A couple of mid-techs - looking for user feedback

[matus]

Good point about that 'washers versus bearings' topic. I would have there one more questions actually. It seems that most prefer the bearings as these make the flipping action even faster and smoother, but is that the main point of the pivot? From the take-it-apart photos I have seen it seems that the bearings have always smaller diameter than the washers. Also the contact area is much smaller (obviusly). That would make me think that washers should better resist if tangential force is being applied. This may be a non issue as I have see the thread where different bearing Systems Shirogorov uses are tested (was jaw dropping what the knife could withstand), but still - how would the washers perform in such a situation?

Also in the long run - what will be easier to maintain - washers or bearings?

BTW, no problem with pics at all, that Shiro looks awesome

 

[anvil_den]

Good point about that 'washers versus bearings' topic. I would have there one more questions actually. It seems that most prefer the bearings as these make the flipping action even faster and smoother, but is that the main point of the pivot? From the take-it-apart photos I have seen it seems that the bearings have always smaller diameter than the washers. Also the contact area is much smaller (obviusly). That would make me think that washers should better resist if tangential force is being applied. This may be a non issue as I have see the thread where different bearing Systems Shirogorov uses are tested (was jaw dropping what the knife could withstand), but still - how would the washers perform in such a situation?

Also in the long run - what will be easier to maintain - washers or bearings?

BTW, no problem with pics at all, that Shiro looks awesome

While I have a couple of Shiro on washer but they were never tested to such an extent. However my user knives over the last 20 years or so.. believe it or not all are washers. Bearings is only a recent phenomenon for me when I started collecting. For that matter, flippers too

A well made knife on phosphor bronze washers would be my choice for something that sees extensive use in various conditions.

Not all bearings are created equal... generally speaking I don't doubt those used in Shiro.. Opened different ones, SRBS, MRBS etc and put them back, tested out with various concoction of grease/lubes to tune the speed/ action to my liking. I have this unhealthy fetish with grease and bearings from a life time of tinkering with bikes and other stuff and gets a little pedantic when others wouldn't know or care about the minute differences

Over time I do notice that their single row bearings need more slight tightening from time to time than say the rod or multiple row bearings (which have larger and or more contact points). The floating retainer in single row bearings doesn't really count for contact point because if they do they sit snug as when it tightened down hard..it will actually add a lot of stiction.

Hands down, stripping a washer to maintain is pretty much a no brainer. Unlike many other knives, the most common bearing shiros are again the SRBS... and those free balls are tiny and gets lost easily. I move them around during degreasing and putting back with almost surgical dexterity for fear of one of 'em little suckers rolling away...

See some pictures from my articles on various take downs of knives here.

 

[Sikael]

There is quite the thread with all the info
But being bias I would recommend a Shiro. Just been going back to my 95 CF S90 -- 3.75" FFG is pretty much my defacto grind and size as I slice things a lot more in daily tasks. Carson are well made and very smooth knives from the 2 I have handled, an early Exorcist and a Griffin. Not much usage time though.

The only thing is if I were to choose another Shiro as a user-- would go for a washer instead of bearings. I get out into the field and sometimes into real mucky conditions... field strip and assembly of a SRBS bearing shiro really isn't something I like to do in the open.

Been thinking of of a CRK Insingo... shape wise, wharnies would be the most functional for me.

Really like the feel of my Bodega and that nice fluted grind but can't see myself using it. More of because it doesn't suit my needs. Could have kept it ... if I didn't need the funds to roll into another knife... yup another Shiro that just came in

Didn't think it was appropriate to post a pic since it was more about selecting a user piece. But since even a Seasons V Nura already made it here..

Oh well...

:thumbup: That knife made me bark something unintelligible! That's f***ing beautiful... I love the knurled texturing and bronze anodizing; much simpler than something like a 'Seasons V' Nura (didn't know the name, thanks), but every bit as stunning. I think photos of Shirogorov knives should be given BF diplomatic immunity, and be allowed to barge into any thread they want, facepalm the OP, and lounge around looking cool...

 

[anvil_den]

Thanks Sikael. It was also an unintelligible bark the first time I saw a pic of it that set me on the search for one.
This one is called the "Banner" 95... one of those projects where stock Nudies get transformed into something different.
The other special runs in the past were the Dragons and Golf editions.
I posted quite a few pics on my blog and instagram. Wear a bib before you go there...

 

[101N]

Oh my, Anvil_den is THE Admiral Rodcocker of Shirogorov collectors

 

[matus]

The Freeman Flipper should be coming tomorrow I am really curios about it.

Seriously - I keep coming back to that awesome Banner 95 - one of the best looking Shiros I ahve seen so far. I guess that models like this one come in at well over $1000 ... Anyhow, I will probably listen to that advice and should I decide to get a Shiro I will go for one with washers and save a few bucks on the way. Anyhow very most of those with bearings are wit the single row ball bearings. The multi-row cylinder bearings models are probably just the custom-ish ones and thus out of reach.

 

[Sikael]

The Freeman Flipper should be coming tomorrow I am really curios about it.

Seriously - I keep coming back to that awesome Banner 95 - one of the best looking Shiros I ahve seen so far. I guess that models like this one come in at well over $1000 ... Anyhow, I will probably listen to that advice and should I decide to get a Shiro I will go for one with washers and save a few bucks on the way. Anyhow very most of those with bearings are wit the single row ball bearings. The multi-row cylinder bearings models are probably just the custom-ish ones and thus out of reach.

The Freeman is kind of a mystery, so I'm interested to see if you'll like it. The Shiro SRBS is very smooth, much better than KVT bearings (although I had one 0561 that was different, glassy smooth, dropped shut). It's also more solid, more enclosed, and has tighter tolerances than other bearing systems -- the Carson Tech Labs enclosed bearings excepted. I'm not worried about side-to-side pressure, because the pivot is large, the bearing cage is wide, and the gaps are tiny, much smaller than usual (the bearings only extend past the cage by less than 1/32 of an inch, unlike KVT, in which the bearings extend 1/16th on either side..

MRBS is available on the 1000$ Model 111; you can buy Mod 95T's from Vlad, on BF, with the SRBS, for under 700$.

Both my Mod 95's have SRBS, and are very smooth. On the 95T in particular, it literally cannot get any smoother -- there is no friction, no nearly imperceptible feel of rolling, just glass on polished ice... MRBS, SRRBS, and DRRBS are awesome, but more for the Shirogorov connoisseur or custom buyers who don't mind paying another 300-400$ for a bearing system with no detectable advantage, in most ways.

 

[anvil_den]

Oh my, Anvil_den is THE Admiral Rodcocker of Shirogorov collectors

I wouldn't dare stake any claims or title other than admittedly a fanboy
Collections of some folks I have seen, leaves me gawking like a kid given a tour at the candy factory.

Matus... I'm pretty curious, have never seen a Freeman myself.. Some vid action please

 

[matus]

Matus... I'm pretty curious, have never seen a Freeman myself.. Some vid action please

I may give it a try, but I have never made a "product video" before (though quite a few kitchen knife review over at KKF), so do not put your expectations too high. But at least you will get to enjoy my Slavic accent

The knife should arrive today - I can barely concentrate

 

[matus]

The Freeman Flipper has arrived. It makes very good first impression - solid, smooth, ergonomic, nice F&F, and really cool with that green G10 inlay. Looks like a knife that should be able to handle some real work. I will of course have a much closer look, but I also think that this is not the knife I am looking for as I do not expect it to be particularly good slicer, but that is yet to be tested.

 

[101N]

I am new to collecting but - after reading your, Sikael, and BluesBenders posts here -I've decided that a Shirogorov is
going to be my next big purchase. I hope you don't mind if I ask you for advice on where to start. It's hard to
find written data on all of the various models and - where I live in OR - I'll never see or hold one until I purchase one.

The "Flag" photo essay on your blog has the best knife photography I have ever seen.

 

[anvil_den]

The Freeman Flipper has arrived. It makes very good first impression - solid, smooth, ergonomic, nice F&F, and really cool with that green G10 inlay. Looks like a knife that should be able to handle some real work. I will of course have a much closer look, but I also think that this is not the knife I am looking for as I do not expect it to be particularly good slicer, but that is yet to be tested.

I always look to wharnie or those wharnie variants with an upsweep creating a large belly for slicing. Other than that I favor a thin full flat grind, with generous width (~30ish mm at the widest). Like one of my first knife, a Fantoni C.U.T. below. Nice slicing due to shape and combo with the humpback handle. Apart from being wide.. this has one of the widest sharpened edge straight out a factory among all my knives which is a big plus for slicing work. Only thing is I find the spine a little thick and learning from it, that's why the preference for flat grind when buying other similar shape blades for slicing work .

Didn't expect too much when getting this little guy.. but after it arrived, it just became my ultimate slicer... Spydie LUM zdp-189... <3.5" blade but it slices and slices and.... So good, I'm now hunting for the larger 3.75" version in vg10.

 

[matus]

I did come across Fantoni knives (even available here in DE), but did not really look closer. That C.U.T. Flipper however looks very similar in design to Shiro Cannabis ...

 

[shady A.M.]

anvil_den,

I've been following this thread since it started. It's a funny coincidence that you just posted that Fantoni C.U.T. I've been contemplating trying out a Fantoni design for a long time, particularly the C.U.T. flipper. Today I had the great fortune to come across one BNIB at a local gun show. I got it for a very, very reasonable price. So far I'm quite impressed with it. It certainly won't be replacing my Orange Elmax Hati for EDC but I'm going to carry for a few weeks to see how well it does. I will agree it does have wide, sharpened edge. It reminds me of Spyderco's grinds on the Military and Para II. The spine is thick but it cuts well with the wide grind. For the price I paid, this one is probably going to stay in rotation with me. I love the attention to detail on the liners. This is my first Fantoni and so far it's lived up to the hype.

Matus,

The C.U.T. is a Dimitry Sinkevich design. His designs are mostly associated with his collaborations with Shirogorov but he has collaborated with a few other production manufacturers outside of Russia.

 

[matus]

it looks like I am will get a Southard Tolk from from a member here (if everything goes well). I am very curios about it

... and done! Southard Tolk it is

 

[anvil_den]

Matus-- the Fantoni C.U.T. is the production version of another Shiro/ Sinkevich knife. Not the Cannabis but the Tetra, another of those 100 piece special edition. Outside of Russia not many know of the Tetra as Shiro knives hasn't gotten popular during that time.

Another of Sidi designs that made it into production is the ZT454... but again before those, the first 65 are a Shiro/Sidi collab called the Koordinal. 3 more 1 off uber special pieces were made by Sidi himself for the last TKI show earlier this year.

The Cannabis is a 200 pc collab plus another 100 for TNK- -the Cannabis True. I played with one of those Russian Cannabis-Real last week. What I really want to at least see and fondle is the Cannabis Ice-- damascus version.. very top end of the Cannabis bunch.

shady A.M. - Agree, overall its a nice knife. I probably sounded a little critical in my earlier comment. Just the pedantic me talking again. In fact I was carrying the CUT again today on my bike ride. Still loving it

 

[matus]

I will now first wait and see how does the Southard Tolk work for me (I hope it will, it looks great and it is apparently very well made knife).

Now I see why Shiro Cannabis is so hard to find I think they should re-introduce it. After all, apar from the 110, 111 models all the rest is basically the same knife with differences in pivot and handle contruction

Oh and that Freeman Flipper 451. I am not sure I will manage to pull off a video, but will take a few photos today and post a brief report on it, and than it will go back. it is a cool knife, but way more 'knife' than I could ever put to use. It will not be easy to part with it though.

 

[matus]

So, while the Tolk is in the shipping, HERE you can find a short write-up about the Freeman 451 Fipper.

And a little apetizer

 

[Sikael]

So, while the Tolk is in the shipping, HERE you can find a short write-up about the Freeman 451 Fipper.

And a little apetizer

Good choice on the Tolk! :thumbup: I've heard almost entirely good things about both Southard midtechs, and the prices are pretty damn reasonable.

 

[matus]

I have an update here - though not a happy one. The Tolk has not arrived yet and since it was about 8 weeks a claim will be filed by the seller (who otherwise was very supportive and helpful). I guess that will take some time and I will wait until the whole process will be over, but for the time being I have basically 2-3 more months to consider what knife to get in this size/utility class. I have top admit - if the knife really got lost in the shipping, than it will be the first item I have received or shipped that ever got lost. And I have shipped/received some 50 - 100 packages worldwide over past 10 years. So I guess I am actually very lucky.

Still - I was really looking forward to try the Tolk ...