A Look At The Kershaw 1760 Skyline (What was TNP thinking???)

[Rolex John]

the opinions of a novice are less valid because they lack credibility.

when you want an opinion on anything, do you seek the advice of a novice or an expert?

if you are asking the novice, you're doing it wrong.

The opinions of a novice are no more or less valid than that of an expert. They may be less educated, and thus less meaningful. But not less valid. Likewise, expertise is helpful for credibility. It is however no guarantee of credibility.

 

[sharpandsafe]

I think your defense of R-J and your rebuke of Thomas are misguided. This is R-J's thread. He started out with "What was TNP thinking???", and stated that he was going to take Nutnfancy to task. Going on, he also stated that Nutnfacy "missed the mark" with his review.

I respectfully disagree. Yeah, I think John was brash in his criticism of the Skyline, and ESPECIALLY in his derision of nutnfancy (who I don't think missed the mark at all), but I am pretty offended by Thomas' belittling of John. I think it would have been much more appropriate and mature for Thomas to respectfully explain to John where he is wrong, but instead he chose to fling insults which helped to set up a highly adversarial tone to this thread.

I stand behind my statements.

 

[Rolex John]

If you look into R-J's website and YouTube page, it is pretty clear that he doesn't think of himself as a novice at all. He tries to come across as someone we can all learn from.

Interesting. And what sort of evidence do you present to support this unsubstantiated (and ridiculously false) claim? Where exactly do I trumpet the fact that I'm an "expert" or final authority on knives?

For the record, Nutnfancy doesn't consider himself an expert either - he often says he's simply "a data point." I'm no different. I'm just a guy who is offering an opinion. Worth what you paid for it, or whatever you use it for.

 

[Rolex John]

I respectfully disagree. Yeah, I think John was brash in his criticism of the Skyline, and ESPECIALLY in his derision of nutnfancy

I think that's a valid and deserved point of criticism. The title and the tone of the review was sensational in nature, and purposely so. It was intended to stir the pot a bit. For better or worse, the strategy seems to have worked.

 

[Thomas W]

I also own the Kershaw Breakout, as I mention in my Skyline review. Have you seen that video review?

No.

There's nothing wrong with my finger dexterity (not that much is required to open a knife).

I believe there is much required, but that's just me seeing many, many people over the decades cut themselves in trying to open a simple little knife.

If you're up for it John, I have a knife (manual thumbstud opener) that I'd like to send you for a review. Some folks have trouble opening it, and I'd like to hear your opinion. No hard feelings if you're not interested.

As for my technique, I've clearly stated that, thanks to comments left on my video (you know, after I made the video?) I've learned the secondary technique which you've spoken of.

Awesome!

Where's Jen from Nutnfancy's Shotshow 2011 booth review? She was not only cordial, but could accept product criticism and acknowledge problems, not blame them on the user being a "novice."

She's doing some filing for me.

Really? You missed the part of the video where I went out of the way to talk about how I liked the blade and the way it cut?

I admit it, I didn't get past the first 3 minutes.

Of course, in your eyes I'm such a knife neophyte, I'm wondering how in the world I'm supposed to know how the blade cuts? I'm sure I'm not nearly advanced enough to be able to make such an enlightened determination. I'd probably only injure myself or others if I tried to actually use the knife to cut anything....

Let's not make false assumptions now or put words in my mouth John... Believe it or not it takes skill and experience to cut properly.

I think that's a valid and deserved point of criticism. The title and the tone of the review was sensational in nature, and purposely so. It was intended to stir the pot a bit. For better or worse, the strategy seems to have worked.

Then why are you getting so upset?

 

[sharpandsafe]

Interesting. And what sort of evidence do you present to support this unsubstantiated (and ridiculously false) claim? Where exactly do I trumpet the fact that I'm an "expert" or final authority on knives?

For the record, Nutnfancy doesn't consider himself an expert either - he often says he's simply "a data point." I'm no different. I'm just a guy who is offering an opinion. Worth what you paid for it, or whatever you use it for.

Ugh, all this bickering is making me crazy. John, maybe a suggestion: you should start your knife reviews clearly stating your "user class" or level of experience, and urging that you only represent one opinion among many, and people should seek out other viewpoints also. It's sound a bit weak and less than confident, but maybe you will get more constructive feedback that way. I don't know. At least I am intelligent enough to seek out other opinions and refrain from assuming that every knife reviewer on the internet has a PhD in slice-ology. It seems some others aren't.

It looks like you got a few positive, helpful responses here, and learned a new flipper technique to boot! I hope you will continue to share your opinions, but without comparing them to those of nutnfancy or others. I really think its more helpful to get a first-cut opinion of a knife rather than a contradiction or reaction to another opinion.

 

[sharpandsafe]

Thanks for your last comments, Thomas - they are much gentler and easier for my delicate sensibilities to absorb.

Then why are you getting so upset?

Well, I guess that seems like a pretty valid question considering...

 

[1234]

The title and the tone of the review was sensational in nature, and purposely so. It was intended to stir the pot a bit. For better or worse, the strategy seems to have worked.

Now you are moving in to troll territory .



1234,,,,,,,

 

[KeithAM]

The title and the tone of the review was sensational in nature, and purposely so. It was intended to stir the pot a bit. For better or worse, the strategy seems to have worked.

You aim too low. That, in addition to your novice status, seriously diminishes the credibility of your review.

 

[Rolex John]

No.
I believe there is much required, but that's just me seeing many, many people over the decades cut themselves in trying to open a simple little knife.

If you're up for it John, I have a knife (manual thumbstud opener) that I'd like to send you for a review. Some folks have trouble opening it, and I'd like to hear your opinion. No hard feelings if you're not interested.

OK. I'm game. I'll PM you a shipping address.

She's doing some filing for me.

I think you should switch jobs.

I admit it, I didn't get past the first 3 minutes.

At least you were honest. But wow....all this criticism from you and you didn't even watch the entire thing? Humor me and do that will you?

 

[KJlost]

This is hilarious display of attention gathering. That's what I've learned.

 

[BluesStringer]

Where's Jen from Nutnfancy's Shotshow 2011 booth review? She was not only cordial, but could accept product criticism and acknowledge problems, not blame them on the user being a "novice."

Apparently you're as much a novice at scrutinizing nutnfancy's and his guest's words and demeanor as you were with flippers before one of your viewers gave you instruction on how to use them.

What I mean by that is that when Jen was launching into the segment about the Breakout, she recounted a story about an obviously novice customer who had not heeded her warnings to hold onto the knife firmly when deploying the blade, the result of which was a wound to his leg when deployment caused the knife to launch out of his lightweight grip. As she was recounting the story, everyone within earshot of the microphone, including Jen, was clearly amused and entertained by the rookie mistake.

Now, please Jen if you're reading, don't take this post wrong, or Thomas, please don't relate it to her without the following caveat:

I am not criticizing Jen for any part of that booth review. I thought she was the most knowledgeable, articulate, interesting, and without a doubt, cutest guest that nutnfancy had in any of his SHOT 2011 videos. The only thing I am criticizing here is RJ for clearly misrepresenting Jen's participation in that video just to take an unjustified shot at Thomas' representation of his company and its products.

Yeah, I think John was brash in his criticism of the Skyline, and ESPECIALLY in his derision of nutnfancy (who I don't think missed the mark at all)....

I think that's a valid and deserved point of criticism. The title and the tone of the review was sensational in nature, and purposely so. It was intended to stir the pot a bit. [/B]For better or worse, the strategy seems to have worked.

Like I said when I first posted in this thread, your use of nutnfancy's popularity and name-recognition in the title of your video reeks of just trying to get a novice and amateur review of a knife you didn't even know how to operate properly to the top of YouTube's search results. You have as much as admitted it with the above quote. Controversy, or stirring the pot if you prefer, is great for view-clicks after all. I find your strategy rather contemptible myself, but I offer that opinion as just one data point for you or anyone else to consider or discount as they see fit.

Most folks' criticisms of you have been and continue to be about that fact alone from what I can discern, and though direct and blunt in many cases, I haven't seen the disrespect you keep complaining about. Buck up. If you're going to draw attention to yourself by playing on the popularity of others, get prepared to be criticized for it. It's the least that your "strategy" demands of fair-minded forumites.

Blues

 

[RevDevil]

This is hilarious display of attention gathering. That's what I've learned.

Indeed. The display of attention getting as well as hypersensitivity has made this thread reek of pure estrogen. I cannot say in this part of the forum what I've learned without getting infracted. Let's just say...no one is impressed in a positive way with the OP. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen...

 

[JNewell]

As far as I can tell, there's only one reason this thread is still going, seven pages later.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

The opinions of a novice are no more or less valid than that of an expert. They may be less educated, and thus less meaningful. But not less valid. Likewise, expertise is helpful for credibility. It is however no guarantee of credibility.

you're just trying to rationalize your own ignorance.

by definition, a novice's opinion is less educated than the expert.

if it is less meaningful, less educated, and lacks credibility, it is less valid.

an expert source is, by definition, credible. if it is not credible, it is not an expert opinion.

 

[Leadfoot2]

My guess that Thomas's replies in this thread, has and will sell more Kershaw's than RJ and Nutn ever will.

Leadfoot


Leadfoot

 

[jkulysses]

 

[Rolex John]

you're just trying to rationalize your own ignorance.

Not in the slightest - you're the only ignorant one in this exchange. A novice can being a fresh perspective which isn't encumbered by years of myopia that can come from gaining expertise in a given subject area. Also, a "novice" in one particular subject area likely has expertise in other areas that any given subject matter expert may not....expertise which may be extremely valuable and applicable.

by definition, a novice's opinion is less educated than the expert.

I said as much yes. Less educated does not however automatically equate to less valid. For example: I may have no expertise whatsoever, in knives. However, I can pick up a knife, and in my novice assessment, conclude the knife isn't sharp. Someone else with several years of experience and education in cutlery can pick up the knife and draw the same conclusion. My novice option is in this situation, no less valid than that of the expert.

if it is less meaningful, less educated, and lacks credibility, it is less valid.

an expert source is, by definition, credible. if it is not credible, it is not an expert opinion.

You assume an educated opinion automatically equates to credibility and validity - completely incorrect. Why else do people seek out 2nd and 3rd opinions from lawyers, doctors, and other subject matter experts? If all that was required for credibility and validity was education, then one educated opinion would all that is required.

In short, you're quite incorrect. You personally may ONLY value an "expert" opinion, but that's certainly not true or "valid" in a broader sense. Many of us like to sample several different data points from a variety of sources and perspectives before drawing conclusions.

 

[Rolex John]

Thanks for your last comments, Thomas - they are much gentler and easier for my delicate sensibilities to absorb.

Well, I guess that seems like a pretty valid question considering...

Who's upset? I'm disappointed in several of the responses here, and by the culture of Bladeforums, but I don't let this sort of thing bother me in the least.

 

[Rolex John]

Like I said when I first posted in this thread, your use of nutnfancy's popularity and name-recognition in the title of your video reeks of just trying to get a novice and amateur review of a knife you didn't even know how to operate properly to the top of YouTube's search results.

Employ a modicum of logic, and you'll see how foolishly ludicrous your conclusion is.

I have roughly 50 videos on my channel. Neither before or since my Skyline video have I made any reference to Nutnfancy. If I truly thought leveraging Nutnfancy's success was the key to my own, it stands to reason that you'd see Nutnfancy mentioned in every video I've produced. There was a clear and legitimate purpose behind my video.

The fact of the matter is, as I clearly explained in the video, Nutnfancy's calling the Skyline a "Hall of Famer" played a strong part of why I purchased the knife. When I got the knife and it was, in my own evaluation, less than deserving of such a title, I made a video intended to be a counterpoint to his. It was a legitimate sharing of a legitimate point of view. It wasn't, as you suggest, simply a ploy or ruse with the sole intent for exploitation or self-promotion. The subject matter was simply controversial in nature, and I chose to underscore the point.

Perhaps you too should put some energy into producing content which both entertains and is helpful, and less time and energy into trying to tear down the work of others.