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A new special steel
- Thread starter rrg991981
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2009
- Messages
- 576
I'd probably pass on the steel as I would not be qualified to comment on the quality in comparison to other steels.
A couple of important points (pointed out above, but in different words)!
- Knowing the composition of the steel in advance will be helpful in deciding what kind of knife to make. Chromium content, for example, helps guide whether it can be a salt-water fillet knife or chef's knife.
- Different knifemakers give different attention to heat treatment - if the steel is complex enough to require special care in heat treating, it would be well worth getting detailed notes back from the knifemaker as to how the heat treating was performed. For example, if someone is home heat-treating, I'd want to know what method they were using to know the temp (e.g. decalescence or losing magnetism isn't high enough for stainless, on the other hand, themocouples can lose calibration over time). I'd want to know the hardness was after quenching and again after tempering to ensure the heat treat was correctly performed. Poor performance after incorrect heat treatment will lead to some nasty rumors about the steel and possibly kill the knifemaking market for it before it even gets produced.
- Annealed and precision ground steel will be ideal for stock removal knifemakers. Depending on composition, stock removal might be a better test of a new steel than forging as there may be uncontrolled variables in the forging process.
- Ask for pictures of the knife when created, and maybe after damage (if any).
- When asking for feedback, most people type more slowly than they talk - you'll get a lot more specific and informative feedback if you have a telephone conversation with folk - how the knife was made, what modifications were performed post-heat treatment (you might be surprised at the variation - some folk heat treat after profiling the knife but before grinding, while others practically finish the knife before HT), how hard it was to work pre-HT, how hard it was to work post-HT, what the blade geometry was like (both overall shape and the grind itself hollow/convex/flat/chisel), and just what the tester did in the process of destroying the knife.
- Most importantly, consider carefully any negative feedback as tentative until confirmed in a controlled fashion. For example, there is some information out there that heat treating a knife for longer than necessary encourages grain growth - yet, in controlled testing, others find that heating at too high a temp encourages grain growth but heating at correct temp for longer does not. Another issue: Some people report that S30V chips easily, and others do NOT find that to be the case - not clear on the difference; it may be just how thinly the blade was ground, it may be heat treatment, it may be what the person's expectation are for the blade. So, when people give feedback, be careful to be understand both what they are saying and what expectations they have.
If you have any questions about what I mean by any of the above, please
PM me or e-mail tait.stevens@gmail.com.
(Suggestions and discourse encouraged...)
A couple of important points (pointed out above, but in different words)!
- Knowing the composition of the steel in advance will be helpful in deciding what kind of knife to make. Chromium content, for example, helps guide whether it can be a salt-water fillet knife or chef's knife.
- Different knifemakers give different attention to heat treatment - if the steel is complex enough to require special care in heat treating, it would be well worth getting detailed notes back from the knifemaker as to how the heat treating was performed. For example, if someone is home heat-treating, I'd want to know what method they were using to know the temp (e.g. decalescence or losing magnetism isn't high enough for stainless, on the other hand, themocouples can lose calibration over time). I'd want to know the hardness was after quenching and again after tempering to ensure the heat treat was correctly performed. Poor performance after incorrect heat treatment will lead to some nasty rumors about the steel and possibly kill the knifemaking market for it before it even gets produced.
- Annealed and precision ground steel will be ideal for stock removal knifemakers. Depending on composition, stock removal might be a better test of a new steel than forging as there may be uncontrolled variables in the forging process.
- Ask for pictures of the knife when created, and maybe after damage (if any).
- When asking for feedback, most people type more slowly than they talk - you'll get a lot more specific and informative feedback if you have a telephone conversation with folk - how the knife was made, what modifications were performed post-heat treatment (you might be surprised at the variation - some folk heat treat after profiling the knife but before grinding, while others practically finish the knife before HT), how hard it was to work pre-HT, how hard it was to work post-HT, what the blade geometry was like (both overall shape and the grind itself hollow/convex/flat/chisel), and just what the tester did in the process of destroying the knife.
- Most importantly, consider carefully any negative feedback as tentative until confirmed in a controlled fashion. For example, there is some information out there that heat treating a knife for longer than necessary encourages grain growth - yet, in controlled testing, others find that heating at too high a temp encourages grain growth but heating at correct temp for longer does not. Another issue: Some people report that S30V chips easily, and others do NOT find that to be the case - not clear on the difference; it may be just how thinly the blade was ground, it may be heat treatment, it may be what the person's expectation are for the blade. So, when people give feedback, be careful to be understand both what they are saying and what expectations they have.
If you have any questions about what I mean by any of the above, please
PM me or e-mail tait.stevens@gmail.com.
(Suggestions and discourse encouraged...)
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2008
- Messages
- 133
tait, very good insight.
I would also suggest maybe even asking for each individual to run 2 of the blade design they choose for the test, one to send back with detailed information about their process and one to completely finish out and test themselves, some information sent in with each blade would be what equipment was used to cut the steel, work the steel and take it to a near finished point, HT application and process, and all needed information for you guys to perform tests such as hardness levels and other resistance tests and be able to compare the different processes in which us knife makers partake in, this information will be invaluable, as others have said there are many ways to skin a cat... and if it can be done, a knife maker will be one to do it, needless to say we are VERY resourceful lol These blades need not be taken as far as the finished product, just worked the same exact way, I wouldn't think any type of finish work would be needed for these, just taken to a point where blade geometry would match the original design and make sure both are made using the same exact standards and process.
I would also suggest maybe even asking for each individual to run 2 of the blade design they choose for the test, one to send back with detailed information about their process and one to completely finish out and test themselves, some information sent in with each blade would be what equipment was used to cut the steel, work the steel and take it to a near finished point, HT application and process, and all needed information for you guys to perform tests such as hardness levels and other resistance tests and be able to compare the different processes in which us knife makers partake in, this information will be invaluable, as others have said there are many ways to skin a cat... and if it can be done, a knife maker will be one to do it, needless to say we are VERY resourceful lol These blades need not be taken as far as the finished product, just worked the same exact way, I wouldn't think any type of finish work would be needed for these, just taken to a point where blade geometry would match the original design and make sure both are made using the same exact standards and process.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2005
- Messages
- 4,527
My favorite thickness is 3/32" for neck knives to larger choppers so that would be my choice if you would have any of that size. It would be nice to see how tough it is in thinner stock, and to what experience to edge holding.