a heavy tool for survivng th first 24

RescueRiley

RescueRiley

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Mar 22, 2006
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Last week went on a 24 hr. survival trip with Tonym. We where only allowed to bring 1knife each and whatever gear we could fit in an altoids tin..
I learned allot from this trip, one of the things was related to tasks that must be accomplished in the first 24 hours should you find yourself lost in the bush, and make the decision to stay put..I think unarguably the first 2 priorities are shelter and fire. which is the way we tackled it...For the area we where in I was surprised by how much I longed for a large working knife, axe or similar tool.. THere was allot of chopping and splitting (it had rained hard the day before) that needed to be done...I read somewhere that the 2 things most indigenous people living abo lifestyles are almost never without are a metal pot and a large working knife (or axe)
after this experience I can understand why..
Presumably I could do most of what I accomplished with a small 4 inch belt knife but I would have had to change my tactics (it will be interesting to try)
But there is something to be said for the value of a thick chopping/splitting tool for these heavy tasks.
presumably once shelter and fire are constructed. they can be maintained with less work, and the longer you stay the more detailed your tasks become (traps, game cleaning, camp craft)
It seems in traditional bush craft the emphasis seems to be on a detail knife ( which I am a big fan of) but in the short term survival scenario the specificity of the 4 inch belt knife is trumped by a larger work horse or at least so far in my limited experience. ..
Just wanted to collect some thoughts based on my observations, and your experiences.
 
For a ' one tool only ' scenario the Knatchet takes some beating ! The 3/16" convex grind still allows for knotching and carving !

p9270024.jpg

By pitdog2010 at 2010-09-27
 
The same thing happened on my first solo when 17.

MY FISKARS pruning saw saved my ass.

did you guys allow yourselves a saw?

great post man.
 
I generally have to agree. However, in most of the hiking and such I do, I find that I dont actually do all that much splitting and such. Mostly just collect wood and burn it. I tend to do my overnight stuff in the summer when dry wood is easy to find.

At this time of year id find an axe or lg blade very useful :)
 
Riley. You would benefit greatly from the experience of folks in the SERE community.

My primary tool on every outing is a large knife with a blade of at least 10". I carry a smaller one or two as well. My M-43 kukri or an axe work as well. I also always have a pocket chainsaw in the kit, I can make it up into a very effective bow/frame saw on site.

Did a trip like that once for 8 days with just a folding knife, and swore I would never do so again.

Same with the cookpot. You'd have to shoot me to get me to give up my Zebra Billies.
 
I think that you are absolutely right about the value of a large knife/axe. I also think that we sometimes overlook how useful they can be because typically (at least where I live) it's not bushcrafters who find themselves in emergencies where they need shelter unexpectedly. As a result it is the small blades that get the lion's share of use while the choppers wait for the chance to come out and play. When hikers are looking ways to shed ounces from their pack, the less-used 2-lbs tool is often placed on the chopping block.
 
What was in your tin? Did you find you should have brought different stuff in yours or your friends?
 
Hi RescueRiley -

I have to second the Knatchet - I like having this as a heavier chopper, and another smaller blade (like and Izula for instance) for the detail carving.

pitdog - did you ever see the completed Maple Burl Knatchet?

DSC_5188.JPG


I am a believer.

best regards -

mqqn
 
Good post Riley. Very good observations, and I think stuff like this is why outings like you and Tony had are such an important thing to do.

I really seem to reciprocate back and forth between a big knife and a small knife/hatchet combo. Both have pluses and minuses. Hard to say which is 'best'.
 
mqqn said:
Hi RescueRiley -

I have to second the Knatchet - I like having this as a heavier chopper, and another smaller blade (like and Izula for instance) for the detail carving.

pitdog - did you ever see the completed Maple Burl Knatchet?

DSC_5188.JPG


I am a believer.

best regards -

mqqn
Click to expand...

Yup, almost looks too nice to use !;):thumbup:
 
SPooky, I feel your pain.... I flip flop almost daily it seems
Scotman I brought a saw with the emergency gear but it we didn;t use it as it would have been cheating.. if something bad happened and we had to abort the challenge we had some extra gear as a safety net.
Nate PM sent
 
You know I muse over this question a lot on our weekend and overnight "survival" retreats.

I used to think a BIG knife was the answer. I am still quite attached to my BRKT Golok.

Then I really settled in on a three or four inch knife like a Stewart Marsh Bushcrafter or a BRKT Kephart. Once you learn to break wood between rocks and trees a medium knife will do 95% of what you need to do to "make it." In this size range even a stout folder will suffice if that is what you find yourself in the woods with.

However, lately I have been gaining skill with the hatchet. My Gränsfors Bruks Wildlife Hatchet will do most of what a medium knife will do plus it excels in what a knife falls behind doing. Several weeks ago I used my hatchet to field dress a deer and skin it, chopped wood and started a fire, used it as a ulu to cut tenderloin medallions, and cut poles for a rack to suspend them for roasting. I am used to using the hatchet along with a medium sheath knife and a folder but all in all if I was stranded with just the hatchet I think I would fare pretty well.

wildlifehatchet-osage.jpg
 
One of the main reasons I take a chopper every time I go in the woods. If I ever needed to get a fire or shelter, I know I will have one with me :thumbup:
 
I will ALWAYS believe that a Big Knife can do things a Small knife can do "better" than a Small Knife can do what a Big Knife can do.

Especially when it comes to making shelter..

YMMV
 
RescueRiley said:
It seems in traditional bush craft the emphasis seems to be on a detail knife ( which I am a big fan of) but in the short term survival scenario the specificity of the 4 inch belt knife is trumped by a larger work horse or at least so far in my limited experience. ..
Just wanted to collect some thoughts based on my observations, and your experiences.
Click to expand...

I don't know in traditional bushcraft (meaning stuff written by the old timers) a hatchet, or more often a trapper's axe, is considered the main #1 tool to have, not the belt knife. The rationale being, you can make shelter and fire faster with the axe than a knife, and an axe can be choked up on, and if sharp enough, do the detail work as well.


Consider this: Next time make the conditions be that one can carry a 3/4 axe or smaller, and a billy can or Swedish mess kit type contraption, with whatever they can fit in it. See how much more comfy you can be.
 
Bushcrafting is on purpose, survival is by accident. You might take an axe on a bushcrafting excusion to make life easier, but it's kind of hard to EDC an axe or really big knife just in case you end up stuck in the wilderness.

Seems to me that your outing reinforced the fact that you CAN get by, if you have to, without your chopper. Sure, it would increase your odds of survival to have it, but you won't always have it with you and you were a far sight better off with that 4" blade than you would have been with just a small folder.

I keep going back and forth between a big knife and a hatchet. Never liked hatchets much - preferring a full-sized axe, but that is too big and heavy to drag everywhere - all the time. I keep liking my BK9 more and more though and it wouldn't be all that hard to pack along.
 
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I have watched a few reviews on the Gransfor Bruks Wildlife Hatchet, and after seeing them I feel like you can pretty much do anything with it. Naturally, I ordered one, and it should be here next week...

I will always have my Murray Carter or Izula around my neck when I head into the bush, but now instead of my Junglas I think I am going to give my little hatchet a try. I have never used a hatchet or axe for bushcraft really, but I'm very excited to see how it performs...
 
Jeff H said:
Bushcrafting is on purpose, survival is by accident. You might take an axe on a bushcrafting excusion to make life easier, but it's kind of hard to EDC an axe or really big knife just in case you end up stuck in the wilderness.
Click to expand...

Where would you be that is not in the wilderness that would force your EDC into wilderness survival gear?
 
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