axe, I'd agree. If you also include hatchets, I disagree. If you are in, or going to a rural area, a good hatchet/kukri/machete (depending on the area) will be an invaluable tool. And no, the fixed blade knife will not replace them. Again, situation dependant.

ETA: you posted while I was writing. I don't know where you are in Europe, but in the northern areas of the US, and in Canada, not having a sleeping bag int he winter is a death sentance. A trash bag filled with leaves wont cut it. OK, I suppose you could do it like mountain men often did, and sleep in your coat. But by the time you load up your duster, blankets, other layerss they wore, etc, you're up to the weight, really more, than a sleeping bag.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I really don't see what I would use an axe for in 3days- if we are talking longterm sure but for 3days?

To build that fire. Plus, you don't know what or how much work will need to be done at your bug out location when you get there.

Frankly if I lived in a rural area why on earth would I leave it?

Fire. That's about the only thing that I'd bug out for.

EDIT: with regards to shelter I would also suggest a Tree-Pit Snow Shelter however taking into account that I have never built one I am not sure about its efficiency, what are you thoughts on them?

Never tried one, perhaps someone else has experience in the matter.

 

[dougo83]

No, you do not need a sleeping bag or axe to survive.

That is a fact.

Not really. If you try to survive in winter, even say in north Texas, with out a decent sleeping bag, you are going to die. FACT.

You may not need an axe, but you say you can cut a tree with a FB knife. I am calling BS. Yes, you can. However, your caloric expenditure will be much higher than your 12 power bars can make up for. You will starve without means for other food.

If you live in the woods then the only thing you would need to bug out from is a fire, so what is your point?

Or animals, or other idiot people trying to take advantage of the buggers, or tornadoes, etc. ONLY. Here's a quick hint: If you want to automotically discount 90% of what you say, use the following words: 'only' 'always' 'never' 'every', etc.

Again you don't need spare socks to survive. Is it more comfortable? sure. but you don't need it.

Yes, it is much more comfortable to have feet that aren't rotting off. It's no real surprise that the military trains to pack more than one pair. So does nearly every SURVIVAL organizaton I have ever seen.

I never stated "look helpless" but rather blend in with everyone as you get away from the situation- and in a crisis people scream, cry and panic. Don't be the hero because otherwise people will silently elect you as the leader and expect you to do everything for them. In a crisis my only priority is myself and my family- as such I don't want to appear as someone prepared based on the majority being unprepared and looking for someone like myself or you to tell them what to do.

Why are you buggin with a bunch of people? Take the road less traveled, my friend. Noone can 'elect' you to do somethign you don't accept. I'm sorry, but if someone says 'hey, doug, you're in charge' I willl pretend as though I didn't hear them. Will I assist? Yes, will I risk my family and myself? Absolutely not.

I want to blend in around people but the moment I am away from the dangerzone (away from people and the crisis area) I can act as assertively as I normally do.

The closest I want to be to blending in with those around me is the fact that we are all human and posess general similar traits. I am not concerned about LE, or anyone else for that matter, spotting me. I can and will evade at whatever cost I deem necessary. The moment you attempt to prohibit me from ensuring the safety of me and mine, you are a threat and will be dealt with or evaded.

I hope that answers most of your queries, what is your current bug out kit out of interest? & do you base your bug out kit purely on your environment or do you have a general purpose BOB?

I think all of our BOBs are based on environment. Many people do not travel very far from their familiar area, so they would generally pack what is needed in their area. I do have a basic BOB which I will inventory later that I can add more depending on the area. For example, if I were in AZ or something, I would pack more water and less iodine.

I just saw about the tree pit snow shelter. One of the key elements of surviving is not burning up all of your calories in mindless work. I cold burn next to 0 calories by laying out a sleeping bag and getting as close to natural cover as possible. Or dig a 6-foot hole http://survivalx.com/survival-shelters/tree-pit-snow-shelter.html and burn probably 1000cal.

 

[forcedestrike]

Not really. If you try to survive in winter, even say in north Texas, with out a decent sleeping bag, you are going to die. FACT.

I wonder how our ancestors survived without climate rated sleeping bags.

There is always an alternative, you underestimate the resilience of the human body and survival instinct.

You may not need an axe, but you say you can cut a tree with a FB knife. I am calling BS. Yes, you can. However, your caloric expenditure will be much higher than your 12 power bars can make up for. You will starve without means for other food.

Oh sure, without 3 meals a day I will suddenly drop off and die, food is everywhere if you know where to look for it. I will not starve just be exhausted, hence pacing yourself is a good idea- I am not talking about taking down a huge fully grown tree (why would you need a fully grown tree to survive for 3 days???) but rather thick branches and saplings.

Or animals, or other idiot people trying to take advantage of the buggers, or tornadoes, etc. ONLY. Here's a quick hint: If you want to automotically discount 90% of what you say, use the following words: 'only' 'always' 'never' 'every', etc.

And camo gear will totally save your life should that happen :jerkit:

Yes, it is much more comfortable to have feet that aren't rotting off. It's no real surprise that the military trains to pack more than one pair. So does nearly every SURVIVAL organizaton I have ever seen.

Damn. so your telling me because the military and nearly every SURVIVAL organization says so that if I don't change my socks everyday my feet will fall off?
I bow down to your rational argument, how can I possibly retort to such a logical and well documented fact?

I will risk it.

Why are you buggin with a bunch of people? Take the road less traveled, my friend. Noone can 'elect' you to do somethign you don't accept. I'm sorry, but if someone says 'hey, doug, you're in charge' I willl pretend as though I didn't hear them. Will I assist? Yes, will I risk my family and myself? Absolutely not.

I completely agree, that being said I live in an urban enviroment and as such people are expected.

The closest I want to be to blending in with those around me is the fact that we are all human and posess general similar traits. I am not concerned about LE, or anyone else for that matter, spotting me. I can and will evade at whatever cost I deem necessary. The moment you attempt to prohibit me from ensuring the safety of me and mine, you are a threat and will be dealt with or evaded.

I agree completely that being said I am not rambo and as such I would rather not risk catching a bullet because I don't think I could shrug it off with a manly grunt and carry on dealing and/or evading the threat!

I think all of our BOBs are based on environment. Many people do not travel very far from their familiar area, so they would generally pack what is needed in their area. I do have a basic BOB which I will inventory later that I can add more depending on the area. For example, if I were in AZ or something, I would pack more water and less iodine.

Also agree with! Can't really disagree with any of that.

I just saw about the tree pit snow shelter. One of the key elements of surviving is not burning up all of your calories in mindless work. I cold burn next to 0 calories by laying out a sleeping bag and getting as close to natural cover as possible. Or dig a 6-foot hole http://survivalx.com/survival-shelters/tree-pit-snow-shelter.html and burn probably 1000cal.

That was just curiosity on my part, I would not dream of advising it if bugging out

 

[forcedestrike]

To build that fire. Plus, you don't know what or how much work will need to be done at your bug out location when you get there.

I am not sure what sort of fires you are used to but I don't need an axe/hatchet to build a fire.

Fire. That's about the only thing that I'd bug out for.

Thats what I thought! Eventually I see myself living in a rural area unfortunately lack of economic stimulus (read: jobs being created) means I am stuck in the city for the time being.

 

[dougo83]

I wonder how our ancestors survived without climate rated sleeping bags.

There is always an alternative, you underestimate the resilience of the human body and survival instinct.

I guess that depends on how far back you wish to look. From the pics I have seen, looks like animal skins (read the sleeping bag's predecessor) Even more recently, it has been horse blankets and the like.

Oh sure, without 3 meals a day I will suddenly drop off and die, food is everywhere if you know where to look for it. I will not starve just be exhausted, hence pacing yourself is a good idea- I am not talking about taking down a huge fully grown tree (why would you need a fully grown tree to survive for 3 days???) but rather thick branches and saplings.

Never said anything about 3 meals/day. Hell, I don't eat that now. However, if you are truly buggin, you are gonna use alot of calories. I do a lot of hiking with a range of different people. We noticed marked increases in caloric needs. The body needs energy. You will start to fade without it. Also, I was not really referring to only 3 days. I forgot to mention that one little part. I think that if I was truly buggin, 3 days is probably only the star. Case in point, Katrina...many of those areas are still in the sh*tter.

And camo gear will totally save your life should that happen :jerkit:

Ah..refute a valid point with sarcasm that makes absoutely no sense. Where did anyone, I'm too lazy to start at the beginning of the thread, especially me, use the word 'camo' or any such variation?

Damn. so your telling me because the military and nearly every SURVIVAL organization says so that if I don't change my socks everyday my feet will fall off?
I bow down to your rational argument, how can I possibly retort to such a logical and well documented fact?

I will risk it.

I witnessed a mild case of the foot thing in the Grand Canyon. Not really great having to carry your buddy out because he is having trouble walking. That being said, I carry only 1 extra pair and some talcum. I just hope I can have a fire at night.

I completely agree, that being said I live in an urban enviroment and as such people are expected.

That is why I have been running from the urban prison.

I agree completely that being said I am not rambo and as such I would rather not risk catching a bullet because I don't think I could shrug it off with a manly grunt and carry on dealing and/or evading the threat!

Agreed. I luck out and live in a more rural area and would probably be pretty well set for evasion. And...sorry your manly grunt hasn't been working out for you. I used it to single-handedly rescue a capsized boat and crew.

That was just curiosity on my part, I would not dream of advising it if bugging out

Yep...not sure that I would advise it. Thankfully, my current location keeps the fluffy white stuff away. It gets cold, but I have yet to see snow stick to the ground.

 

[forcedestrike]

From the pics I have seen, looks like animal skins (read the sleeping bag's predecessor)

My point is that you can always make or rustle together an alternative.

Never said anything about 3 meals/day. Hell, I don't eat that now. However, if you are truly buggin, you are gonna use alot of calories. I do a lot of hiking with a range of different people. We noticed marked increases in caloric needs. The body needs energy. You will start to fade without it. Also, I was not really referring to only 3 days. I forgot to mention that one little part. I think that if I was truly buggin, 3 days is probably only the star. Case in point, Katrina...many of those areas are still in the sh*tter.

Agree with that completely- but with high energy tablets to get outside the city, build shelter, set traps before collapsing and for the next couple of days just live off the land (snares, edible plants, fishing if your in the right area ect.) and settle in until things cool off.

Ah..refute a valid point with sarcasm that makes absoutely no sense. Where did anyone, I'm too lazy to start at the beginning of the thread, especially me, use the word 'camo' or any such variation?

Someone else, my apologies.

I witnessed a mild case of the foot thing in the Grand Canyon. Not really great having to carry your buddy out because he is having trouble walking. That being said, I carry only 1 extra pair and some talcum. I just hope I can have a fire at night.

Aye, have bugged/hiked out in the past with my minimal gear with no adverse effects so maybe I am just really lucky.

That is why I have been running from the urban prison.

I wish I could

Agreed. I luck out and live in a more rural area and would probably be pretty well set for evasion.

We seem to agree a lot except when we disagree.

Yep...not sure that I would advise it. Thankfully, my current location keeps the fluffy white stuff away. It gets cold, but I have yet to see snow stick to the ground.

Sounds good, what sort of shelter do you build in your environment?

 

[dougo83]

I live in the Texas Hill Country. My main concerns for shelter, regardless of the time of year, are the following, in this order.

1. Rain
2. Sun
3. Wind

Usually, a 4x6 tarp is my friend. I have never tested in an area with no trees, but I have found in the past a number of trees to rope off to and make a fairly decent bivy. Like I said, I haven't seen snow stick, though it gets cold. I guess I should say that these are my concerns for shelter. Obviously, water is always my #1, unless I have packed substantial quantities.

Side-Note: I don't prefer camo anyway. Still can't find my damn cell phone case.

 

[forcedestrike]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Garnerview3.jpg

Plenty of resources, caves and caverns to explore. Seems awesome!

 

[dougo83]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Garnerview3.jpg

Plenty of resources, caves and caverns to explore. Seems awesome!

Texas has some really nice State Parks. Check out www.tpwd.state.tx.us
some of my favorites are McKinney Falls, Pedernales, and Garner.

There are also tons and tons of county parks and, in the hill country, we have the Lower Colorado River Authority parks like Black Rock, etc.

I am excited, however, to have the opportunity this summer to travel to Montana, maybe, and go see what the wild is really like.

 

[bltjr1951]

I wonder how our ancestors survived without climate rated sleeping bags.
There is always an alternative, you underestimate the resilience of the human body and survival instinct.

So, why do people die when they get lost in the woods overnight during a snowstorm?
Read about it every year in outdoors magazine.

 

[Robert H]

A man just died on Rainier for lack of preparation. Sudden storm, 30 something experienced mountaineer is DEAD, while acting as a ground pad to save the life of his wife.

Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.

And it cost him his life. Small compact bags and a ground pad are very easy and light things to carry. Even the more modern space bags from Adventure Medical. A folded flat insulation pad doesn't even need to cover your whole body. Just the trunk.

Why not include it?

And a better question, have you taken your BoB and slept outdoors with it?

 

[forcedestrike]

Yes I have, however I don't live in a harsh climate, mild weather even at night and as such I built *my* bug out bag based on my needs- obviously if I lived in Alaska my BOB would change somewhat.

Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.

Could not agree with you more, but equipment is worthless if you don't have the knowledge to use it or a good understanding of your terrain.

Preparation involves actually experimenting with what you have, knowing your equipments limitations and what you can do with it.

 

[forcedestrike]

Lack of preparation and/or knowledge with regards to what you can construct using natural resources.

 

[forcedestrike]

It would be interesting to get some feedback after your trip with regards to what you have discovered.

 

[dougo83]

Yes I have, however I don't live in a harsh climate, mild weather even at night and as such I built *my* bug out bag based on my needs- obviously if I lived in Alaska my BOB would change somewhat.



Could not agree with you more, but equipment is worthless if you don't have the knowledge to use it or a good understanding of your terrain.

Preparation involves actually experimenting with what you have, knowing your equipments limitations and what you can do with it.

If I lived in Alaska, my BOB would fit in my pocket. It would be the first plane ticket I could buy to...I dunno...NOT ALASKA

 

[forcedestrike]

I did try out a slingshot once but my accuracy was so bad that I gave up-

What sort of range can you get accurately?

I am not anti-gun, let me say that up front, however i do not carry a gun in my BOB, I carry a slingshot, with extra bands and lots of ammo. Go ahead and laugh. Not a speedy weapon, however one that is often underestimated. I wouldn't pull it against someone with a gun, but I would against someone with a knife that is threatening me. I carry 1/4" and 3/8" shot and the latter packs quite a punch.
Del

 

[forcedestrike]

This may be a stupid question but whats wrong with Alaska?

(I am from Europe so bare that in mind! )

If I lived in Alaska, my BOB would fit in my pocket. It would be the first plane ticket I could buy to...I dunno...NOT ALASKA

 

[dougo83]

This may be a stupid question but whats wrong with Alaska?

(I am from Europe so bare that in mind! )

It was a joke. It's damn cold. I am from Texas, so I do not appreciated the cold as much as some...Nothing wrong with it per se, some of the most beautiful countryside I have seen pics of...

 

[forcedestrike]

Gotcha! I was confused because from the photographs I have seen I would have to rate it as one of the most beautiful places on earth! I hope to go one day (and test out my no sleeping bag theory! if I come out alive I win. ...just kidding.) .

It was a joke. It's damn cold. I am from Texas, so I do not appreciated the cold as much as some...Nothing wrong with it per se, some of the most beautiful countryside I have seen pics of...