A folder's potential role in subduing animal attacks?

zinn1348 said:
Due to the fact it was in California may limited one's ability to carry a large knife while visiting what was essentially a petting zoo.
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Generally, Calif. knife law isn't too bad. No length limits and OK to carry folders concealed as long as it's closed. No switchblades, balis, dirk/daggers, cane swords allowed. Fixed blades are OK as long as they're carried openly in a sheath. Some local laws may be more restrictive.

I haven't seen any state laws regarding petting zoos, but you never know. The zoo could have their own rules. There are additional limits to what you can carry on school grounds.
 
I've been thinking of these kinds of attacks for a while and wondering what I could do in such an encounter to parry a few thousand years of animal behavior refinement. My musings have mainly been about dog encounters, figuring that I'm about as likely to have a confrontation with them as with humans.

I read both of the cited accounts of the chimpanzee attacks and it is my opinion that I would have been toast against the two of them, even if I was armed with a knife. Against one, I would have done a little better, but I think this fighter (age 64) would have expired. Unlike a dog, a chimp can jump on you and hold on while it bites. And it seems that animals attack with 100% ferocity, while we are more measured.

I think I would have felt a little better with a large Griptilian clipped to each front pocket. Click click and I'm ready---if I even see the attack coming. But I would still feel very poorly armed, and probably wind up at death's door.

Perhaps some day later we can discuss what to do in dog attacks. In the meantime, my heart goes out to this poor man and his wife.

U
 
The Sjambok - related post was worth the few minutes I spent googling around to find out what it was. I think I'll get one of those for my walks with my dog down our somewhat rural street (looks like it would work a lot better than a tree limb I typically grab)...

Question - sorry if this hijacks the thread a bit, but - are there legal issues with carrying a sjambok while, uh, walking down the street? Not waving it wildly, etc. - just carrying it at your side, while you walk your dog - a middle-aged dude like myself.... ??
 
edb, check out this thread in Practical Tactical: Dog defense.

Cold Steel has a nice-looking new model sjambok that might be easier to get away with, although that depends on local law, but generally speaking, for dogs or chimps, I'd rather have a solid cane or walking stick , and these are legal anywhere.
 
When I read these sorts of threads, I always end up wondering what everybody looks like. Unlike with a gun, fighting with a knife would be very physical. Your strength, speed, and reflexes would be very important. If you're some skinny or doughy, love-handled guy who's never stepped foot into a gym, you're not going to be much with a knife. I'm also a college kid, part time work as a personal trainer, and competitive powerlifter. I've worked with enough people to see that the average, healthy man is very weak, regardless of size. Even most military are very weak. They usually have high levels of cardiopulmonary abilities though. But it's honestly embarrassing to watch average, or untrained men trying to lift heavy. You see average build, 6'6, 300 lb men barely pushing out 200 lbs on a lift, while a 5'5, 170 lb guy next to him pushes out 400lbs on the same lift. Physical conditioning has a lot to do with it. Everyone sounds like a mall ninja when talking about knife fights.

Chimps are wild animals, and obviously in very good physical condition. Wild animals have thick skin. If something is leagues faster, stronger, and better trained than you, and also gets the first jump, you're not going to have a chance. It would be easy for it to overpower you and prevent you from swinging your arm to use the knife. It would be like Mike Tyson versus a 6 year old girl with a small, sharp piece of metal. Even I would not be worried about an average, healthy man with a knife. Just pick up a stick or anything off the ground.

I would put money on the chimp everytime.
 
Hold on, don't start without me! Gotta drag my couch up to the PC, pull up my cooler full of beer, and get my salty, fat laden snacks.


Thomas Zinn :eek:
 
Exactly, I'm 6' 2" 270lbs and working in commercial construction and demo i'm not exactly a weak guy (though i'm not a powerlifter either). But, If I was in a cage match with a wild full grown chimp (or two even) that wern't exactly my greatest fans my money is going on the chimp, even if I have a BM 710 on me. If I did survive i'm sure I would spend the next few weeks in the hospital. Now, if I had my BM 710 and my calvary saber I might fare a bit better. ;)
 
WHY DO YOU GUYS THINK A KNIFE IS GOING TO STOP ONE? Once you get your cut or stab wound in, they are going to go even more berserk and rip your head off, literally. Granted, everyone can't carry a gun, but a knife against two full grown chimpanzees? I don't care if you had a bowie, you'd still be screwed. Now a battle sword, I don't know... :D

...crappin all over the place, eatin' all my goddamn Oreos...
 
one thing people don't seem to know is that knife fights are not as shown in movies, a human in the heat of an attack will not be stopped by a knife, you can slash & stab dozens of times & untill the attack is over (if the person is truly enraged & attacks in a state of madness). when chimps attack they are in the same state of mind, it is not an attack to get food, it is an attack to kill & the chimp is likely to not be affected by the injuries until the end of the fight.

i have seen knife fights for real, i speak from experiense.
 
Alright people! I agree that a chimp could do some serious damage to a person - even a fairly tough, fit man armed with a knife. But I really do think a chimp (or two) would also be dead or seriously wounded after such an encounter. Anything that can't take my hand off CLEANLY with one bite is going to get some serious slashing / stabbing wounds before it gets to bite those fingers off! Of course my other arm, ears, legs, back, may be completely mauled, but I would be willing to offer the non-knife arm to get a swing with the blade.

Such an attack would have taken more than just a few seconds and the longer it takes the more damage an armed man can inflict. Obviously this poor man suffered a great amount of damage, but being unarmed the point at which he can do anything to stop or even slow the attack goes by very quickly.

I however have not seen knife fights in person, so I can't speak from experiense...or EXPERIENCE...
 
I've never faced a chimp attack. Doesn't sound like I really want to.

But, I have written my thoughts on the subject of smaller knives vs. animals on the coon hunting page. I've seen a few things on this thread that I'd have to disagree with. If anyone cares to read my ramblings, here's a link. But PLEASE, do NOT go there if you may be offended by this stuff. I try to be detailed and frank in my descriptions.
 
Would I want to fight a chimp with a folder? No.

Would I take it over nothing? Yes.

We have read about those who fought off both bears and mountain lions with folders so I guess one could get lucky against a chimp too.
 
Anybody want to partake in an "ultimate fighting challenge" with two pissed off chimps? Choose your knife and have a go. I'll put my money on the chimps. But really what are the odds of any of us tangling with a chimp, let alone two. Some people want to humanize animals, we spoil our dogs till they forget how to act. Having a birthday party for a pet chimp? Really!! Get real these are wild animals, they're unpreditable. Remember Roy and zigfre(Spelling?) he was almost torn to shreads. Bears riding bikes? Give me a freakin break. So when something like this happens we're all stunned as to what happened. SORRY for the rant but in my area we have a better chance of a mtn. lion encounter. Not long ago a mtn. biker was killed by a mtn. lion.
It didn't matter if he had a knife on him or a gun, he was hit from behind in typical mtn. lion fashion. Never saw it coming. So when i'm in lion country I always carry a means to defend myself. Sure I will try to be ready for "if and when". It would be the smart thing to do even though the odds say I would be most likely injured or killed by a car..In any case it is always better to go out fighting..
;)
 
Eric_425 said:
When I read these sorts of threads, I always end up wondering what everybody looks like. Unlike with a gun, fighting with a knife would be very physical. Your strength, speed, and reflexes would be very important. If you're some skinny or doughy, love-handled guy who's never stepped foot into a gym, you're not going to be much with a knife. I'm also a college kid, part time work as a personal trainer, and competitive powerlifter. I've worked with enough people to see that the average, healthy man is very weak, regardless of size. Even most military are very weak. They usually have high levels of cardiopulmonary abilities though. But it's honestly embarrassing to watch average, or untrained men trying to lift heavy. You see average build, 6'6, 300 lb men barely pushing out 200 lbs on a lift, while a 5'5, 170 lb guy next to him pushes out 400lbs on the same lift. Physical conditioning has a lot to do with it. Everyone sounds like a mall ninja when talking about knife fights.

Chimps are wild animals, and obviously in very good physical condition. Wild animals have thick skin. If something is leagues faster, stronger, and better trained than you, and also gets the first jump, you're not going to have a chance. It would be easy for it to overpower you and prevent you from swinging your arm to use the knife. It would be like Mike Tyson versus a 6 year old girl with a small, sharp piece of metal. Even I would not be worried about an average, healthy man with a knife. Just pick up a stick or anything off the ground.

I would put money on the chimp everytime.
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Military should have a good deal of muscle, IMHO. The physical standard here at West Point seem to be highers than those in the army in general - my company's average APFT score was 295. Powerlifting those has less to do with usable strength than with conditioning the muscle to push a fixed load in a certain direction once - not a bad thing, but not as useful as a measure of combat strength. That being said, I bench every other day, in addition to the every present pushups. It can't hurt, right?

Chimpanzees don't know kung fu, and they do not practice disarming knives from people. On the ground, monkeys are not as blindingly fast as people seem to think.
silenthunterstudios said:
WHY DO YOU GUYS THINK A KNIFE IS GOING TO STOP ONE?
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Why not? You aren't "hurting" the monkey. If the monkey's grabbed you you're probably just going to jam the knife in it and tear into the monkey's guts.

In terms of discouragement, a longer weapon like a stick would seem to be better for discouraging the monkey before it becomes commited to the attack. But why are you so worried about monkeys anyways? For a monkey to determinely attack a human with the intent to maul or kill is definately the exception rather than the rule.

At the risk of sounding callous, a couple of unarmed punks could have mauled some old guy just as easily as the monkeys. Because it was monkeys, and thus uncommon, the story is newsworthy.
 
As a young pup I was big Edgar Rice Burroughs fan. I remember Tarzan whipping up on the apes all time. No big deal.

(Terrible for the couple, I just can't imagine what it was like for them experience such a thing)
 
You need a fixed blade, not a folder!
tarzan.gif
 
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