A Question for NYC LEOs....

M

Michael Bolton

Joined
Feb 10, 2008
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I am confused, I know that this is a popular discussion in the forums, but it would be interesting to hear the LEO's perspective...

Are all Spydercos basically illegal to carry as an EDC in NYC because they are able to be opened by gripping the blade and flipping the handle out into the lock-open position? If so, is it better to simply carry a totally concealed-out-of-sight under 4" sheathed fixed-blade?

I know that you can be arrested if you wear a Spyderco with the clip showing (as with any knife that is visible), so I never ever ever wear my Spydie out, I always have it buried in my pocket. I am confused because you can go down to Union Square and buy any number of in-production Spydercos, including the Chinook, at Paragon Sports. Clearly these folders are pocket knives....

I would also never say that I carry a knife solely for the purpose of self-defense, as it would then make the knife a "weapon". I actually carry my EDCs because I use them every single day in my studio and office. Plus, as a designer, I absolutely love the designs of my EDCs and love the Spyderco philosophy and ethic.

I am sure all Spydie fans (EXCEPT THE DEACON) that live and travel through NYC would find a LEO's take on this very informative....
 
However, I am a LEO with responsibilities in NYC. As such, I hope my opinion will be of assistance. In the performance of our duties the person carrying the knife is far more important than the knife itself. If the appearance, demeanor, activity, etc. of an individual gives me cause for concern or to engage in an investigative stop I will be far more interested in any blades the person may be carrying. OTOH, if I am in your office and your letter opener is a Spydie I am not nearly as interested. If, as you say, your Spydie is concealed within your pocket, what are you doing to cause a police officer to contact you to begin with?

Now for the grey area: Under NYC's infamous "drop-open gravity knife rule" almost any Spydie folder will fail the test, and the officer may have cause to effect an arrest. Totally up to the individual officer. The arrest is legit even if a judge later throws it out. Many of our judges would uphold the bust though.

Fixed blades: I almost always recommend against fixed blade carry in an urban environment. Even if it is within the law, it is outside the norm and as such will always draw the attention of the vigilant peace officer. Any good officer is not looking for crime per se. Their radar is tuned to "What isn't right with this picture." In closing, the choice is ultimately yours. Even when within the law, is the extra scrutiny worth it?

Hopefully we have some NYPD folks here who will also chime in.
 
Michael, forgive me, but I think it is grossly unfair to Spyderco to single out their product for this crap. New York City's ridiculous interpretation of the State law concerning gravity knives would apply equally to amost every locking folder produced by Benchmade, Boker, Buck, Chris Reeves, Columbia River, Kershaw, etc.
 
Thanks Eyegor! I was just saying in theory, I have never broken a law nor do I plan on it! I hope that the only thing drawing any attention to me is my nerd-factor. thanks again for the information!
 
Dan Barnes said:
Michael, forgive me, but I think it is grossly unfair to Spyderco to single out their product for this crap. New York City's ridiculous interpretation of the State law concerning gravity knives would apply equally to amost every locking folder produced by Benchmade, Boker, Buck, Chris Reeves, Columbia River, Kershaw, etc.
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I don't mean to single out Spyderco, it's just that Spyderco is the only knife with which I am familiar (I am a big fan), and it's a discussion surrounding Spyderco folders with Spyderco fans in the NYC area. Since this question applies to so many other knives please do open up the discussion to any knife that has this 'grab-a-knife-by-the-blade-flick-open' ability..including all of the makers you listed above.
 
In a SD situation, would a Spyderco (or any grey-area-gravity-folding-knife) be a huge no-no? I am just asking out of curiosity (and to be better educated)..I don't plan on being in this situation, nor am I ever in an area when I feel threatened....I have a few years of martial arts training and the number one thing I know to do if ever threatened is to run like the wind! I guess I am thinking that if I am with a loved one who can't run, or can't run as fast as I can...I would want to protect them or at least allow them an opportunity to reach safety..

I'm not really talking about anything super NKP-friendly (sheathed blade, folder with a blade barely under 4 inches...), more in the Lava/Yojimbo area....something that actually, and really is a pocket EDC knife...
 
i can grab any blade i have and flick it open by "throwing" it....except my buck rush because it locks closed, but its an assisted open....well and my crkt rollock, but i never carry it.....i would rather have a spyderco on me than this knife....i mean a buck 110 can be opened in this manner with a little practice
 
screw NYC and all of their B.S. talk about civil liberties being violated. Carry whatever you want however you want, then when you are unlawfully stopeed, hire teh best laywer you can and sue the cr*p out the police and the state. just my .02
 
spidyman said:
screw NYC and all of their B.S. talk about civil liberties being violated. Carry whatever you want however you want, then when you are unlawfully stopeed, hire teh best laywer you can and sue the cr*p out the police and the state. just my .02
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I'm sorry my friend, but I love NYC. So I'm not about to "screw NYC".

I think your comment has more to do with a non-New Yorker's perspective on politicians/politics/legislation which is not appropriate or relevant to this thread, and that is not what this question is about. This question is a legitimate inquiry as to the repercussions, if any, of Spyderco (or any grey-area-folder) folders in NYC.

I'm sorry but I think your 2 cents will need to be refunded.
 
Jenner 515 said:
Oh yeah? What about Michael Bolton's Soul Provider album...that was criminal.
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Ouch!! Ok, I did serve eight weeks behind bars for that one, but I paid a hefty fine and did 800 hours of community service at the local homeless shelter so my debt to society has been paid back in full!
 
well if yo love it THAT much then why in the F' are you complaing then, move on live your sheeple life and leave the rest of us alone. You can keep the .02 and this .02 as well, lets just call it donation to a politically defunct sheep in need!

Hey at least in my state io don't have the gov. banging every woman that he sees, and then pays them outrageous fees with TAXPAYER money!!!!

If your looking for an answer go down to your local police precints and ask them the APPROVED list of Knives I'm sure they will be more than helpful in helping you select a legal option.

FWIW just get a spyderco in FRN and tighten it up so that it requires 2 hands to open and can not be opend through inertia. Hold it by the blade and snap it open a few times, tighten it up untill it can not be opend in this maner, NOW you are LEGAL!!!!!!
 
Don't leave your knife clipped to your pocket, just unnecessary advertisement in the big cities.
 
spidyman said:
well if yo love it THAT much then why in the F' are you complaing then, move on live your sheeple life and leave the rest of us alone. You can keep the .02 and this .02 as well, lets just call it donation to a politically defunct sheep in need!

Hey at least in my state io don't have the gov. banging every woman that he sees, and then pays them outrageous fees with TAXPAYER money!!!!

NOW you are LEGAL!!!!!!
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Was I complaining? I am simply making an inquiry.

Thanks Spidyman, you are right. I am moving tonight! Your comments in the thread titled 'A Question for NYC LEOs' have been incredibly informative, thoughtful, articulate, and insightful and we all appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Your political analysis is flawless. Thanks again and I look forward to reading more of your comments in other threads. Hopefully they will actually pertain, in some way, to the subject of that thread. What does Eliot Spitzer have to do with anything? How does insulting me and where I live help to spread useful information to people who respect Spyderco and want to utilize the tools they make in a responsible informed manner?

Where do you live? Shall I make a jab at a politician from your state? Does that have anything to do with anything in a thread titled "A Question for NYC LEOs?"

It really is amazing that you even bother to go into a thread to simply write angry, rambling, nonsensical, off-topic comments that have nothing to do with the thread...are you just an angry guy? You're not painting a very flattering or respectful picture of yourself here. That's a rhetorical question, don't actually want to hear nor care for a response. In fact, I can't believe that I am even responding to your comment.
 
I agree, if you are truly worried about the law I recommend carrying a UKPK or Urban.
 
i'm state, but i do a lot of business in NYC.

no simple answer here. there's no -definitive- yes or no. a lot is left up to the discretion of the arresting officer.

-if the clip is showing it's -enough- to stop you if the officer is so inclined.
-yes, most Spydies fit the -letter- of the law.
-would you be charged, just for the knife? probably not.
-what it does do is give you another easy charge if you were committing another crime/infraction/etc.

now, beyond that, i'll say that when i was in town for the NYC Knife Show, i kept my clips out of sight. why? i didn't feel like getting hassled on vacation. even with the badge, i didn't feel like having my time wasted if someone decided to be overzealous.
 
Michael Bolton said:
I am sure all Spydie fans that live and travel through NYC would find a LEO's take on this very informative....
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This one wouldn't.

Not because of any disrespect for the opinions of NYPD an NYTP officers, but because he's intelligent enough to know that the opinion of one member of a group of over 35,000 is no guarantee of anything. In fact, it does not even guarantee that, if the cop who was patting you down was the same one who responded, that some event would not have changed his opinion. Also, because he finds it difficult to believe that any NYC cop would spot a knife carried in the buttoned back pocket of a 62 year old man's trousers, or consider it a weapon if they did.

You have chosen to live and/or work in the most weapon averse city in the United States, perhaps in the world. You post statements that make it obvious you want a knife suitable for use as a weapon. That would be fine, except that you want someone to tell you that a knife exists that will fulfill that role and yet carry an ironclad guarantee of immunity from prosecution issued by either the manufacturer or some member of NYPD. That, is a tad unrealistic.

Paul
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Michael Bolton said:
I don't mean to single out Spyderco, it's just that Spyderco is the only knife with which I am familiar (I am a big fan), and it's a discussion surrounding Spyderco folders with Spyderco fans in the NYC area. Since this question applies to so many other knives please do open up the discussion to any knife that has this 'grab-a-knife-by-the-blade-flick-open' ability..including all of the makers you listed above.
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From recent posts, it does seem that any knife which locks open, and that can be flicked open - in any manner - is an illegal carry in New York City.

(wtf, but so it is.)

So when I travel to NYC, which is not far from my home, I make sure to carry a knife (or two ;)) that simply cannot be flicked open.

A couple are the Emerson Hardwear Traveler (fully serrated is wicked sharp) and the Case Mid-Folding Hunter.
 
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