A good self defence round against bear?

[skammer]

I am a biologist and have worked in areas with heavy bear/human conflict and have never needed more than bear spray. For all the people that think the spray is not effective, I'm sorry but some of you guys just don't understand the differences in bears physiology. A blast of bear spray will not only stop a bear but sometimes they will even be so incapacitated they cannot even stand for several minutes.

This may or may not be true I would have to see documented accounts.

One thing that is for sure. Firearms are not affected by a relatively light wind when that griz is coming at you.

Skam

 

[Md 25v]

This may or may not be true I would have to see documented accounts.

One thing that is for sure. Firearms are not affected by a relatively light wind when that griz is coming at you.

Skam

This is not about "A Charging Grizzly" this is about black bears. Theres a world of difference!

 

[Fonly]

This may or may not be true I would have to see documented accounts.

One thing that is for sure. Firearms are not affected by a relatively light wind when that griz is coming at you.

Skam

Your right, there is a very fine line, One thing I will tell you, I was caught in the cross wind of bear spray, and just that had be in BAD shape.

I have seen it used, and I am confident in it, as long as its powerful. Its only like 10 seconds or something in a can of spray, if one is following you, just some spays on the ground behind you can take them off you A$$, but don't count on it.

Remember, spray is almost usless in a predatorial attack as well, if they want to eat you, you better have a 3" slug waiting for them.


Also, if you can get spray with a 2 percent caspian(SP?) count, do it.

 

[skammer]

This is not about "A Charging Grizzly" this is about black bears. Theres a world of difference!

Were I live black bears can be more agressive than Griz most times. If they dont run scared they get very mean very fast. Cubs around forget about it.

Its just that my spidie sense tingles when putting all my eggs in the spray basket. Thus I do carry a 12 ga when in high probability areas.

Skam

 

[Fonly]

Its just that my spidie sense tingles when putting all my eggs in the spray basket. Thus I do carry a 12 ga when in high probability areas.Skam

Heh, not a bad plan.

Thats that other side, people assume black bears are the lesser of two evil's, but you should watch the both closely.

 

[STAGE 2]

I am a biologist and have worked in areas with heavy bear/human conflict and have never needed more than bear spray.

I've never needed to use my jumper cables but I have them any way. Same for car insurance and my CCW and all sorts of other things are for the "just in case" scenarios.

For all the people that think the spray is not effective, I'm sorry but some of you guys just don't understand the differences in bears physiology. A blast of bear spray will not only stop a bear but sometimes they will even be so incapacitated they cannot even stand for several minutes. I'm sorry to go against the grain here but as a handgun hunter I have direct experience with this topic.

I dont think anyone is arguing that bear spray won't do anything. If you have a disinterested bear that is only looking to poke around then it will probably encourage them to look elsewhere. However its the big snarling pissed off, hungry beast of an animal that most of us are worried about.

I know what the human body is capable of, and I know that animals, bears especially, make us look pathetic on the physical side of things, so I'm not convinced that some goop in a can is going to save my hide when mother nature's furry spawn is charging.

Now if you can guarantee me that every bear that I will ever run into will be nice and polite, then I'd give bear spray a chance. If you could guarantee me that it wouldn't be a windy day, that I would have enough composure to sit still, wait for the bear to be in range, hit it in the face while its doing upwards of 30 miles and hour, and that in the 10 or so yards that I have before I'm an appetizer it works its magic and totally incapacitates the bear, then I'm sold.

Now let me introduce to you a good friend of mine. His name is Murphy...

 

[Md 25v]

I've never needed to use my jumper cables but I have them any way. Same for car insurance and my CCW and all sorts of other things are for the "just in case" scenarios.




I dont think anyone is arguing that bear spray won't do anything. If you have a disinterested bear that is only looking to poke around then it will probably encourage them to look elsewhere. However its the big snarling pissed off, hungry beast of an animal that most of us are worried about.

I know what the human body is capable of, and I know that animals, bears especially, make us look pathetic on the physical side of things, so I'm not convinced that some goop in a can is going to save my hide when mother nature's furry spawn is charging.

Now if you can guarantee me that every bear that I will ever run into will be nice and polite, then I'd give bear spray a chance. If you could guarantee me that it wouldn't be a windy day, that I would have enough composure to sit still, wait for the bear to be in range, hit it in the face while its doing upwards of 30 miles and hour, and that in the 10 or so yards that I have before I'm an appetizer it works its magic and totally incapacitates the bear, then I'm sold.

Now let me introduce to you a good friend of mine. His name is Murphy...

Look, I'm not trying to rile anyone up but I always see posts from internet experts that say one thing or another and usually they are pretty far off. If you want the science of why bear spray is so effective I'll try to break it down.
The bears nose makes a bloodhounds seem like a humans. Olfactory nerves actually connect DIRECTLY to the brain in all mamals making it one of the easiest ways to completely incapacitate an animal that has a more sensitive sense of smell, like a bear. When they get hit with it the overload of electro-receptors is more than the brain can process and the animal is INSTANTLY and IMMEDIATELY incapacitated and sometimes even unable to stand for a few minutes if it gets a particularly heavy dose.
This cannot happen to you or me. Our sense of smell is just not sensitive enough for this type of reaction. There are pepper sprays that can cause burning and trouble breathing, even temporary blindness in us but there's no pepper spray out there that can directly attack our brain.
Here's the best way for me to explain this- call your local DNR, ask to speak to their wildlife and heritage program coordinator. They will be able to direct you to the field biologists that work directly with black bears. Ask them what they think of spray and if they have had to use it what the bears reaction was.

 

[STAGE 2]

Look, I'm not trying to rile anyone up but I always see posts from internet experts that say one thing or another and usually they are pretty far off. If you want the science of why bear spray is so effective I'll try to break it down.
The bears nose makes a bloodhounds seem like a humans. Olfactory nerves actually connect DIRECTLY to the brain in all mamals making it one of the easiest ways to completely incapacitate an animal that has a more sensitive sense of smell, like a bear. When they get hit with it the overload of electro-receptors is more than the brain can process and the animal is INSTANTLY and IMMEDIATELY incapacitated and sometimes even unable to stand for a few minutes if it gets a particularly heavy dose.
This cannot happen to you or me. Our sense of smell is just not sensitive enough for this type of reaction. There are pepper sprays that can cause burning and trouble breathing, even temporary blindness in us but there's no pepper spray out there that can directly attack our brain.
Here's the best way for me to explain this- call your local DNR, ask to speak to their wildlife and heritage program coordinator. They will be able to direct you to the field biologists that work directly with black bears. Ask them what they think of spray and if they have had to use it what the bears reaction was.

Again, I'm not doubting you that bear spray can work. I'm just saying that 1) its a defensive option limited by distance, 2) it will only work if you hit one (relatively) small particular area, 3) it can be affected by the environment (wind, movement of the bear etc) 4) it can incapacitate the user, and 5)its not definitively proven that its going to stop a pissed off charging bear.

A simple google search will show all sorts of instances where bear spray not only didn't incapacitate the bear, but didn't send it running from the area.

My 45-70 isn't going to be affect by wind or rain or brush. The distance at which I can engage the threat is measured in hundreds of yards and not several feet. There are areas that I can hit which will effectively guarantee me a one shot stop. And even if I dont hit any of these areas, my round has enough energy to hit other vital organs and incapacitate the bear.

 

[Dannyboy Leather]

Post expired.

 

[koyote]

such good points.

I hate to be pedantic, but the overall trend of the suggestions isn't to take away your .454 casull or your 12ga, but to suggest - read carefully- another option.

I've done a bit of handgun hunting, I've talked to a lot of handgun hunters while making my own decisions on what I want in a survival pistol- and I have no issue with someone who is practiced carrying a handgun for bear defense. Going out and shooting, learning the weapon, and drilling - that's all much more important thant he difference between a .357 and a .454

 

[Dannyboy Leather]

Post expired.

 

[K Williams]

Since your wording was defense, rather than hunting, I'd go with a Marlin 45/70.
You can hunt bear with it but at a limited range as opposed to a 338 mag etc.

OOOPS. Handguns only.
44 mag. will do just fine.
357 I really wouldn't recommend.You need bullet weight to hammer that thick skull.

The Marlin 45/70 Guide Gun(model # 1895G & 1895GS) would be a nice choice.

 

[Samael]

My "bear gun" is a .44 Mag with my handloaded 600-grain hard-cast bullets. Nope, I've never had to use it on anything, but I sure feel a lot better knowing it's there. It's pretty much a religious experience to shoot, but one of those rounds has gone through 24" of hardwood (and came out the other side), so I'm guessing a blackie would probably notice two or three rounds of that.

 

[charadeur]

A Wild West Co-Pilot Rifle in 50 caliber Alaskan is the bear defense round I am lusting after. But use some common sense and you will be fine in bear country.

 

[Ed Fowler]

Stage 2 - I know there are a loot of bear sprays on the market, which one do you find the most effective?

 

[DWK2]

That Co-Pilot take-down rifle drives me crazy. I've fondled it in their shop in Anchorage and at SHOT. What a deluxe little package!

DancesWithKnives

 

[STAGE 2]

Stage 2 - I know there are a loot of bear sprays on the market, which one do you find the most effective?

The one that comes with hardcast 45-70.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Commentary on relative efectiveness of different sprays and study showing experience of substantially greater relative effectiveness of sprays vs. firearms. Note findings that spray residue may attract some bears.
http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm

Study showing experience of substantially greater relative effectiveness of sprays vs. firearms
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/03/26/bearspray.htm

"Capsaicin has the same effect on bears that it does on humans."
Study showing experience substantially greater relative effectiveness of spray vs. firearms.
http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/bear-spray2.htm

Seems to have been lost in this interesting thread, but the OP didn't ask about long arms since he can't carry one in the relevant area.

That being said, M2 anyone? Tracer to be sure.

 

[dectia]

Game I don't know about.
I can tell you a 44 special silvertip will drop a 1000 lb Jersey bull or a 300 lb hog with one hit to the head.

How close did you get to the bull or the hog before you pulled the trigger?

Look, I'm not trying to rile anyone up but I always see posts from internet experts that say one thing or another and usually they are pretty far off. If you want the science of why bear spray is so effective I'll try to break it down.
The bears nose makes a bloodhounds seem like a humans. Olfactory nerves actually connect DIRECTLY to the brain in all mamals making it one of the easiest ways to completely incapacitate an animal that has a more sensitive sense of smell, like a bear. When they get hit with it the overload of electro-receptors is more than the brain can process and the animal is INSTANTLY and IMMEDIATELY incapacitated and sometimes even unable to stand for a few minutes if it gets a particularly heavy dose.
This cannot happen to you or me. Our sense of smell is just not sensitive enough for this type of reaction. There are pepper sprays that can cause burning and trouble breathing, even temporary blindness in us but there's no pepper spray out there that can directly attack our brain.
Here's the best way for me to explain this- call your local DNR, ask to speak to their wildlife and heritage program coordinator. They will be able to direct you to the field biologists that work directly with black bears. Ask them what they think of spray and if they have had to use it what the bears reaction was.

Yeah. What he said.

 

[Idaho Jarhead]

I carry a .454 Casull for self defense against the big critters. I hunt with 260 gr, but carry the larger 300 gr for bear protection. I have added a 2x Leupold since this photo was taken.

I realize the OP stated he can't carry a long gun where he's going, but since everyone else is mentioning them I'll just throw out my vote for the .45-70. I don't own one YET, but that is the next rifle on my list.