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A good self defence round against bear?

Masteroffajitas said:
10mm? I've never heard of it. What does that feel like? .45? I shoot a .44 comfortably, but I'm curious, you say it's a good bear round, does anyone know a cheaper 10mm gun? Possibly in revolver form?
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Its a long .40cal

All this talk about bear defence and no one said the S&W.500

This is what I would want. The magna ported one :D
http://www.lesjones.com/posts/003445.shtml
 
I just saw a grizzly in Yellowstone two days ago. He had come up behind a couple of other hikers just before I met up with them. He was on them and scooted right past before they knew he was there. They barely had time to pee their pants. As I was talking to them on the side of the hill where he came down, looking at his big tracks in the dirt, he broke cover below us, maybe 100 yards away. Didn't really make any noise. I didn't have time to get a decent camera shot, let alone enough time to take an aimed pistol shot (if I had had a pistol with me).

Bear spray is probably a better bet.

I was hunting last year in some dense timber in bear country. I had a .300 WinMag with me. I was crawling though the brush when I smelled bear. I can't really say how I knew it was bear, but it was definitely bear. My mind screamed, "bear". The little hairs on my neck stood up. Maybe it was just my mind playing tricks on me, but I had that sixth sense that a bear was near, really near. Despite the .300 WinMag in my hands, I felt very vulnerable. I didn't know where 'he' was, but I bet 'he' knew where I was. And in the dense brush, it would have been tough to get anything but a hip shot off.

My point is that a firearm will only get you so far and is a pain to carry around. Bear spray is likely more reliable, easier to carry, and easier to use.
 
I dunno. You take the spray and I'll take what I always have in my front pocket.
A Charter Bulldog in 44 speacial loaded with Silvertips.
 
A big part of it is in your head. I once held off a sow Griz with 2 cubs off with my Wright McGill Sweetheart (1940 vintage) fly rod. We stood face to face, not 20 feet away, her cubs behind her. Neither of us wanted to fight ( I believe this) I stood for a few seconds, seemed like hours, then slowly backed away, pointing that fly rod at her hoping she would not swat it. got back and around a corner, heard a loud WOOF, a few minutes later she and her cubs were gone.

I like bears and would hate to have to kill one and never have. But when the potential for confrontation is possible it is my S&W Mtn. gun 44 mag. Easily carried in a Bianchi shoulder holster I depend on but did not have it with me that day, just because there were no bears in that area.

Prevention of confrontations is a much better way to go.
I was fishing for brook trout walking silently - my error - walked round a bend and there she was. A small bell on my dog or me would have prevented the confrontation. Also my dog Blue was well trained, I told her "Out" and she was out of sight. Since then fishing that stream, my labrador wears a bell and I sing and whistle a lot. A bell on your dog will also prevent her from spooking horses coming in behind them.

I once thought about roping one (young cub) but had a pack string of horses loaded and figured it could very easily have been one huge wreck.

The horror stories abound but you can have good times with them.
 
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For black bear, I'd be comfortable with a hot loaded .45LC, .44 mag, .41 mag, .357 mag, 10mm, or maybe down to a .40 S&W. Any of those will work if your shot placement is good, and as other have said, use premium cast hunting bullets - no hollowpoints.

I like to carry my Casull, but it's in a whole 'nuther league. You get used to the recoil - .44 mag doesn't seem bad at all after a few Casull rounds. The part I wouldn't like is the lack of hearing protection. I would hate to think what a few of those rounds do to unprotected ears, and the damage is permanent. I already have tinnitus, and it's no fun.
 
You got that right. OUCH.

I used to have a 416 Rem Mag. When I thought my other rifles had a lot of recoil, I would take that 416 out and run a few good hot 400 grain bullets through. That would tame down the other rifles quick. My shoulder won't take that anymore, This year I will use my wife's 250 Savage for deer hunting.:thumbup:
 
I would choose a 12ga. Mostly due to cost. If you aren't gonna hunt with it, no point in getting a rifle that you're only gonna hump around and only shoot 5 yards out. Make sure you use hard lead slugs as well if you choose a shotgun.

Otherwise, 45/70 in a Marlin 1985 GS looks good to me.
 
k_estela said:
12 gauge brenneke rottweiler slugs. .
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Agreed, When I hike or on mountain ops I usually use a cheap 12 gauge maverick 500 short barrel with pistol grip.

Loaded with buck and ball first 2 rounds then slugs.

When in panic mode you want the surest way to reach out and touch something fury.

Skam
 
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Which handgun are you going to buy and practice with -- lots -- so you are able to achieve good shot placement in a sudden, unexpected crisis? (Mr. or Mrs. bear can cover 100 yds. in Olympic-class speed.) Anything else just contributes to unjustified confidence.



"Calebklyne: 'bearspray your hand gun will likely just piss it off.'

This is, on the face of it- untrue. People hunt bear with handguns."

Comment: Indigs hunt Polar Bear and Brown Bear with .22 rifles. Again, practice and placement.


.44 mags come in autos too. Less felt recoil. Feels like a .45 1911 to some. But heavy things to carry around.
 
skammer,

If you want a really heavy "buckshot" load, check out the Tri-Ball from www.dixieslugs.com. I think you will be impressed with the energy and penetration.

DancesWithKnives
 
Rotte said:
I just saw a grizzly in Yellowstone two days ago. He had come up behind a couple of other hikers just before I met up with them. He was on them and scooted right past before they knew he was there. They barely had time to pee their pants. As I was talking to them on the side of the hill where he came down, looking at his big tracks in the dirt, he broke cover below us, maybe 100 yards away. Didn't really make any noise. I didn't have time to get a decent camera shot, let alone enough time to take an aimed pistol shot (if I had had a pistol with me).

Bear spray is probably a better bet.

I was hunting last year in some dense timber in bear country. I had a .300 WinMag with me. I was crawling though the brush when I smelled bear. I can't really say how I knew it was bear, but it was definitely bear. My mind screamed, "bear". The little hairs on my neck stood up. Maybe it was just my mind playing tricks on me, but I had that sixth sense that a bear was near, really near. Despite the .300 WinMag in my hands, I felt very vulnerable. I didn't know where 'he' was, but I bet 'he' knew where I was. And in the dense brush, it would have been tough to get anything but a hip shot off.

My point is that a firearm will only get you so far and is a pain to carry around. Bear spray is likely more reliable, easier to carry, and easier to use.
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This.

Toucan Oasis said:
I dunno. You take the spray and I'll take what I always have in my front pocket.
A Charter Bulldog in 44 speacial loaded with Silvertips.
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Never dealt with pissed off Costa Rican game, but hollowpoints have a tendency to flatten when they hit the musculature/bone structure of a 400+ (in some cases ++) pound bear.

All apologies to Rotte if I have misconstrued the point.
 
Game I don't know about.
I can tell you a 44 special silvertip will drop a 1000 lb Jersey bull or a 300 lb hog with one hit to the head.
The only bear I ever killed, or even saw in the wild, was with a 44 mag at about 30 feet.She'd been hit by a car. That was with a fairly light load of 16 grains of 2400 and a 200 grain hollow point. That was my standard carry load in 44 mag.
 
Calebklyne said:
bearspray your hand gun will likely just piss it off
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Reminds me of that slightly off-color old joke about the hunter and the Alaskan guide.
The guide tells the hunter he better file down his front sight of his 44 magnum revolver in case he meets up with a bear. The hunters says "why will it make it more accurate?" Guide says "no but it will hurt less when the bear takes it from you and shoves it up your *ss"...lol!

Thats not a personal slight on the 44 magnum i just though it was relevant to the topic at hand, lol.
Jokes aside i've heard a lot of good things about the Glock 10mm.
My personal target shooting experience with the Glock is mostly with the 9mm Glock 17.

The Freedom Arms .454 Casuul SA would be nice but its kinda pricey.
It still amazes me that Ruger hasn't yet put out a Blackhawk in .454!
Whats up with that? You think they would sell like hotcakes!

There is a Taurus double action .454 Casuul out that looks interesting.

Must be nice to be able to carry a handgun in the woods, as far as i know where i live only LEO and wildlife officers can carry in the woods (or in town for that matter). All the rest of us need permits just to transport handguns between home and the range.

Around here the 12 Ga pump using slugs is king for this scenario.
But i think a Marlin lever-gun in 45-70 or a Rossi/Puma lever-gun in .454 would also be sweet!
 
Lots of farmers around here kill their mature cattle and hogs with a .22 to the head when they butcher, that doesn't make it good for bear defense. I think a lot of the experts agree with Rotte, bear pepper spray might work better than a gun. I would probably have a heavy caliber handgun with hard cast flatnose bullets in it for backup though too.
 
Hey Guys, thought I'de weigh in.
I am a handgun hunter. I've been doing it for about ten years and have hunted both white tails and black bear with handguns from .357 to .454 Casul. I used to think that a .41 or .44 was a starting point for black bear but for the past few years I have only used my .357mag. The barrel length is the MAIN factor in penetration. My hunting revolvers are all 6-8 inch barrels except my .454 which has a 10 in barrel. I use VERY hot handloads with my .357 and find that 190 grain Hunter's Supply Hard Cast bullets work best.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=2046141371
I have not yet had the need to take a second shot on a bear and the penetration and shock transfer from these bullets is superb. I have a Thonpson Center Encore pistol with a 10 in barrel in .357 but its a single shot, suitable for deer and gives me a little more range but there's no real difference in knock down between the 6in revolver. I know that there's a group consensus that black bear are hard to kill and that you need to be gunned to the teeth but it's just not so. I have used my .454 on a Bison hunt and killed a 954lb bull two years ago. There's no need for that kind of fire power to kill a +/-300 lb black bear at close range.
I am a biologist and have worked in areas with heavy bear/human conflict and have never needed more than bear spray. For all the people that think the spray is not effective, I'm sorry but some of you guys just don't understand the differences in bears physiology. A blast of bear spray will not only stop a bear but sometimes they will even be so incapacitated they cannot even stand for several minutes. I'm sorry to go against the grain here but as a handgun hunter I have direct experience with this topic.
 
Especially in the case of the original poster, dealing with midwestern black bears, bear spray would be my choice. Bear poop around a camp site isn't the kind of thing that seems to call for heavy firepower. I see the place for a defensive firearm in some grizzly territory at some times of the year, but even there the documented record suggests that spray is statistically more effective.
 
Md 25v said:
Hey Guys, thought I'de weigh in.
I am a handgun hunter. I've been doing it for about ten years and have hunted both white tails and black bear with handguns from .357 to .454 Casul. I used to think that a .41 or .44 was a starting point for black bear but for the past few years I have only used my .357mag. The barrel length is the MAIN factor in penetration. My hunting revolvers are all 6-8 inch barrels except my .454 which has a 10 in barrel. I use VERY hot handloads with my .357 and find that 190 grain Hunter's Supply Hard Cast bullets work best.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=2046141371
I have not yet had the need to take a second shot on a bear and the penetration and shock transfer from these bullets is superb. I have a Thonpson Center Encore pistol with a 10 in barrel in .357 but its a single shot, suitable for deer and gives me a little more range but there's no real difference in knock down between the 6in revolver. I know that there's a group consensus that black bear are hard to kill and that you need to be gunned to the teeth but it's just not so. I have used my .454 on a Bison hunt and killed a 954lb bull two years ago. There's no need for that kind of fire power to kill a +/-300 lb black bear at close range.
I am a biologist and have worked in areas with heavy bear/human conflict and have never needed more than bear spray. For all the people that think the spray is not effective, I'm sorry but some of you guys just don't understand the differences in bears physiology. A blast of bear spray will not only stop a bear but sometimes they will even be so incapacitated they cannot even stand for several minutes. I'm sorry to go against the grain here but as a handgun hunter I have direct experience with this topic.
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Excellent-

I haven't said anything for or against bear spray- the question was specific to handguns. I'd feel pretty foolish not having bear spray in a "high probability" environment.

Thanks for someone else posting on barrel lengths. I tend to prefer smaller calibers with longer barrels for trail handguns and I don't think people emphasize enough the extreme differences between short and long barrels. I'd far rather carry a .38 special with an 8 inch bbl over a 2-3 inch .357 even. (and when you get to carbines, it's another world of difference- a .357 out of 18 inches is going to cook)

This is where I start not liking autopistols as trail guns in general- it's hard to get a good barrel length.
 
koyote said:
I haven't said anything for or against bear spray- the question was specific to handguns.
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That's true, but the opening line was "I just recently watched The Edge." That, to me, signals that this isn't about the reality of a possible encounter, but imaginary bears. When you get beyond the fantasy and consider the actual possible threat (Minnesota black bears that haven't been seen but which have pooped somewhere near a campsite), bear spray is the rational answer.

Personally, if I was anywhere where I felt the real risks justified a firearm, a 12 ga. with slugs is where I'd want to be. If it's necessary, that's the weapon to have -- and if it's really not necessary, anything smaller is just a pain to carry.
 
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