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A Phone Isn't A Map
- Thread starter Chignecto Woodsman
- Start date
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- Nov 22, 2009
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- 134
I just learned that several months ago. Very interesting. It will be good when they make a phone of reasonable expense that will switch to satellite when it can't get a cell signal, other than just an expensive satellite phone. They have started ignoring PLBs in the Grand Canyon National Park. One Ranger said the last 25 distress signals they got on PLBs there, only one was a legitimate emergency. So now they just ignore them and only proceed if they have two way communication as in cell phone.
This is an interesting topic and I hope it stays on topic. Reality is certainly different than anecdotal evidence and some of the advances made will be very helpful in true, remote wilderness and the crazy rugged terrain in some places. In real application I find a lot of it very useful including the newer and older technologies.
Yet without any inclination on why that personal preference is the better preference, and not just for him (me) but as a general rule across the board. The person with whom you responded (me) explained that why in this very thread. It is much more than just personally preferring one over the other.
But how does the twine direct you to the desired destination? Maybe it can look at my map sheet then lead me there.Pfffft, dang kids with their phones, maps, and compasses...
You're ALL doing it wrong. :grumpy:
What you really need is a huge ball of twine.
You just let it out as you go, then follow the trail of twine to get back out.
Land navigation is mostly a mental game. I hate seeing the skill atrophy across most of society.
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Stabman was clearly making a joke, but anyone who has watched the film Stalker will realise there is something to unorthodox methods.
everyone is fighting about nothing
guess what
a map is a map
a map app is also a map
say that ten times fast.
if you cant read a map then a map app will wont matter much in the woods.
though yes, google maps would help a very dumb person at least walk toward their destination, everyone knows its rarely that simple.
even with a laminated set of up to date topo maps you still have be able to figure the safest route.
guess what
a map is a map
a map app is also a map
say that ten times fast.
if you cant read a map then a map app will wont matter much in the woods.
though yes, google maps would help a very dumb person at least walk toward their destination, everyone knows its rarely that simple.
even with a laminated set of up to date topo maps you still have be able to figure the safest route.
You might be able to read a map sheet but not a map app.
Truthfully I can't even imagine trying to read across a 1:24000 topo sheet on a phone. I can simply look at a folded topo sheet for a few seconds stopped or even while moving and be on my way.
I was tagging along with a land surveyor a while back and he was using a panasonic toughpad for navigation and notes.
[video=youtube;VGL-KysVnTM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGL-KysVnTM[/video]
That thing was impressive. No paper map would come close to that thing for versatility. He had overlays that showed the topography for both land and water, satellite overview, property title records etc. Not to mention all the other paperwork he could store on the device. It was able to pinpoint our location and heading to within a few feet and the screen was BRIGHT. For actually measuring exact locations he had some sort of GPS staff thingy that was even more accurate.
Now a phone with a smaller screen and consumer grade software will not be as powerful but it is still worth having IMHO.
I'll have a look at Gaia GPS. Thanks mtwarden. :thumbup:
[video=youtube;VGL-KysVnTM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGL-KysVnTM[/video]
That thing was impressive. No paper map would come close to that thing for versatility. He had overlays that showed the topography for both land and water, satellite overview, property title records etc. Not to mention all the other paperwork he could store on the device. It was able to pinpoint our location and heading to within a few feet and the screen was BRIGHT. For actually measuring exact locations he had some sort of GPS staff thingy that was even more accurate.
Now a phone with a smaller screen and consumer grade software will not be as powerful but it is still worth having IMHO.
I'll have a look at Gaia GPS. Thanks mtwarden. :thumbup:
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I'm not taking that into the back country. No way. Maybe if it could fold once or twice.
Surveying within a few hundred yards of the truck is a different story. Just consider the rest of the equipment required to survey. Poles/rods, pegs, tripods/bipods, levels, transits, etc.
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You neglected to mention that the thing costs 2000 dollars. One can make multiple copies of a map or laminate one for ten dollars. If the canoe flips with ten dollars, oh well. With 2000 I think it'd be more than the canoe that does the flipping...
It looks like a very impressive tool though. Just the needs of surveying are very different from having to read a map. Most likely this computer cuts down on some of the paperwork, especially in the field, which is why it would be ideal.
The base argument remains the same. One of the definitions of a survival item is that 'when you need it you really need it.' This is the biggest problem with battery-based equipment, it is less-likely to be there when you really need it, may not function properly in adverse conditions (increasing the need), and the point-location technology can act as a barrier to learning travel in the woods. One should choose survival items based upon durability, endurance, and usefulness, but not sacrifice durability for usefulness. It is a difficult balance, however most advanced technologies fail in the durability and endurance department,
Another problem that has only been touched on is that in the near future there will likely be many more interruptions to technological equipment. Between hackers, fuel shortages, potential military interruptions, and solar flares the technology may not be there when you need it. We tend to think that things continually progress and that there is an infinite supply of energy, but in reality there are shortages and a simple crisis can wipe out whole electrical systems for weeks at a time.
I also hate the idea of not being able to turn off a device, so these things act as a tracking bracelet. Anyone could hack you, track you down and do what they want.
Yes, tinfoil hat joke time. But this is what they suspect happened to the girl in Europe who had all her gear stolen, someone tracked her from the online videos and got her ip address, went in and took the gear.
Even if some mock this line of thinking it is still relevant to the discussion. If the political, economic, and cultural climate changes the philosophy of woods travel may have to change quite quickly as well.
It looks like a very impressive tool though. Just the needs of surveying are very different from having to read a map. Most likely this computer cuts down on some of the paperwork, especially in the field, which is why it would be ideal.
The base argument remains the same. One of the definitions of a survival item is that 'when you need it you really need it.' This is the biggest problem with battery-based equipment, it is less-likely to be there when you really need it, may not function properly in adverse conditions (increasing the need), and the point-location technology can act as a barrier to learning travel in the woods. One should choose survival items based upon durability, endurance, and usefulness, but not sacrifice durability for usefulness. It is a difficult balance, however most advanced technologies fail in the durability and endurance department,
Another problem that has only been touched on is that in the near future there will likely be many more interruptions to technological equipment. Between hackers, fuel shortages, potential military interruptions, and solar flares the technology may not be there when you need it. We tend to think that things continually progress and that there is an infinite supply of energy, but in reality there are shortages and a simple crisis can wipe out whole electrical systems for weeks at a time.
I also hate the idea of not being able to turn off a device, so these things act as a tracking bracelet. Anyone could hack you, track you down and do what they want.
Yes, tinfoil hat joke time. But this is what they suspect happened to the girl in Europe who had all her gear stolen, someone tracked her from the online videos and got her ip address, went in and took the gear.
Even if some mock this line of thinking it is still relevant to the discussion. If the political, economic, and cultural climate changes the philosophy of woods travel may have to change quite quickly as well.
Price is always a consideration of course but on the other hand if you are doing things in many places you will end up sourcing a lot of maps. The pennies add up and matter how many paper maps you hoard you won't get EVERY map and ALL the details an electronic device can give you. Especially a connected device.
My point isn't that everyone should rush out to get toughpads. You don't have to pack in a toughpad leghog. But for those saying you can't get big, ergonomic, professional tools. Yes you can. :There are some things that an electronic device can do for you in a wilderness setting that no paper map will ever do.
Professional tech also inevitably trickles down to consumer tech. You can do a lot with a smartphone, phablet or tablet.
I agree that making use of modern tools opens the door for modern surveillance. It is what it is, tinfoil doesn't come into it, privacy has been dead for a while now.
As for the changing economic and political climate stuff... You will either stay or go. If you stay you probably don't need a map and if you go you will need a boatload of maps to adjust to your new transient refugee status. The current "refugees" flooding Europe use google maps.
My point isn't that everyone should rush out to get toughpads. You don't have to pack in a toughpad leghog. But for those saying you can't get big, ergonomic, professional tools. Yes you can. :There are some things that an electronic device can do for you in a wilderness setting that no paper map will ever do.
Professional tech also inevitably trickles down to consumer tech. You can do a lot with a smartphone, phablet or tablet.
I agree that making use of modern tools opens the door for modern surveillance. It is what it is, tinfoil doesn't come into it, privacy has been dead for a while now.
As for the changing economic and political climate stuff... You will either stay or go. If you stay you probably don't need a map and if you go you will need a boatload of maps to adjust to your new transient refugee status. The current "refugees" flooding Europe use google maps.
$2000 will buy a whole lot of topo sheet! Heck, you could buy a plotter and plotter paper and print any map you'll want or need.
In the original context of this post wouldn't being tracked down be a good thing?
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I remember reading somewhere that you can find the way out of a maze by having the same hand touching the wall at all times.
I don't think anyone is saying a phone will replace a topo map. It's just handy to have. The topo map for my area is from 1970 something. Lots of roads and trails missing. Lots of logging roads not marked. If there's cell service you can get a fairly recent satellite view of where you are. Has come in handy a few times following game trails. It's not a replacement for a compass and Map but a good piece of gear. My Sony Z1 or 2 I forget is water proof has all of North American city maps. Lots of topo maps. All already downloaded. I can use them anywhere no cell or data reception needed.
Within a minute or two I was able to find free maps of that area with 1998 topographic data. There may well be topo sheets available with newer data but I have no reason to look for it.
http://www.canmaps.com/topographic/bc/
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