A highlight of Blade, a request and a story and Pics you will never see again

Very cool knife, Ren. I think it would profit from a natural handle material like stag, figured wood, or even something as simple as ebony or blackwood.

It was good to visit with you at the show, and I thank you again for your generosity.
 
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Ok as promised Master Chen has allowed me to show you his incredible process for making swords and Knives ( for the American Market) Many master Sword Smiths in Asia and points east will not share these secrets to anyone but their apprentice. Since Master Chen is self taught he has no master. Ala Pen and Teller he can show us how his magic is performed. However his craft is not slight of hand...

So lets begin..

First Master Chen begins with Iron Sand that he mines himself out of the indegeonous Rock Strata from where he lives...

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Into the smelter it goes...this process fires the sand to extreme temp to remove the metal from the sand..

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as the smelting process begins the higher carbon steels will stay to the bottom of the smelter. The Slag lower carbon material will float near the top..

in this picture the high carbon steel is being extracted painstakingly from the smelter...

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From over ( and maybe Bobby you could jump in here with actual kilo weight) but I believe that over 240lbs of sand a 15lb billit of appropriate usable steel is extracted. Note the molten steel is carefully carried...to...


a rapid quench in cold water...this cools the steel very fast and makes it very brittle...

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Thus making it easy to further remove impurities and low carbon impurities..In this picture the billit is now smashed with a sledge hammer and the two colors of steels...dark black and Gray are seperated. Again if Bobby could jump in and say which is which I would appreciate...
10-1.jpg


More tomorrow...stay tuned..:)
 
Wow. That's a cool process.

I have to say I prefer wood as a handle material. Not that there's a problem with synthetics, especially when durability is a concern.

I'd like to see the handle more rounded to fit the hand. I don't like handles with flat planes abruptly transitioning into other flat planes. It's not natural. When I'm shaping, I grab the handle firmly and feel for any place that puts more pressure on my hand. I then round it off until there aren't any noticeable pressure points.

Phillip
 
Now that's what you call starting from scratch. Great stuff Ren, thanks for sharing.

Don't think those sandals are OSHA compliant though. ;) :D
 
Phillip Dobson said:
Wow. That's a cool process.

I have to say I prefer wood as a handle material. Not that there's a problem with synthetics, especially when durability is a concern.

I'd like to see the handle more rounded to fit the hand. I don't like handles with flat planes abruptly transitioning into other flat planes. It's not natural. When I'm shaping, I grab the handle firmly and feel for any place that puts more pressure on my hand. I then round it off until there aren't any noticeable pressure points.

Phillip
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that was the plan. i did it just as you said. or i tired to do it that way. i checked each handle and i used a scotch bright belt to take the edges off and felt of the handle then checked again for sharp corners. then went to a buffing wheel to polish the tops of the checkering and that let the top have a shine and the cavities in the micarta a rough look. this give a contrast that i liked. you still get the texture for the grip but the softness of the smoothed tops. or that is the plan anyway
 
Kevin Jones said:
Now that's what you call starting from scratch. Great stuff Ren, thanks for sharing.

Don't think those sandals are OSHA compliant though. ;) :D
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i guess it is as close as you get to a real handmade knife. if you make your own steel then make the knife. it took me a couple of days for me to understand mr chen when he told me this at the show. i am slow but most times i get there. he said the knives we make are as close to real handmade as anyone in the show. he told me in english and in chinese. 24 hours or so later i understood what he meant.

other people have told him about the sandals. his reply is as follows: <quote> "i don't care about my feet the girls only look at my head so i like to keep my head pretty" <unquote> so if he burns his foot he does not care but he does not want to burn his hair.
 
Ren the devils trailboss said:
Ok as promised Master Chen has allowed me to show you his incredible process for making swords and Knives ( for the American Market) Many master Sword Smiths in Asia and points east will not share these secrets to anyone but their apprentice. Since Master Chen is self taught he has no master. Ala Pen and Teller he can show us how his magic is performed. However his craft is not slight of hand...

So lets begin..

First Master Chen begins with Iron Sand that he mines himself out of the indegeonous Rock Strata from where he lives...

1.jpg


Into the smelter it goes...this process fires the sand to extreme temp to remove the metal from the sand..

3-1.jpg


4-1.jpg


as the smelting process begins the higher carbon steels will stay to the bottom of the smelter. The Slag lower carbon material will float near the top..

in this picture the high carbon steel is being extracted painstakingly from the smelter...

5-1.jpg


8-1.jpg


From over ( and maybe Bobby you could jump in here with actual kilo weight) but I believe that over 240lbs of sand a 15lb billit of appropriate usable steel is extracted. Note the molten steel is carefully carried...to...


a rapid quench in cold water...this cools the steel very fast and makes it very brittle...

9-1.jpg


Thus making it easy to further remove impurities and low carbon impurities..In this picture the billit is now smashed with a sledge hammer and the two colors of steels...dark black and Gray are seperated. Again if Bobby could jump in and say which is which I would appreciate...
10-1.jpg


More tomorrow...stay tuned..:)
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the iron sand is removed from the river. i was there when it was delivered. it was wet. i asked mr chen are you going to pay for the water that is mixed with the sand too? he then went into talking down the price to not pay for the water. the iron sand comes from a river in china. i do not know which river. mr chen pays someone with big electro magnet to sorta dredge the river for the iron sand. the magnet will pick up the iron and let the rest stay behind. or that is the plan.

mr chen starts with 65 kgs of charcoal and 30 kgs of iron sand. i know Ren got the 5 minute tour and missed some parts. but i am impressed that he got as much as he did. it only took me a year to get as close as he is now.

if you notice the clay packed in the cracks of the smelter this is to stop any air or charcoal from coming out. the plug in the bottom is also clay. in that one picture you can see mr chen knocking out the clay plug to let the impurities drain out. most people think this is the steel but its the junk being separated.

as for the colors of the bloom ( the steel left after smelting ) it is beat with a hammer and each time it loses more impurities. then it is beat again and again. mr chen will heat it and beat it and each time it will lose more impurities.
 
Ren the devils trailboss said:
From over ( and maybe Bobby you could jump in here with actual kilo weight) but I believe that over 240lbs of sand a 15lb billit of appropriate usable steel is extracted. Note the molten steel is carefully carried...to...
Click to expand...




Awesome stuff so far Ren.


240Lb of ore to 15Lb of yield is really really low. unless your referring to the 15Lb billet as being finished usable steel.

240Lb of Iron sand should yield 100Lb to 150Lb of sponge bloom and you'll lose nearly 50% of that weight consolidating down to solid steel if not more depending on how much refinement he goes for.
 
stephanfowler said:
Awesome stuff so far Ren.


240Lb of ore to 15Lb of yield is really really low. unless your referring to the 15Lb billet as being finished usable steel.

240Lb of Iron sand should yield 100Lb to 150Lb of sponge bloom and you'll lose nearly 50% of that weight consolidating down to solid steel if not more depending on how much refinement he goes for.
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mr chen's numbers are this: 30 kgs of iron sand is reduced to 4.5 kgs then it is hammered more. the photos will show each step. as ren progresses
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I have found a website that has many different Zubeng designs, including a bowie.

http://www.rghknives.com.tw/index.php?manufacturers_id=117&osCsid=r1tga7k1ptmof0p3t3m7fop9v4
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That shop is owned by a good friend of mine :thumbup:
He has told me a few interesting things about Zubeng.

I'm glad to see this thread asking for advice on handles. I have rehandled and reshaped a few Zubeng knives for people here in Taiwan. The handles unfortunately do leave a bit to be desired and can be a let down on the over all package Zubeng offer. The steel is great stuff though and I have been lucky enough to have the oportunity to play with a few of the knives and own a couple of the smaller blades my self.
 
Haze said:
That shop is owned by a good friend of mine :thumbup:
He has told me a few interesting things about Zubeng.

I'm glad to see this thread asking for advice on handles. I have rehandled and reshaped a few Zubeng knives for people here in Taiwan. The handles unfortunately do leave a bit to be desired and can be a let down on the over all package Zubeng offer. The steel is great stuff though and I have been lucky enough to have the oportunity to play with a few of the knives and own a couple of the smaller blades my self.
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Haze share some details on what you rehandled with in terms of materials and also when you reshaped what and how did you reshape. It would be helpful to Master Chen.
 
Ren the devils trailboss said:
Haze share some details on what you rehandled with in terms of materials and also when you reshaped what and how did you reshape. It would be helpful to Master Chen.
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Most of the reshaping I'v done was to remove finger grooves on the handle that
were either in the wrong place or were just not a good fit for that particular owner.

To do the reshaping I use a belt grinder for the most part and then polish the reworked area
back up to match the rest of the knife. The blades are dif-tempered so the steel is quite soft
on the handles, its always super easy to work with or drill the handle areas.

As to materials I have done G-10, cord wraped and wood handles for his knives. I have been asked to do a Ti
handle for one of his knives too but havent got round to that one yet. I have also just cleaned
up the F&F or contoured the scales already on the knife as apart from a few oddly shaped handles that is usually the only real problem.
 
To Continue where I left off. After the billet is cooled and smashed. Master chen begins to seperate the high carbon Steel from the Low carbon Steel. As you can see there is very little left of the original Iron Sand that went into the Smelter. We are getting to the good stuff that makes Master Chens blades.
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this small billet is then thrown back into the fires of hell and reheated and folded and folded and folded..

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and recooled and re heated and smashed and more impurities painstakingly removed from the forming Damascus..

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you can see by this picture again that after reheating and folding and cooling and reheating again. only the Highest of pure carbon steel maintains the high metallic sheen where the lower carbon steels maintain the grayish color. Master Chen separates these two steels one for use now one for use later.

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I am guessing this is a good place again to pause to ask the question of the metal smiths here. Why would Master Chen seperate the two Carbon steels and save one for later? hmmmm I know the answer do you?
 
i think i can answer this. he breaks it and separates it to get the high carbon and the low carbon.the high carbon will have a silver sheen to it. the low carbon will be a darker color. master chen chooses these by hand and only his trained eye knows the difference. i have watched him do this and they all look the same to me. he will pick one up and say look at this piece.

when he picks these silver pieces up he will do a little dance of delight. that is the best of the best.

i am sorry to say they all look the same to me unless he points it out.

the high carbon will be made into a billet and go into the outer part of the sword and the darker part will be made into a billet go into the center. this gives 2 different harnesses of steel. this will be important later in the thread.
 
JParanee said:
Always interested in forged blades . Show pics of more of his knives and or swords. This model looks kinda similar to the Busse line. It looks to be a very nice camp knife . Does he do fighters. Does he do more traditional Japenese kwaikens , tanto's etc.
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i will try to post some pictures of other knives mr chen does but i want to do it with good pictures. i will try anyway here goes.

he does lots of different knives but i want to post the ones that has the best pictures.
 

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JParanee said:
Always interested in forged blades . Show pics of more of his knives and or swords. This model looks kinda similar to the Busse line. It looks to be a very nice camp knife . Does he do fighters. Does he do more traditional Japenese kwaikens , tanto's etc.
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yes he does do others. i asked him about this. there is some blades made and ready for polishing and mounting. i will try to take some pictures for you if you want.
 
Don Cowles said:
Very cool knife, Ren. I think it would profit from a natural handle material like stag, figured wood, or even something as simple as ebony or blackwood.

It was good to visit with you at the show, and I thank you again for your generosity.
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i have a blade almost ready. would you like one in ebony or blackwood. i have both and with a red paper backing?
 
To continue...Sorry for the delay in pics but I have worked about 40 hours in 3 days and am pretty whipped...buuuut...

The steel as it is seperated is then reheated in Charcoal fire...

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once the billet is heated again it is hammered and folded repeatedly

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re heat treat and cooling is continuous untill Master chen is satisfied that the quality of the damascus steel is the finest..

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the times master chen does this process is almost ridiculous...note in this picture the size of the billet he is now working with and smashing further to remove high and low carbon elements. Again as Bobby stated earlier only a master sword smiths trained eye can determine the high carbon from the low carbon steel. The billet grows smaller and stronger..

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more tomorrow if I am not too exhausted...:)
 
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