A folder's potential role in subduing animal attacks?

And what about the adrenaline that you would be feeling while fighting for your life? You'd probably be less concerned about the paint than the chimp would. Look at it this way, if that couple got attacked by one knife weilding person bent on killing them, I bet they'd be dead or much more seriously injured than they are now after being attacked by 2 chimps. And there's a big difference between being able to chomp down with your canines and slashing with a knife. Biting you need to get a good purchase on your victim. Slashing and stabbing causes serious damage at much lighter contact levels.

Thinking that the chimp wouldn't be affected by deep knife slashes and stabs just doesn't make sense to me. It's not like they're on PCP, no matter if they look like they're mad crazy. And they are pretty close to humans in physiology.

With all the observations that Jane Goodall has done, I don't recall reading where two male chimps go at it to death. The one on the losing end always runs off, and the other doesn't pursue beyond necessary to establish his dominance. And serioius injuries don't often occur between their fights either. One always backs off before it gets to that stage, because their survival instincts are stronger than their will to do injury to their foe. They will gang up on a chimp from another group and murder it, but that's because they have a huge advantage. We can't know what sort of fight that couple put up with or if they were so shocked they were just trying to shield themselves, as many attack victims would tend to do. Under those circumstances the chimps have all the aggressive advantage.

I'd pick a healthy man with a knife over a chimp any day.
 
I think I'd be pretty pissed off if I was dragged out of my native habitat and tossed in a cage to be ogled by tourists wearing Bermuda shorts. They are not pets or playthings but incredibly strong creatures who can take a full grown man apart without half trying. It's a lesson to respect nature and all of it's creatures.
 
If you were unlucky enough to be attacked and lucky enough to have a knife, multiple strikes would be the key. Cut anything that is in your range and keep cutting and try to keep moving. I would also think attacking the eyes would be helpful. I would also yell like a maniac and hope it scared Might Joe Young away. Maybe a Tarzan yell?
 
Grapevine,

I've seen people get rebar or screwdrivers (myself) through their hands, pull it out, wrap their hand in duct tape, and keep on working no problem. My uncle got a 3 inch piece of hardened steel through his foot when a hammer shattered and didn't even notice it until he felt his foot was wet. I once read it takes an average of 15-40 shots from a pistol to drop an average fighting person high on adrenaline. I really think you will be blind and have quite a few missing pieces of flesh and bone well before the chimp really notices enough to stop him, I mean sure you will probibly kill him if you can get your knife out but it won't be fast enough. He is either going to hit you from behind, go right for the face, or go right for the hands if you put them out to guard yourself. He is going to mess you up pretty good unless you have your knife drawn and are waiting for it to attack.

Someone mentioned attacking dogs, when you think about it the way the chimp will act would be pretty close to an attack dog with hands and the ability to climb. I've seen videos of police dogs taking down larger and stronger people then I and mess them up pretty good and they are trained just to hold the guy, imagine what they could do if they were allowed to do anything they wanted.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Unless your knife hits something vital, the chimp wouldn't even notice it until he was cooling off after he killed you. ...
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LOL!:D :D :D
GAWD, I love this place!
 
shpshooter, I'm curious which martial arts style our 'theoretical' chimps have for the sake of this discussion. Is it a soft art such as aikido, or maybe jui-jitsu? Or is more of a striking art...

Because the way your making it sound, these chimps are going to be make sure to only attack with the utmost skill to defend their throat and groin from stabs and slashes. They'd obviously recognize that the shiny thing in our hand was a knife, and in doing so, concentrate all their effort on dissarming the person first, correct?

:D
 
Don't forget what devastating fighters were the flying chimps on the Wizard of Oz.
 
as said here, chimps are very very strong, how many times stronger than an adult male human is debatable, but they are very powerfull animals, other than strength they have strong bones, powerful jaws with sharp teeth & are very aggressive & violent animals, when they attack, it's no play, the only way for a man to fight off a chimp is to club him down before he's on top of you, once he gets to you you have no chanse.
they target in their attacks the limbs, face & genitals mainly, a knife i think will be useless, a spear may work....
 
Okay, I'm not arguing here that an attacking chimp is going to do damage to you. But I think people are underestimating a human's ability with a weapon when that human has the right frame of mind. Chimps stand no chance against leopards in the wild. Gorillas are also preyed on by leopards (read up on their natural predators before you argue on this point). Now remember that story a while back about that middle aged hiker who killed a cougar with a slip joint? Granted cougars aren't leopards, but it shows what a slash to the throat can do.

Chimps aren't some magical unbeatable beasts. Nor are they devoid of all sense other than the primal sense to kill. The males behave very much like schoolyard bullies, with all human legal fears removed. They'll initiate an attack only if they think they have the advantage, and if they find no credible resistance to that attack they'll continue without any human altruistic restraint. At a point when there's enough resistance where they recognize that they can get seriously hurt, they back off or run away. That's what pretty much all animals do. A species ain't gonna survive long in the wild if it continues an attack to the point where it suffers seriously injury. An aggressive big dog can routinely chase off a black bear or a cougar though it wouldn't stand a chance if those wild animals actually decide to risk some injury in order to kill. But they don't. Animals prefer to run from a fight they can ultimately win over getting injured.

Sure an unarmed human is not much of a match. But a knife wielding one, with the frame of mind to do harm to the chimp, will at the very least get the chimp to stop the attack and back off, if not outright kill it. Yes the man would have injuries.

And adrenaline is a two way street. Those examples of people getting hurt while not feeling it can be applied to the human in the fight too. The important thing is purpose and frame of mind. If you're just shielding yourself and screaming for help, you're going to get hurt bad. If you're fighting back with that knife of yours, the chimp likely will back off.

I've seen the videos of attack dogs. I'd put my money on a trained attack dog over a chimp too. Attack dogs are trained with purpose on their minds. So they'll fight through pain more than their natural survival instinct would tell them to. I don't think angry chimps have such sense of purpose that overrides their natural self preservation instincts.
 
Grapevine said:
Okay, I'm not arguing here that an attacking chimp is going to do damage to you. But I think people are underestimating a human's ability with a weapon when that human has the right frame of mind. Chimps stand no chance against leopards in the wild. Gorillas are also preyed on by leopards (read up on their natural predators before you argue on this point). Now remember that story a while back about that middle aged hiker who killed a cougar with a slip joint? Granted cougars aren't leopards, but it shows what a slash to the throat can do.

Chimps aren't some magical unbeatable beasts. Nor are they devoid of all sense other than the primal sense to kill. The males behave very much like schoolyard bullies, with all human legal fears removed. They'll initiate an attack only if they think they have the advantage, and if they find no credible resistance to that attack they'll continue without any human altruistic restraint. At a point when there's enough resistance where they recognize that they can get seriously hurt, they back off or run away. That's what pretty much all animals do. A species ain't gonna survive long in the wild if it continues an attack to the point where it suffers seriously injury. An aggressive big dog can routinely chase off a black bear or a cougar though it wouldn't stand a chance if those wild animals actually decide to risk some injury in order to kill. But they don't. Animals prefer to run from a fight they can ultimately win over getting injured.

Sure an unarmed human is not much of a match. But a knife wielding one, with the frame of mind to do harm to the chimp, will at the very least get the chimp to stop the attack and back off, if not outright kill it. Yes the man would have injuries.

And adrenaline is a two way street. Those examples of people getting hurt while not feeling it can be applied to the human in the fight too. The important thing is purpose and frame of mind. If you're just shielding yourself and screaming for help, you're going to get hurt bad. If you're fighting back with that knife of yours, the chimp likely will back off.

I've seen the videos of attack dogs. I'd put my money on a trained attack dog over a chimp too. Attack dogs are trained with purpose on their minds. So they'll fight through pain more than their natural survival instinct would tell them to. I don't think angry chimps have such sense of purpose that overrides their natural self preservation instincts.
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Great post Grapevine..You brought up many good points that I did not think of in my first post. Being there in the middle of the fight would cause some serious differences. I have heard stories of mothers lifting cars off of there children after seeing them run over. The same concept could be applied here as well.
 
Garlic said:
for those who haven't heard:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/04/chimp.attack.ap/index.html

1st off, i had no freaking idea that chimps were physically capable of mutilating & killing a grown man (i guess it also depends on the man), but still. one chip bit the dude's foot off while the other one chewed half of his face off - & even took his eye completely out. i just saw the story on the news last night, i'm kinda slow with current events.

anyway, my questions are...

1) do you think a folder with a 4" blade (the usual large EDC length) would have made a significant difference? this is pure speculation, but i think that a chimp would rather back off from attacking than getting continually slashed & stuck. sure, he might get in a nice bite or two, but that's about as far as i think it could go. ps - take it as a given that a large fixed blade would definitely "fix" the situation, but i'm talking about the typical large EDC.

2) any true blade-related varmint attack stories you wanna share?

i was (& still am) pretty disturbed by this news. i'd like to hear your thoughts on this topic, by apologies if it's in the wrong forum.
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Chimpanzees can be very violent. If the man being attacked had defended himself with a knife, I fervently believe those chimps would have either disarmed him and threw the knife away, or disarmed him and used the knife as a club or for what it was intended for, to be used as a sharp instrument. There has been documented proof of groups of chimps going on raids on other groups and killing the entire group, using either their teeth and claws, or using sticks and rocks, mostly both. They're cute, but they're very deadly. I don't think a knife would be good enough against a pissed off chimpanzee.
 
silenthunterstudios said:
Chimpanzees can be very violent. If the man being attacked had defended himself with a knife, I fervently believe those chimps would have either disarmed him and threw the knife away, or disarmed him and used the knife as a club or for what it was intended for, to be used as a sharp instrument. There has been documented proof of groups of chimps going on raids on other groups and killing the entire group, using either their teeth and claws, or using sticks and rocks, mostly both. They're cute, but they're very deadly. I don't think a knife would be good enough against a pissed off chimpanzee.
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We go on raids and kill people to. ;)

Once again, the person in question was old and apparently not very aware. Even unarmed, a strong human can do a tremendous amount of damage. Its not like chimps have the natural weapon advantages of large cats.

Some people here seem to be talking about ninjas rather than chimps. Or maybe they think we are talking about velociraptors. I had some scary/painful experiences with monkeys, but back when I was a boy. A healthy, young adult is not likely to get killed by monkeys - chimps' instincts are set up to hunt other wild monkeys, not people.
 
According to the Lincoln Park Zoo website, Chimpanzees are considered part of the Ape family, not monkeys. Their wieght ranges from 125-175 pounds, with zoo weights being higher. They have opposable thumbs, enabling them to firmly grasp and hold objects, and a very high degree of intelligence, enabling them to solve a great many "problems," second only to human beings. I've also read before that Chimpanzees are closest to human beings in DNA composition, with a difference of only about 1 1/2 percentage points from us. It's important to keep in mind, I think, that you shouldn't have in mind one of those cute little adolescent TV Chimps when you think of Chimpanzee. These guys are really very powerfully built creatures. A lot of bone and muscle mass is concentrated in the upper body. When you see a full grown, young adult male, your first reaction is Whoa! That's a really powerful looking animal, not cute and cuddly at at all.

My point here is that with a significant amount of weight, strength, intelligence and the ability to grasp and hold objects (i.e.: your arms?) very firmly while they bite the crap out of your face (teeth are a weapon), and the propensity toward aggressive behavior, a man has one heck of an adversary in a single, let alone two, Chimpanzees.

As far as a human is concerned, I think a lot of the argument of human ability to ward off a Chimp attack is coming from the considerations of: A) Is the human alert, B) Is the human in good health and fit? C) Is the human armed? D) Is the human being motivated and/or trained to fight back? If you can answer yes to all or most of the above, perhaps you will win, but you'll still need to go to the hospital, Ill bet. Just my opinion.
 
silenthunterstudios said:
Well, I guess we'll have to start worrying when we see the chimp in his forge working on his new knife! :D
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Only in the movies, at least for the next half million years, I guess. :D
 
It sounds like some would advocate having knives drawn at at the ready for any act of aggression. :eek:

Drawing a concealed knife while the attack was underway may not have been an option. Reaction time on your part when under a sneak attack may not be enough to keep you out of trouble.

Due to the fact it was in California may limited one's ability to carry a large knife while visiting what was essentially a petting zoo.

I have learned a lesson though.....If I ever go to one of those places, I'll take enough cake for the rest of the inmates. :)


Thomas Zinn
 
I doubt a chimp would recognize a knife as a weapon, unless it has been cut before. I've seen enough animals fight through gunshot wounds, car strikes and other trauma that in my opinion thinking that a chimp could be stopped by a person with a knife is optimistic at best, and would still end up in horrible injuries to the person.

Talk to some of the people who deal with primates in research facilities. They all have horror stories of bites and attacks. You dont mess with the monks, and a chimp is bigger, stronger and smarter
 
A Dogs Best Friend said:
Only in the movies, at least for the next half million years, I guess. :D
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Take your dirty hand off of me, you damn dirty human! (remake of Planet of the Apes)
 
I am sure that chimps are very strong for their size and quite smart for an animal, but I do think a knife could have helped. I don't see a chip being too eager to bite your fingers off if those fingers are wrapped firmly around a knife....

As someone else posted, one good swipe across a belly or face could have slowed the attack enough to at least give the guy a chance.

Terrible, terrible, terrible...
 
Oh crap, what do we do when the chimps, after breaking a rock over someones head, realize that that large flake that they broke off of the rock is actually sharp? Chimps have precision grips, all animals are a lot smarter than we think, and I really don't think that a knife could really stop a crazed chimp, those teeth would probably be the last thing your arm sees!
 
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