A Question for NYC LEOs....

The Deacon said:
This one wouldn't.

Not because of any disrespect for the opinions of NYPD an NYTP officers, but because he's intelligent enough to know that the opinion of one member of a group of over 35,000 is no guarantee of anything. In fact, it does not even guarantee that, if the cop who was patting you down was the same one who responded, that some event would not have changed his opinion. Also, because he finds it difficult to believe that any NYC cop would spot a knife carried in the buttoned back pocket of a 62 year old man's trousers, or consider it a weapon if they did.

You have chosen to live and/or work in the most weapon averse city in the United States, perhaps in the world. You post statements that make it obvious you want a knife suitable for use as a weapon. That would be fine, except that you want someone to tell you that a knife exists that will fulfill that role and yet carry an ironclad guarantee of immunity from prosecution issued by either the manufacturer or some member of NYPD. That, is a tad unrealistic.

Paul
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My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam
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Sorry Paul but you're interpretation is 100% wrong and totally off, about as helpful as Spydiman's post. I am not looking for a weapon. I am just looking for information. I am just trying to establish what is safe and reasonable and least likely to cause any hassle. I have my two favorite EDCs and trying to clarify if they can potentially cause me any unnecessary grief.

I'm not sure what your deal is but I have seen you interpret people who are trying to be informed as 'risk takers', 'living on the edge', and 'looking for weapons' people. I would stop assuming such things anytime anyone is just looking to be an informed and responsible knife person. I can vouch for a number of people on these forums that that attitude has grown tiresome and doesn't add to the discussion.
 
carrot said:
I agree, if you are truly worried about the law I recommend carrying a UKPK or Urban.
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Yes, I think that I am in the market for a UKPK and an Urban once it comes out. I love Spyderco but definitely would prefer and option that is "safe"-er.

And let me be clear so no one thinks that I am looking for a "legal" weapon. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A WEAPON!!!!!!!!!!

I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A WEAPON!!!!!!!!!!

I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A WEAPON!!!!!!!!!!
 
Michael Bolton said:
Yes, I think that I am in the market for a UKPK and an Urban once it comes out. I love Spyderco but definitely would prefer and option that is "safe"-er.

And let me be clear so no one thinks that I am looking for a "legal" weapon. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A WEAPON!!!!!!!!!!

I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A WEAPON!!!!!!!!!!

I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A WEAPON!!!!!!!!!!
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I dont look at my edc as a weapon but as a tool..
 
Michael,

I am not an LEO but I live in NYC. The unfortunate reality is that yes, your Yojimbo is considered an illegal weapon, irregardless of your intent since it can be flicked open. So yes, you are a criminal by carrying this knife out into the street and if a cop ever frisked you, you could have a serious problem on your hands. Your knife could be confiscated and very likely you could be arrested. People are being arrested for carrying "gravity" knives in NYC so this is not hysteria mongering. I am not accusing you of being a criminal just letting you know that is how things stand in our city today.

Looking at NYS law, it is also illegal to have any knife whose purpose is to "stab another" so any knife designed OR carried for self defense is illegal. My understanding is that any blade that locks when opened is also illegal. I considered the UKPK but decided against it because I know that NYPD would try to pull a "haha I got you" by trying to flick the knife open. Even if they couldn't do it (flick it open) they could seize the knife anyway and maybe arrest me until it gets sorted out. It's just not worth the hassle, so I carry no knife whatsoever on me. It is unlikely that I (or you) will be stop frisked any time soon, but I just don't want to worry about it. I also have a clean record and I want to keep it that way. I intend to move so I am not going to get too bent out of shape over it. This is just one of the prices you pay for living in this city.

If you are determined to carry a knife, I would suggest a slipjoint folder which cannot be flicked open, whose blade length is around 2" or less. In other words, a knife that almost nobody in their right mind would consider a weapon and which clearly qualifies as a common pocket knife. It might also be a good idea to go to a lawyer who handles weapons cases and run this past them. You might even get to see them via a free initial consultation. They could also give you tips on how to interact with law enforcement and what to say if you are arrested.
 
What LEO is going to stop Michael Bolton? Not me. The funny thing is, I can't tell you how times I have searched a "bad guy" and found a knife. When I ask them why they are carrying a knife, they would tell me it was for self defense. Here's a recommendation, always say; "I use it on my job (for boxes, etc.)". I'd recommend carrying it in your pocket of IWB when wearing a coat, vest, or baggy shirt. About half of us are knife geeks. Most Officers know a Benchmade or Spyderco. Many of us will even ask how you like that particular model Spyderco.

I love NYC. Born and raised in New Jersey. I worked in NYC before relocating in the West. For all it's quarks, there is no city like it in the world. You know they keep trying to destroy this city. What they don't understand about easterners is the more you fly planes into our buildings and threaten us, the more we come after you and your box cutters and say "lets roll".

Michael, I carry a Spyderco everyday because I've never had one let me down. You can always carry the D'Allara and go into that story. Be careful, that story hits most of us pretty hard. I'd suggest you follow your conscious about which knife you have confidence in and carry that. No guarantees, but I'm sure you'll be just fine.

Best Wishes and be safe
And "good luck with that music thing ya got going there" in my best NYC accent.
 
Michael Bolton said:
Sorry Paul but you're interpretation is 100% wrong and totally off, about as helpful as Spydiman's post. I am not looking for a weapon. I am just looking for information. I am just trying to establish what is safe and reasonable and least likely to cause any hassle. I have my two favorite EDCs and trying to clarify if they can potentially cause me any unnecessary grief.

I'm not sure what your deal is but I have seen you interpret people who are trying to be informed as 'risk takers', 'living on the edge', and 'looking for weapons' people. I would stop assuming such things anytime anyone is just looking to be an informed and responsible knife person. I can vouch for a number of people on these forums that that attitude has grown tiresome and doesn't add to the discussion.
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Either you are lying to yourself Michael, or there are two different people using "Michael Bolton" as a forum name. One prime example, this Are the UKPK or upcoming Urban effective SD options? thread "Michael Bolton" posted on the Spyderco Factory forum.

As for the rest, you are entitled to your opinion of me, as I am to mine of you.

Paul
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My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam
 
Thanks, The Deacon, for the sage-like advice and astute commentary. I particularly enjoy the 'nah-nah-nah' quality of your comments. You may have an impressive collection of knives and be into purchasing every single knife a company puts out, regardless of design and whether or not you actually like it, but that unto itself is hardly impressive. In any event, thanks for reminding everyone that reads this forum that you are allowed to have an opinion. That was helpful. I will keep that in mind.

One very relevant question I have is, how in the world can you form a cohesive opinion about someone through a few postings on a knife-related forum? :jerkit:

Um, I don't know about you, but I would HAPPILY give away all my Spydercos if I were unable to pursue those things which I am actually truly and passionately interested in. At this particular moment I would like to be an informed knife person because I actually use a knife in my day to day.

I think that's a poignant difference between us, I am just trying to learn and remain open, and you're taking a tired, worn out stance of the 'old man' who can look down from above and 'be entitled to your opinion' and probably spends a lot of time taking pictures of your knives and writing about your knives etc etc...I take it all back if you actually work in the knife-design industry. But if not..well..
 
Do what I did last year, develop early onset arthritis and walk with a cane, who would question a stout cane? I purchased it in Britain last year while traveling and it was x-rayed many times but never taken from me. I did take an official Boy Scout knife with me (not carry on) but if I had thought to use it for self defense I would have used the can opener like a hawkbill, leaves painful, devastating gashes.
 
Lets talk about imminent jeopardy (Intent, Means, Opportunity, and preclusion). The standard is if you are in a situation where you are in fear of death or serious bodily injury for yourself or someone else you have established an imminent situation. We use our knives as "tools" in our daily life/work. Sometimes even a tool like a shovel has to be used in an emergent situation.

I believe Michael has two points: 1) He loves and trusts Spydercos and uses them in his daily life, 2) He is concerned about the liability of carrying a Spyderco in NYC and wants a LEO perspective.

As a retired LEO (retired medically in July 2007-sorry for the appeal to authority but it was requested), I advise you to carry your Spyderco with a strong lock system (ref Dr. Snubnose). Always carry quality. I am a Scoutmaster and teach my boys to carry and use their knives. Michael, let me be your Scoutmaster for a minute. Every time I leave my knife at home, someone asks me for it. It's part of what I am (Be Prepared for whatever) and people rely on that. If someone asks you why you carry a knife, tell them your Scoutmaster taught you to always carry a knife to help other people who don't.
 
An aside: Someone mentioned this and here are my thoughts.

For the former Governor of NYC, my prayers are for him and his family.
 
Thanks dragonram7 and everyone that has posted a relevant and informative comment. It's very much appreciated. Like a previous commenter had posted, I carry a Spyderco because like all of the things that I try to spend my money on and rely on on a daily basis, quality, design, and philosophy are of great importance. It is a shame that this city has incredibly strict laws concerning knives, but in an urban environment with millions of citizens from all walks of life, that is inevitable.I will most certianly be looking into an urban and ukpk. Like always, I will remain discreet and am not in the market to broadcast my affinity to this brand in public. That being said, thanks again for the information.
 
I don't generally understand the purpose of this law... I know that if for some reason my knife had to be used as a weapon I wouldn't try and look cool and fancy.
 
Someone needs to make a knife with an interlock that prevents it from fully opening unless interlock is defeated when flicked (and not be able to flick open when simply yanking the interlock alone i.e. AXIS lock:pull back and flick-->undesirable consequence of the design)
 
Michael Bolton said:
Thanks, The Deacon, for the sage-like advice and astute commentary. I particularly enjoy the 'nah-nah-nah' quality of your comments. You may have an impressive collection of knives and be into purchasing every single knife a company puts out, regardless of design and whether or not you actually like it, but that unto itself is hardly impressive. In any event, thanks for reminding everyone that reads this forum that you are allowed to have an opinion. That was helpful. I will keep that in mind.

One very relevant question I have is, how in the world can you form a cohesive opinion about someone through a few postings on a knife-related forum? :jerkit:

Um, I don't know about you, but I would HAPPILY give away all my Spydercos if I were unable to pursue those things which I am actually truly and passionately interested in. At this particular moment I would like to be an informed knife person because I actually use a knife in my day to day.

I think that's a poignant difference between us, I am just trying to learn and remain open, and you're taking a tired, worn out stance of the 'old man' who can look down from above and 'be entitled to your opinion' and probably spends a lot of time taking pictures of your knives and writing about your knives etc etc...I take it all back if you actually work in the knife-design industry. But if not..well..
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would you give up your balls too; OH wait you already have!

(( Your language is unacceptable. ))
 
Michael Bolton

I see you're kind of new here so welcome. Your post might get better answers in the knife laws forum though.

I suspect that most Spydercos are illegal. I don't have a single Spyderco that can't be opened by holding the blade and dropping it but the UK Pen knife doesn't lock so it might be legal.

A Federal judge did issue a ruling contrary to the gravity knife definition but I don't know how that will affect anything in the near term. (There's a thread under Knife Laws.)

Spidyman,

I know you don't have many posts here but this should be a civil discussion. I don't think any of us think the law is reasonable but that's not a reason go after the poster.
 
I wouldn't go out of my way to make the point on the street, but I wonder what these people would make of a Texas Toothpick with a 3.75" blade? Slipjoint, no lock, two-hand opener, legal blade length, resting out of sight in the bottom of my pocket ... and an obviously dangerous item.

The problem is that the law is not what it purports to be. It is part of a larger mindset that has finally managed to criminalize the very concept of self-defense.

Instead of trying to figure out how to explain or convince or lawyer up, we have to realize that New York City has been lost to our kind of civilization. Take a small Swiss Army Knife for ordinary carry. If you're playing tourist, take nothing.
 
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