A Look At The Kershaw 1760 Skyline (What was TNP thinking???)

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Rolex John said:
I just have to say that it's disappointing to see so many individuals post in this thread who lack the temerity to hold a polite and meaningful debate without resorting to personal insults, and the sort of rudeness which you so often see people resort to from the anonymity and safety from behind their keyboard, and never in person. To conduct one's self in such a way shows such a lack of integrity ...sad.

Why would anyone want to make someone else feel bad because of their opinion of a knife? Is your life so horrible that this is the only way you can feel joy or feel good about yourself? Very sad indeed.
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I believe you misused the word "temerity."

Definition of TEMERITY
1: unreasonable or foolhardy contempt of danger or opposition : rashness, recklessness
2: a rash or reckless act
 
R-J, did you have any correspondence with Nutnfancy on this issue? Did you email or speak to him and "take him to task" personally, before you "set him straight" in your video review?

Remember, Dude...Your mileage may vary. :D
 
BrewCity59 said:
R-J, did you have any correspondence with Nutnfancy on this issue? Did you email or speak to him and "take him to task" personally, before you "set him straight" in your video review?

Remember, Dude...Your mileage may vary. :D
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Nutnfancy is extremely difficult to reach. I've made attempts to reach him in the past, and not been successful. But no, I didn't attempt to reach him on this particular video.
 
Rolex John said:
Why would anyone want to make someone else feel bad because of their opinion of a knife? Is your life so horrible that this is the only way you can feel joy or feel good about yourself? Very sad indeed.
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Speaking of answering a question with a question; I'm not sure John, why would you want to "take Nutnfancy to task" over his opinion of a knife? Is your life so horrible that this is the only way you can feel joy or feel good about yourself? Very sad indeed.
 
I'm not getting it. What thoughts are you wanting/expecting from the viewers? I've also seen this same review on another forum I visit and it turned out much the same way.
 
sheepdog229 said:
Speaking of answering a question with a question; I'm not sure John, why would you want to "take Nutnfancy to task" over his opinion of a knife? Is your life so horrible that this is the only way you can feel joy or feel good about yourself? Very sad indeed.
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Whatever you're opinion of him, Nutnfancy has become an extremely influential product reviewer. As such, he has a greater level of accountability (the whole "with great power comes great responsibility" concept). And that's why I'm throwing a flag down on the field - in my opinion, their are negative aspects of this knife he underplayed, and in some cases totally ignored.

I also did so respectfully, without sarcasm or vilifying Nutnfancy. No personal attacks - simply my opinion of the knife and a counterpoint to his. Too bad not everyone who responded to this thread conducts themselves in kind....
 
Rolex John said:
Thomas - before I answer that question, I'll ask the same question of you. What did you learn from this thread?
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I didn't learn much John, but then I didn't do a video review a knife. You did, which is why I asked. You received 6 pages of feedback of which I just wondered what, if anything, you learned?

Your responses to members that gave you instruction and criticism to some of your responses were either ignored, or met with you just not giving an inch on your position (right or wrong). I felt we were all just discussing your review (which is what we do here), some had some solid advice, but you seemed to not really want instruction, there was no openness to receive, just one who had to stand by his original opinions.

I don't think anyone here was out to make you feel bad, or to humiliate your position, but there seemed to be a lack of wanting to have valued back and forth. Which bring me to again ask, what, if anything, did you learn John?
 
hatchetjack said:
I'm not getting it. What thoughts are you wanting/expecting from the viewers? I've also seen this same review on another forum I visit and it turned out much the same way.
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The same thing I would imagine anyone is looking for when they create a thread on a discussion forum. In both instances, I simply sought to engage in a meaningful, spirited, and respectful exchange of ideas and opinions. On the other forum you mention, there was, like here, some individuals who replied that lacked the ability to engage in a controversial topic without the use of personal attacks or general irrational behavior. I will say there was much better "signal to noise" in that thread.
 
Thomas W said:
I didn't learn much John, but then I didn't do a video review a knife. You did, which is why I asked. You received 6 pages of feedback of which I just wondered what, if anything, you learned?

Your responses to members that gave you instruction and criticism to some of your responses were either ignored, or met with you just not giving an inch on your position (right or wrong). I felt we were all just discussing your review (which is what we do here), some had some solid advice, but you seemed to not really want instruction, there was no openness to receive, just one who had to stand by his original opinions.

I don't think anyone here was out to make you feel bad, or to humiliate your position, but there seemed to be a lack of wanting to have valued back and forth. Which bring me to again ask, what, if anything, did you learn John?
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Thomas,

Your question seemed quite condescending in nature. I had hoped I was wrong, which is why I asked the question back to you. Unfortunately, I was 110% correct.

Given that I wasn't altogether complimentary of your company's product, and you're here to (let's face it) promote your product, I'm sure you're quite pleased to see any negative responses to my review, however irrationally they may be based or expessed. However, if you're going to honestly consider every response in the last six pages as constructive feedback, then you and I have very little else to discuss.

I think in your mind, I was supposed to have some sort of epiphany which would lead me to record another video essentially retracting the first. "Folks, I've seen the light...thanks to Thomas W and the brotherly love from Bladeforums, I now love flipper knives more than life itself, and understand that the thumb studs and pocket clip on the Skyline are beyond reproach." :rolleyes:

I'll repeat - I've learned the secondary method of flipper deployment (which was first pointed out to me in the comments section of my video) and still don't find flippers to be preferable as proper thumb studs (functionally or aesthetically). So no, nothing much of value was learned from this thread, beyond some insight into the culture of the Bladeforums community. And before you throw any more stones about me not backing down from my position, realize you've never once acknowledged even the possibility that the design of the thumb studs and pocket clip on the Skyline could be improved from their current state. Pot. Kettle. Black.
 
RJ- I just finished watching the video again and it wasn't bad. It is helpful to see a blade in action in real time with some personal commentary.

Makes one think about things one may not have considered. Would I get one after viewing? Probably not and that is because after seeing it in real time, it's not for me.

Nothing to do with either your commentary or that of TNP. I came to the conclusion by watching it being manipulated, size to hand ratio and size comparison to the BM Grip.

I think the video was fine standing on it's own, it's when you took TNP to task is where things will went awry and I'm guessing you must have given that some thought.
 
John, I wasn't trying to convert you to loving flippers more than any other knife ever produced (you're missing the point) . We have plenty of knives in all genres.
I saw your video, heard your words, knew what I was dealing with, and offered up that your technique needed to be tweaked, along with an explanation of the studs. Are you saying your technique and finger dexterity with the Skyline is the same now as when you made the vid?

It doesn't matter to me if you like the Skyline or not, but if your reviewing from novice hands and understanding, and are sincerely looking for feedback, you got the stone cold truth from me, and yes I know it stings.

How does the piece cut?
 
I think J-R came into this expecting everyone to respond to his video with a resounding "Wow, this guy is cool, right on". Maybe that's what happens on his watch channel. However, he quickly came to the brutal realization that, in trying to take someone to task in their own arena, you run the risk of looking like a putz.
 
Thomas W said:
It doesn't matter to me if you like the Skyline or not, but if your reviewing from novice hands and understanding, and are sincerely looking for feedback, you got the stone cold truth from me, and yes I know it stings.
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Thomas, I really think that your harsh criticism of John crosses the line. While you may be correct in the things you say, I think you could have said them in a more gentlemanly manner - with respect and courtesy.

John's opinions may be those of a novice, but does that make them any less valid? I really don't think so. The Skyline is a knife which is going to appeal to novices because of it's price point and because of the attention it has received from nutnfancy. It seems appropriate that it get a review from a novice perspective as well. Maybe this just isn't a knife that's well suited to a novice user. Kershaw makes many other fine products that might be more suitable to a novice at a similar price point. I can think of many of the wonderful and popular assisted openers you (Kershaw) have.

For the record, I can't get the flipper technique down either. I think mine is a bit stiff. It doesn't matter though. It opens way smoother than my Gerber Evo, and a tiny flick of the wrist is all that is needed to get the blade out with one motion.
 
sharpandsafe said:
Thomas, I really think that your harsh criticism of John crosses the line. While you may be correct in the things you say, I think you could have said them in a more gentlemanly manner - with respect and courtesy.

John's opinions may be those of a novice, but does that make them any less valid? I really don't think so. The Skyline is a knife which is going to appeal to novices because of it's price point and because of the attention it has received from nutnfancy. It seems appropriate that it get a review from a novice perspective as well. Maybe this just isn't a knife that's well suited to a novice user. Kershaw makes many other fine products that might be more suitable to a novice at a similar price point. I can think of many of the wonderful and popular assisted openers you (Kershaw) have.

For the record, I can't get the flipper technique down either. I think mine is a bit stiff. It doesn't matter though. It opens way smoother than my Gerber Evo, and a tiny flick of the wrist is all that is needed to get the blade out with one motion.
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the opinions of a novice are less valid because they lack credibility.

when you want an opinion on anything, do you seek the advice of a novice or an expert?

if you are asking the novice, you're doing it wrong.
 
Thomas W said:
We have plenty of knives in all genres.
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I'm well aware of that. I also own the Kershaw Breakout, as I mention in my Skyline review. Have you seen that video review?

Are you saying your technique and finger dexterity with the Skyline is the same now as when you made the vid?
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There's nothing wrong with my finger dexterity (not that much is required to open a knife). As for my technique, I've clearly stated that, thanks to comments left on my video (you know, after I made the video?) I've learned the secondary technique which you've spoken of.

It doesn't matter to me if you like the Skyline or not,
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Right...I know you don't care about me as a customer. It's the sharing of my less than favorable opinion I have of the knife which looks bad for Kershaw which you have a problem with.

but if your reviewing from novice hands and understanding, and are sincerely looking for feedback, you got the stone cold truth from me, and yes I know it stings.
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It's statements like this that make me wonder why Kershaw let's you near a public discussion forum? Where's Jen from Nutnfancy's Shotshow 2011 booth review? She was not only cordial, but could accept product criticism and acknowledge problems, not blame them on the user being a "novice."

How does the piece cut?
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Really? You missed the part of the video where I went out of the way to talk about how I liked the blade and the way it cut? :rolleyes:

Of course, in your eyes I'm such a knife neophyte, I'm wondering how in the world I'm supposed to know how the blade cuts? I'm sure I'm not nearly advanced enough to be able to make such an enlightened determination. I'd probably only injure myself or others if I tried to actually use the knife to cut anything.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:
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sharpandsafe said:
Thomas, I really think that your harsh criticism of John crosses the line. While you may be correct in the things you say, I think you could have said them in a more gentlemanly manner - with respect and courtesy.

John's opinions may be those of a novice, but does that make them any less valid? I really don't think so. The Skyline is a knife which is going to appeal to novices because of it's price point and because of the attention it has received from nutnfancy. It seems appropriate that it get a review from a novice perspective as well. Maybe this just isn't a knife that's well suited to a novice user. Kershaw makes many other fine products that might be more suitable to a novice at a similar price point. I can think of many of the wonderful and popular assisted openers you (Kershaw) have.

For the record, I can't get the flipper technique down either. I think mine is a bit stiff. It doesn't matter though. It opens way smoother than my Gerber Evo, and a tiny flick of the wrist is all that is needed to get the blade out with one motion.
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I think your defense of R-J and your rebuke of Thomas are misguided. This is R-J's thread. He started out with "What was TNP thinking???", and stated that he was going to take Nutnfancy to task. Going on, he also stated that Nutnfacy "missed the mark" with his review.

If you look into R-J's website and YouTube page, it is pretty clear that he doesn't think of himself as a novice at all. He tries to come across as someone we can all learn from. If he is going to take that position, then he has to also be willing to take a little heat and redirection. Thomas was right in telling R-J how things are.
 
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