A radical theory, and leaving the world of expensive modern knives behind

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Chopaholic said:
There is little tangible performance difference between a 400 series knife that could have been purchased during the great depression and one made of any steel invented since. Design and the skill of the sharpener constitute 99% of it. All other factors being equal, you'd have to be a professional who uses knives every day like me to even notice any difference between a knife made of CPM3V and a >$50 knife from one of the major manufacturers of western kitchen and meat processing cutlery. Most knife enthusiasts are so ignorant of and terrible at sharpening that there is no possible way the steel selection in their knives could make any difference in performance whatsoever. Perfect example, I went to thanksgiving with a guy who is an avid chef, and was bragging about $300 Japanese damascus knives he had and how well they perform. I handled them, and the factory edges were distant memories, couldn't even slice paper. I asked him if he owned any water stones, and he didn't know what I was talking about. This kind of abysmal cluelessness about edges and sharpening is typical of nearly every single person I have ever met who was interested in knives, and that is one reason why I chuckle at the notion of some kind of revolution in blade steels. A piece of mild steel from Home Depot in my hands is better than any knife ever made in the hands of the average blade guy out there.
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You’re gonna tear a rotator cuff patting yourself on the back. Painful injury.......so maybe you should stop.
 
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Chopaholic said:
Most knife enthusiasts are so ignorant of and terrible at sharpening that there is no possible way the steel selection in their knives could make any difference in performance whatsoever.
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Again, than goodness you showed up to set us ignoramuses straight!
 
Reitwagen said:
Why?
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To prove that it can be done. I used the blade as a chisel, gently hitting the spine with a baton, to fell the tree. Then I carved some wedges and used them with the baton to split the entire tree into quarters. Then I chiseled the quarters just enough so that finished firewood sections could just be snapped off. The knife, an old Kershaw, don't even remember what model, was a little loose after but didn't break.

The technique is much more efficient with a broader and longer blade, like one of the Old Hickories. With practice, a broad, thin blade used this way can process wood almost as fast as a chopping knife that weighs more than twice as much.
 
I read the first page of this thread and wondered why anyone would bother trying to argue against the author's misunderstandings and misinterpretations of anything knife related. So I stopped reading. I mean, WHY BOTHER??

Don't bother replying to me because I will never see this thread again. Enjoy.
 
I will have to disagree just a little I much prefer my Japanese kitchen knives in everything from blue or white steel to the exotic tool and super steels. I like their geometry much better than western knives for their cutting ability, and I do have an assortment of Chosera and Shapton water stones.
 
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marcinek said:
Again, than goodness you showed up to set us ignoramuses straight!
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I've literally met maybe 2 people in real life who had ever sharpened anything, and I grew up in the country. At most, I'd occasionally see a cheap pull-through sharpener among the kit of one of my dad's hunting buddies. Sharpening is a lost art. Probably because modern knives are too thick to sharpen.
 
jceckrosh said:
Yes, but any number of knives, new or old, would have done the same. Although I am not sure what side of the argument you are arguing, if any.

On the flip side of the argument, I have used a thick spined modern knife to cut a bully stick in half, which I am sure would have ruined my chef knife.
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Nothing to argue about. I use many knives for different purposes. Just that one is good for kitchen preparation.
 
91bravo said:
My family has been batoning firewood before anyone even knew what batoning was. Superior is just your opinion. I bet I could harvest more firewood and build a fire faster and bigger than yours. I'll only use a knife and folding saw. And I bet my white lightning is stronger than yours...
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Maybe you could, but I wouldn't need the folding saw or a heavy, specialized shingling froe disguised as a knife. Just a tomahawk and a general purpose fixed blade that combined weigh 26 oz and cost $35.
 
betzner said:
I read the first page of this thread and wondered why anyone would bother trying to argue against the author's misunderstandings and misinterpretations of anything knife related. So I stopped reading. I mean, WHY BOTHER??

Don't bother replying to me because I will never see this thread again. Enjoy.
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Hence "radical".
 
Chopaholic said:
I'm just sick of knives that are stupidly designed and overpriced, which is like 90% of everything on Knifecenter, Amazon, etc I've accumulated over the years. Dead weight, completely inappropriate geometry, insulting factory edges, lack of basic features, I'm done with all of it. The old designs are better. I'm not some poor person taking a "sour grapes" attitude towards things I can't afford, I'm someone who's had it all and am just disillusioned by years of bad performance and nerve-wracking marathons at the bench stone. The cheap, simple, timeless knives I've been using at work this whole time were the holy grail all along.
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Excellent. Quit buying terrible knives you hate, and stick to what you like best. The problem you are encountering is expecting everyone to co-sign and not getting it. Or whatever you were expecting to get and not getting it.

Chopaholic said:
There is little tangible performance difference between a 400 series knife that could have been purchased during the great depression and one made of any steel invented since. Design and the skill of the sharpener constitute 99% of it. All other factors being equal, you'd have to be a professional who uses knives every day like me to even notice any difference between a knife made of CPM3V and a >$50 knife from one of the major manufacturers of western kitchen and meat processing cutlery. Most knife enthusiasts are so ignorant of and terrible at sharpening that there is no possible way the steel selection in their knives could make any difference in performance whatsoever. Perfect example, I went to thanksgiving with a guy who is an avid chef, and was bragging about $300 Japanese damascus knives he had and how well they perform. I handled them, and the factory edges were distant memories, couldn't even slice paper. I asked him if he owned any water stones, and he didn't know what I was talking about. This kind of abysmal cluelessness about edges and sharpening is typical of nearly every single person I have ever met who was interested in knives, and that is one reason why I chuckle at the notion of some kind of revolution in blade steels. A piece of mild steel from Home Depot in my hands is better than any knife ever made in the hands of the average blade guy out there.
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In response to the bold part: He might just be an idiot. "Avid chef" means nothing. Professional paid chef who works in a professional kitchen means more, but even that can mean very little.

In response to the bold/underlined part: Wow.
 
marcinek said:
Even more proof! We are interested in knives, hence we are abysmally clueless about sharpening compared to you.

I wish you would have tuned up sooner! Think of the time we have wasted!
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Even among fellow butchers, they look at me like I have two heads when I start talking about "grits", bevels", "stropping", and so forth. There aren't very many people out there who know anything about sharpening. There are very many people out there who have closets full of dull knives that they think are cool.
 
91bravo said:
So it's a bet then with your axe/knife and my saw/knife? Document it on video...I'll do the same.
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How about no, since I conceded that you very well may be faster. I just don't care because I am more concerned with overall practicality and versatility, among other things, in a wilderness kit, not just speed. A saw can only do one thing and is a royal pain the ass to sharpen; I've never been a big fan of them.
 
In the old days, my grandfather used a type of hatchet like in the below picture, for light and medium wood cutting stuff. Plenty of heft for splitting wood without even using a baton. But, it was a work tool, and the heft of it would not make it suited for backpacking...
461372242_1-antiek-ijzeren-kapmes-hakbijl.jpg

Carrying a strong but lighter fixed blade, and using a disposable stick to add heft seems a viable solution to me.
 
jceckrosh said:
Excellent. Quit buying terrible knives you hate, and stick to what you like best. The problem you are encountering is expecting everyone to co-sign and not getting it. Or whatever you were expecting to get and not getting it.


In response to the bold part: He might just be an idiot. "Avid chef" means nothing. Professional paid chef who works in a professional kitchen means more, but even that can mean very little.

In response to the bold/underlined part: Wow.
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The thanksgiving fellow was an example to demonstrate a characteristic I have observed in nearly everyone I've ever met who had any interest in edged tools. It's like they're missing a part of their brain that allows us to comprehend sharpness. A skillfully sharpened piece of mild steel can cut quite well, as I know from experience. A $3000 custom knife that has lost it's factory edge and hasn't been resharpened is useless. The vast majority of the cutting performance of any knife is in the sharpening job.
 
microbe said:
In the old days, my grandfather used a type of hatchet like in the below picture, for light and medium wood cutting stuff. Plenty of heft for splitting wood without even using a baton. But, it was a work tool, and the heft of it would not make it suited for backpacking...
461372242_1-antiek-ijzeren-kapmes-hakbijl.jpg

Carrying a strong but lighter fixed blade, and using a disposable stick to add heft seems a viable solution to me.
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There are some interesting "woods cleavers" from Italian companies like that on Baryonyx I want to check out.
 
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