A rising problem?

[BladefulArt]

I have been noticing lately that more and more people are considering knives as weapons even though the majority of them are designed to be used as tools. Is their any way to persuade and educate people what their purpose is without them just saying, "your wrong." (or losing trust of you)

Its getting to a point where even hunters consider them as weapons now, which I find quiet sad. If this continues, how badly will it effect the knife industry and its community?

I am completely aware that many street attacks envolve knives, but wouldn't a required program in school's about knife education and their proper use solve some of these growing problems? (Since everybody will use a knife some time during their life) Or is school part of the problem as well?

(After all, in my school, nearly all knife related sites are blocked saying "This site is characterized as "violence/weapons, even though some of them dont have any violence related material or any knives designed as weapons at all)

Because of this growing problem, I plan on joining KnifeRights as soon as possible, appears to be about our only hope now because of people getting filled with ignorance.

Any ideas on how to persuade people of what knives are actually for would be highly appreciated. I'm sick of people referring to me as a "maker of dangerous objects used to stab people."

 

[johnny reb]

Your right, I carry a knife as a tool, and a gun as a weapon(hunting tool?), But so many sheeple are afraid of big "hunting knives", Maybe too much T.V. Most kitchen knives are more intimidating.

 

[rifon2]

KnifeRights, in my view, is not as effective an approach as the AKTI approach which promotes the carry and use of knives of as tools.
I think the name "KnifeRights" is a little too aggressive.

Look, for instance, at thhe NRA.
It's been effective, thankfully.
I'm not sure if it would have been as effective had it been called "GunRights".

In the meantime, I've been buying, carrying, and enjoying really good slipjoint knives.
My tacticals are safely put away, for a time when I hope they'll be acceptable once again. Or until I move someplace where they're acceptable & unquestionably legal.

 

[enderwiggin]

It depends where you are, too. Honestly, if people get to know you for a length of time, don't see you as a threat and then happen to find out you have and like knives as tools, they're generally somewhat accepting as long as they see you using them only as tools.

Obviously there are places this doesn't apply, like in office settings or some big cities.

it seems that people are more likely to jump to conclusions if they know nothing about you, and suddenly you whip out a large knife--even if it's for a perfectly justified tool use.

 

[orthogonal1]

"What we have here is a success of communication", to bastardize a movie.

The "hoplophobes" (or whatever you want to call these people) are succeeding very well at instilling the thought process wherein knives are weapons. The school computer block is a good example.

It is a problem in the United States that we have allowed hoplophobes to dictate what is taught in the schools, since initially learning wrong is easy, but relearning right is hard and many times impossible to accomplish.

We have a generation wherein a large percentage really don't fathom the idea of carrying a knife for any other purpose than as a weapon thanks to the early shool based indoctrination..

The same goes with guns and any of the "martial" arts (marksmanship, swordmanship, boxing, etc).

 

[yoopernauts™]

If only every state had Arizona's gun carry laws...well, maybe it's not such a good idea.

I think a lot really depends on which area of a state you live in. If you live in the city, suburbs, or even a small town then you will doubtless be adjudicated suspicious if you clean your fingernails with an Arkansas toothpick.

But if you live a few miles outside of Hooterville, or in Cornfield County, USA I think you'd fit right in with the local character. Tourists would want to take a photo of you picking your teeth with a rusty Bowie.

 

[allenC]

I have been noticing lately that more and more people are considering knives as weapons even though the majority of them are designed to be used as tools. Is their any way to persuade and educate people what their purpose is without them just saying, "your wrong." (or losing trust of you)

It's not that simple....
If someone looks upon my knife as a weapon, I can't tell them that they are wrong....after all, I have used my knife as a weapon before and may do so again if need be.
In my opinion, a knife is both a tool and a weapon.
To ignore this duality is to be dishonest with oneself, and to whomever you are trying to sway.

 

[artmichalek]

It's not that simple....
If someone looks upon my knife as a weapon, I can't tell them that they are wrong....after all, I have used my knife as a weapon before and may do so again if need be.
In my opinion, a knife is both a tool and a weapon.
To ignore this duality is to be dishonest with oneself, and to whomever you are trying to sway.

But that duality is not exclusive to knives. I have a coffee mug and several drafting pencils on my desk that I could probably use more effectively as weapons than my pocket knife. Unfortunately, that line of reasoning (If I wanted to hurt you, I wouldn't need a knife) doesn't do much to calm the irrational. For some reason I think it would make them think me less sane. Rather, I'll continue to use my mug solely for drinking coffee and maybe occasionally tea, I'll continue to use my knife exclusively for performing small cutting tasks, I'll continue to cling to the ideal that there are still adults who act like adults, and I'll continue to ignore people who expect adults to act otherwise.

 

[FLYBYU44]

90% or our currrent population are extremely stupid people. They've never left the city, they have 0 survival skills and when the sh#t hits the fan they will be totally clueless on how to save themselves. I plan to teach my kid a lot of things when he gets older that perhapes most people won't teach their kid these days. My Dad taught me them, as we both grew up in the woods. He taught me how to use a knife properly, use an axe and handsaw to fall trees the right way, how to make emergency shelters and fires in the woods. I've had a knife of my own since I was 4 years old, I've always used it as a tool not as a self defence weapon. People who ask, "Why do you carry a knife in the city?" are the same idiots that are asking if anyone has a knife when they need something cut. I think the people on this forum are the ones that choose to prepare themselves for the unexpected and there shouldn't be anything wrong with that.

 

[joe-bob]

I carry knives as tools. When I carry a fixed blade, it's usually under 4 inches of blade. That's less blade than a steak knife.

Most tools of all kinds could be used as weapons; screwdrivers, prybars, hammers, etc.

IIRC, Statistically, when a knife is used as a weapon, it is most often a kitchen knife.

 

[45stops-em-quick]

If only every state had Arizona's gun carry laws...well, maybe it's not such a good idea.

Huh???


"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
Thomas Jefferson


Laws curtailing the carrying of arms have never prevented a crime, and have only allowed those who perpetrate them to do so with greater confidence, frequency and success. After all someone who is willing to rob, rape, and murder has already made peace with breaking the law, and will carry any tools they need to do their job. An honest citizen should not be curtailled from carrying those tools that he or she needs to do their job, that is to live, and those tools are guns, knives, and anthing else that helps to level the playing field with an attacker. After all the attacker, by virtue of choosing where, when, and how the confrontation will occur already has a huge advantage.

ETA

Knives and guns are by definition tools, as are all weapons. Tools seek to give a mechanical advantage in performing a task. Sure you could throw a piece of lead fast, just not as fast as firearm. All weapons are tools, and most tools can be used as weapons. As an example, the hell's angels MC's weapon of choice is the ball peen hammer, should we now curtail the carrying of hammers?

 

[allenC]

I have a coffee mug and several drafting pencils on my desk that I could probably use more effectively as weapons than my pocket knife.

Most tools of all kinds could be used as weapons; screwdrivers, prybars, hammers, etc.

Yes, just about anything can be used as a weapon.
But this does not negate the fact that historically knives have often been used as weapons.
In fact, some knives are expressly designed to be used as weapons....the same really can't be said of coffee mugs.

Instead of trying to convince folks that your knife is a tool instead of a weapon, you might want to try and convince them that you have the right to be armed for self defense purposes....

Sandra Sheeple: "Why do you carry a knife?"

Me: "Just in case I need to cut something....or defend myself. Do you have a problem with that?"

 

[lwt210]

90% or our currrent population are extremely stupid people. They've never left the city, they have 0 survival skills and when the sh#t hits the fan they will be totally clueless on how to save themselves. .

That pretty much sums up the problem right there. Add in to that the fact that most folks can't think for themselves either and just go with the latest sound bite in the media.

I'm a cop by trade and carry a multi tool, tacticool folder and a traditional slippie in my shirt pocket. Usually it's a Case Trapper and I use it for cutting up lunch meals and apples and such. Even here in the south, I will get the "eye" from a person that notices the Case spey blade slicing whatever it is I am consuming. You can tell that they see it as a "weapon" and not as a more suitable tool for cutting my chicken or steak than the plastic utensils or butter knives you get in restaurants.

The more years I am in this line of work the less and less I see men (using that term loosely here) carrying any type of knife on them. I am even seeing construction workers and others that when I have to pat them down they don't have any type of cutting tool on them. I wonder sometimes how they get around without one.

It's sad really that boys aren't carrying small folders at school anymore. I remember as a teen openly carrying a sheath folder or other folding knife at school and nobody cared. Of course, we all had shotguns in the pickup trucks and they were parked out in the student parking lot. Simpler times then, I guess.

I think that the overall situation will get worse before it gets better. I have a federal trial coming up that I am the lead investigator in and I have already been told that I will be disarmed at the door even though I will be in full police class A uniform. More than likely, they will take my back up PPK and I can only hope to get my Emerson and Case through the door.

I bet any witnesses or jury members that come in with a traditional folder will be met with instant confiscation for the proceedings which is, in my opinion, fundamentally unjust.

Yeah, I may have to use my Emerson one day as a last ditch "weapon". Of course, I may have to use the crow bar in the cruiser trunk as a last ditch weapon too.

The times we live in.

 

[45stops-em-quick]

The more years I am in this line of work the less and less I see men (using that term loosely here) carrying any type of knife on them. I am even seeing construction workers and others that when I have to pat them down they don't have any type of cutting tool on them. I wonder sometimes how they get around without one.

It's sad really that boys aren't carrying small folders at school anymore. I remember as a teen openly carrying a sheath folder or other folding knife at school and nobody cared. Of course, we all had shotguns in the pickup trucks and they were parked out in the student parking lot. Simpler times then, I guess.

That pretty much sums it up, most people would say that a cell phone is a much more important item to carry in an emergency. With it they can call for help, etc. It's a fundamental change in attitudes that is definately not for the better. The old mentality(the one I was raised with) is a knife is more important, with it I can help myself.

 

[allenC]

That pretty much sums it up, most people would say that a cell phone is a much more important item to carry in an emergency. With it they can call for help, etc. It's a fundamental change in attitudes that is definately not for the better. The old mentality(the one I was raised with) is a knife is more important, with it I can help myself.

It depends upon the nature of the crisis.

Sometimes the knife would be more useful, other times the cellphone might be.

 

[45stops-em-quick]

It depends upon the nature of the crisis.

Sometimes the knife would be more useful, other times the cellphone might be.

I agree, however, it's the mentality of calling someone without considering the possibility that you could solve the problem yourself that I'm referring to.

 

[BladefulArt]

Good points all.

KnifeRights, in my view, is not as effective an approach as the AKTI approach which promotes the carry and use of knives of as tools.

Never even knew about AKTI until now, thank you for the info.

 

[wlifter123]

I don't think the general population is stupid or has a problem with people carrying a pocket knife. There are individuals that I'm sure would prefer you don't carry a knife, but I don't think the average person has a problem with anyone carrying a pocket knife.

I was once walking my dog, a black and tan coonhound and a women came up to me and asked me if I hunt him. I told her that I did not, cause I'm a bird hunter and coon dogs make lousy pointers. So she asked (verified) if I was a hunter. I told her yes. She told me she hated hunters. I simply told her I understood and begain walking away. She followed me and told me again that she hated hunters, and I again told her that I understood. She once again told me she hated hunting and started to go on about how cruel it was. I pointed out that she dropped her key. She thanked me. I walked away with my dog, and even though that lady hates the fact that I hunt, I still have hunted since that interaction and will continue to hunt. I don't mind that she doesn't like hunting, I couldn't care less if she approves, I'm still going to do it. Same with carrying a knife. If one lady raises her eyebrows at my single blade trapper I'll continue to be civil to her, giving her no reason to fear me or my knife, but I'll also continue to carry and use it. There's really nothing else you can do.

A knife education program isn't going to catch on and people aren't going to change their minds. All you can do is be civil, don't give people a reason to fear the fact that you carry a knife, and live your life. If you're a good person and people know you carry a knife you've already set a good precedent for the rest of us.

And when people ask me why I carry a knife I just tell them that my grandfather does, my dad does, and I, like them, have found it to be an indespensable tool throughout my day. I don't think anybody has ever had a problem with that answer.

 

[SPHayes]

It's everyhwere now, even in the Army. I have been told at times that I could not carry a sheath knife in the field. Many commands have rules concerning blade length for folding knives in garrison.
Patrick

 

[reconranger]

I darn well do consider my knives to be weapons, along with every other item in the room!!! I can legally carry a 4" folder concealed most anywhere, either carried as a "weapon" or not, so I am for sure going to take advantage of that fact!

I don't have to pretend its a "tool" or any BS like that, and I sure don't feel apologetic in any way, just because someone doesn't think that is "politically correct". (Kind of hard to pretend that a pair of Emerson Combat Karambits are "tools" anyway!)