a heavy tool for survivng th first 24

tabeeb762 said:
Not much you can do with a broken pelvis besides lay under a space blanket.
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Maybe but this dude is one tough sob with his injuries.:D The ultimate survival documentary imo. Check it out. You won't be disappointed.
[youtube]qjD6Y_YMxZg[/youtube]
 
RescueRiley said:
allot of good points coming up here.. in regards to prior knowledge.. I think if you carry a heavy cutting tool when out headed out for terrain where the potential exists.. That does not require foresight but merely a prepared mind set.. I carry pretty much the same kit whenever I go outdoors.. and there is Always a heavy cutting tool. ( bk7 at the small end, a khukri axe or hawk atthe other) this is the same whether out for a day hike, a practice session or a a few days...
and whilst I have no knowledge of any impending scenario... I feel a little but more prepared to handle it.
I guess my point is if getting lost or ending up in a situation where you might have to spend an unplanned time in the woods. for the bulk of emergent tasks a larger tool is beneficial.. so wouldn;t it make sense to incorporate such a tool in to your woods walking layout, in l;ieu of a more specialized tool?
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For the most part not for me, and certainly not for me in the 24hr scenario.

Outside of the 24hr scenario and dependent on location and the possible hope of extraction and my position would change some. Stuck in some remote part of Norway for a week or so with no likeliness of getting help and I'm strongly shifting my emphasis from short term survival concentrating on casualty evacuation, staying put, and staying dry, to more of making some sort of lifestyle. I'm going to care about sleep, and food and fire and whatever else. For that the big cutter could start to pay dividends. Short term, which I believe statistically is far more likely, all of that pales into insignificance. Short term I want shelter immediately not in half an hour from now or even in several hours. I want that shelter to be something I can put up anywhere. Take even this humble example. That's going to be far quicker to put up than anything you could build from natural materials even supposing the natural materials were available to you, and you were in the state to make the best of them. And even equipped with a chainsaw, axes, saws, chisels and whatever else it's going to take you all day to match it for weatherproofing. The single exception that occurs to me there would be the snow hole. Wind in the hi-viz and the potential for sharing body heat and it's already starting to streak ahead. Last there's the weight: I picked a 4 man job there 'cos it really does illustrate a point well. That 4 man one weighs about the same as my golok or many other big knives. And going by the weight of a tomahawk someone here was taking seriously as a survival tool the other day I could carry three of these instead. Magnifying the numbers like that often discloses weakness. With specialized kit one could have 12*warm dry people in 5mins, with that tomahawk....dunno, rather him than any of my team anyway.

Like I said, I usually use a mashup of kit so none of this stuff is relevant. I don't need the golok or the bothy because I have tarp, bivvy bag, sleeping bag, fuel, batteries, and utility cutting tools that can be pressed into service to fill in any gaps in the system that may occur. But let's suppose I was out with a daysack Munro Bagging and it was my task to wait for 24-48hrs for mountain rescue, there hasn't yet been a big knife devised that would make me pick it in exchange for the opportunity to buddy up in a bothy bag. And if it works there it'll definitely work in the woods.
 
I saw that I shouldn't be alive episode.

While the guy was ex military he wasn't just out on a camping trip. He was on an endurance trek/race that he had set for himself. He did several things which are contrary to all his previous training. Including having all his gear in that one bag.

A large knife secured in a well designed sheath strapped down to his leg would have saved him a bit of grief. Asw ould having his other primary survival supplies spread through his pockets.

Following the advice of the locals would have served him even better.
 
Regardless of his own goal, I just used it as an example to show that getting separated from your gear and only having your EDC type equipment is possible.

Plus it's interesting trying to make due with what you have in your pockets :)
 
Very Cool on the storm shelters, that has slipped my mind.

Adding it to the "List".

thanks,
scott
 
Hey baldtaco-II do you own that storm shelter? If anyone on here does can you tell us more about them?
 
I've been contemplating a Condor Barong:

CN48014HC.jpg


1075 steel, 1/4" thick at the handle, convexed edge, 14" blade, polypropylene handle.

What do you all think?
 
Great thread John....I agree with you. Im not particularly a big blade fan, but I can see the need for something like a Khuk, camp knife, chete, axe, etc.... Id take one of those if came down to the old There can be only one! discussion.

I like having my trio of fixed blade, axe, Vic Farmer. I do have a 14in Condor, but it doesnt see too much action.
 
Barbarossa, hola

No, but that's only because I am very entrenched in my own home-brewed Silnylon roof. If I wanted one of these too I'd machine one up, although I'd need to plot up on the best material to use for the windows. There's loads of options for that but the headscratch would be the size/durability/weigh business with the windows and vents.

Hard to know what to say about bothies. Traditionally they are not much more than a hard unlocked mountain hut for sheltering in Wiki. Further reading on UK ones. This rose by any other name is ubiquitous across Europe and I've seen equivalent ones Stateside.

The soft ones I've linked to here just seemed to have paralleled advances in fabric as with shell clothing, bivvy bags and whatever else. There's such variation between them in terms of size, materials and construction it is impossible to be anything more than general about them. They've certainly come into their own amongst the mountain rescue teams and can be used for anything from benign briefings and lunch stops through to treating casualties. Have a peek at some of the variation here. The big 20 man one at the top looks ideal for reinforcing a sense of group solidarity [even if the fumes contained don't]. Others are tiny and would require a good amount of cooperation to be exploited for the best or as someone else said “you'll look like a knackered pantomime horse”. Whatever, they are now staples for group leaders to carry and in the SAR community.

If I were seriously interested in buying one I'd be very attentive to windproof with a good amount of water repellency and genuinely waterproof, and what exactly supports it. Does it just drape over two heads, one head and a pack, or are their spots to jam your walking poles in and so on. There's not much more I can add save for if the choice came down to big knife, one of these, or military sized poncho I know what team I'd be batting for.
 
A) Lots of good points made in this thread. Also lots of personal preference and deference to 'home' environment.

B) Riley- It would be a pretty cool experiment for one of you to take a 'big knife' to build an emergency camp/shelter/etc. Then the other take a set of ~4" belt knife plus an axe/hawk. It would be very interesting to see who has the 'easier' time.
 
Good thread. I have to agree with baldtaco's first post here that its not so much about the tool (big knife versus small knife) but rather the gear you have and what works in a given environment. Basically one reason a lot of people forgoe a big chopper is because they are carrying their shelter with them, whether that be a tent, tarp, hammock, bivy or a couple of emergency blankets.

Personally, if I'm on a dayhike in unknown country there will be a couple of items I make sure I have. First will be redundant navigation, second I'll have some kind of shelter and 3rd I'll likely have some kind of stove/pot. If you have all that, you probably don't also need a big chopper. As to the comments about what happens when you loose all that? Same critique can be said for that big chopper...Its just as easily lost as your tarp etc.

Now recognizing the point of this exercise was to go out with an altoids tin and knife and make due, I say kudos for completing the experiment. When John concludes that he wish he had an axe, what would happen if he said - okay for the 2 lbs and volume of an axe, what other gear could have also made his life enjoyable? I'm sure there would be plenty of solutions, some of them being different types of cutting tools, but some of them being plain jane things like a silnylon tarp and SS cup to nest a water bottle...

Thanks for posting John!
 
SKACHET.jpg


For those that can not chose between a knife and a hatchet. The is always a Skachet if you can find one of the old ones.


There was a time before the web when I spent nearly every weekend in the woods back packing, fishing or hunting. My tools where that Skachet, a USAF pilot's survival knife, folding camp saw and a folding Buck knife.

Of course that was back before I knew they were not made of special unobtainium steel or designed by a special forces guru. I used them and they worked. As for the Skachet it did its job and more. I carried a Schrade diamond pocket hone to keep an edge on it. Over the years I did everything from split deer pelvis' to split kindling, to prepare food with it.

Skachets work great as a hand axe or ulu or scraper. Mounted on a wooden handle it serves well as a light hatchet or perhaps more like a utility tomahawk. I like the fact you have a hammer end. It served me well to drive many a tent stake.

The same Skachet as shown in those pics still resides in my bug out bag along with a stout fixed blade knife and a folding saw. Also a WWII canteen complete with cover, cup and nesting stove rounds out the early 1960 era wilderness kit.

HUMMMM.......I guess I have not come that far since 1975 as I thought.
 
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Ken you hit it on the head brother.
WHen I go out Whether it be for 2 hours or 2 days my gear stays primarily the same except for rations and a bed roll
a poncho cordage and a stainless cup as well as a variety of cutting, navigation, 1st aid and signaling equipment are at hand.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
I asked because I figured that we'd gone over the fact that most people whop get themselves into real trouble are the ones that go out underequipped because it's "just a little day hike", and figured that we'd gotten out of that mindset.

Even if one is worried about weight, a machete is cheap, and very light, and would have made his life a lot more pleasant.
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I gotcha. That's why I didn't understand why you were asking. I thought we were all on the same page. I believe we were I just took that for granted and didn't make it clear in my comments. Really, "underprepared" with a four inch blade is still much more prepared than the dudes in t-shirts and a water bottle. Still, I feel pangs of guilt for mot carrying a larger knife more often, but I ALWAYS have at least a reasonably capable smaller knife. Yeah, if I get in a pickle some day, I'll wish I had my BK9. If I have my BK9, I'll wish I had my axe.....:o

Tough to decide what to carry along on a given outing.
 
I think an axe or hatchet is the king for preparing firewood, but a big knife would be great for quickly harvesting pine boughs for bedding or shelter.
 
I'm trying to learn from this but some things are unclear. You had a knife and what fits in an altoids tin( an extra emergency gear for safety sake)

Were the things you did actually needed for your survival? Was your clothing limited so you actually needed fire to maintain core temps; was the weather such you required shelter from rain, wind. ( I think of times I set my tarp and imagine it to be pretty good and have high wind and crazy rain upset it; or carry it for 3 days and never use it.

I understand you wanted to see how your chosen gear fared. But wouldn't a big knife guy, axeman, pocket folder tramp each look at the same environment with the eye to exploit their individual niche.
Was there a better solution to the fire and shelter trial, in choice of materials that would better suit the tools at hand?
( Iv'e made some huge progress lightening my base load. I can carry a 2lb axe and still be lighter than what I had last year- so I can exploit that whole 4 inch broken branch rather than snapping what I can and going to the next.
Which is less work; I don't know. I've made choices in tools to make it fun and interesting to me. How much does what we choose in the first place depend on the image we wish to project?

I don't know that I've made any relevant points, or made sense-perhaps only exploring my own psyche. help:)
 
I'm with the big knife school. :thumbup:

Using a big blade for dirty work is so much faster and more efficient than using my 4" Mora and a baton to do it.

I don't worry about the weight. :yawn:

If I'm to the point that 10, 12, or 14 ounces makes that much of a difference, I'm probably close to dead anyway. ;)

It's like a discussion of ultra light weight rifles I was involved in one time. If a couple of pounds is going to make THAT much difference, then I'm better off watching what I eat and exercising reguarly than getting a super light rifle.

Same thing when it comes to big knives. Of course, YMMV.
 
Just trying to get to grips here.
what is everyone doing when they've got the choppers and axes on their belts? Hiking, Hunting?
 
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