A rising problem?

[pedicabdriver]

It's not that simple....
If someone looks upon my knife as a weapon, I can't tell them that they are wrong....after all, I have used my knife as a weapon before and may do so again if need be.
In my opinion, a knife is both a tool and a weapon.
To ignore this duality is to be dishonest with oneself, and to whomever you are trying to sway.

Totally agree with you on this point.

I think part of the problem, as well, is that many knife users fail to think before they carry. The knife you carry should be appropriate for the environment. You may love your spyderco military, but is it really the best option for school or office carry? You'd have a much harder time, in my experience, convincing someone that your military is a tool and not a weapon than you would with a SAK/leatherman or a small slipjoint.

I'm currently in school, but I had taken a year off to work full time. I had a job as a cashier at Whole Foods, and most of my co-workers were what a lot of you would call sheeple. When I first started working, I carried a Victorinox Classic because I wasn't a fan of the boxcutters they provided us with. I got a few odd looks at first, but after a week or two when they saw that I was using my knife responsibly and safely they didn't care anymore. After they had gotten used to the SAK, I swapped it for a delica. Guess what? No one even noticed. By the time I quit, my co-workers were comfortable with me carrying just about anything I wanted.

If you guys really want to change people's perception of knives and knife users, start small. Show people that little knives are primarily tools and not weapons, and odds are they'll be more open to the idea that a spyderco military isn't any more of a threat to them than a SAK.

 

[Connor]

I was once walking my dog, a black and tan coonhound and a women came up to me and asked me if I hunt him. I told her that I did not, cause I'm a bird hunter and coon dogs make lousy pointers. So she asked (verified) if I was a hunter. I told her yes. She told me she hated hunters. I simply told her I understood and begain walking away. She followed me and told me again that she hated hunters, and I again told her that I understood. She once again told me she hated hunting and started to go on about how cruel it was. I pointed out that she dropped her key. She thanked me. I walked away with my dog, and even though that lady hates the fact that I hunt, I still have hunted since that interaction and will continue to hunt. I don't mind that she doesn't like hunting, I couldn't care less if she approves, I'm still going to do it. Same with carrying a knife. If one lady raises her eyebrows at my single blade trapper I'll continue to be civil to her, giving her no reason to fear me or my knife, but I'll also continue to carry and use it. There's really nothing else you can do.

[...]

And when people ask me why I carry a knife I just tell them that my grandfather does, my dad does, and I, like them, have found it to be an indespensable tool throughout my day. I don't think anybody has ever had a problem with that answer.

wlifter123,

that was a good and civil way to deal with the lady and probably the best way to make her think about herself, too (if at all possible).

Personally I like to ask people who dislike hunting or similar activities whether they are vegetarians or not. Because if the aren't they should STFU in my opinion. I just try to use more polite words to tell them. ;-)

-Connor

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

I carry knives which are weapons, and intended only for that purpose. I carry knives which are tools, and intended only for that purpose.

I have no heartburn with seeing a distinction, and a diversity in use. I make no apologies for this, and anybody I come in contact with, be they friend, family, or stranger, can either accept this or not, again, I don't care.

I use my knives responsibly. I don't whip them out at the slightest need or provocation. I carry them in a low-key fashion, and only use them for their intended purposes. Thankfully, not the SD knives yet.... Most folks don't even know I have them.

Andy

 

[shecky]

Personally I like to ask people who dislike hunting or similar activities whether they are vegetarians or not. Because if the aren't they should STFU in my opinion.

Why? Hunting isn't the same as farming meat.

Regarding the OP, it's not clear to me that knife violence is rising. Frankly, I find this whole issue largely a lot of pointless hand wringing on the part of knife nuts. Let's face the facts. Knives have always been used as weapons, and always will be. There's no point in trying to erase that association. They are also useful non violent tools most folks utilize in some way every day. Most people are not idiots, and most people are capable of seeing a knife and not freaking out. The worst tendency among knife nuts these days is for them to view themselves as some kind of enlightened, yet persecuted minority. You folks can go down this road if you wish, but don't ask me to join your pity party.

 

[Connor]

Why? Hunting isn't the same as farming meat.

The end result is the same: Dead animals.
In my opinion someone who is eating animals, someone who has a car with full leather interior or the like doesn't have the moral highgrounds to complain about hunting.

-Connor

 

[JTR357]

People like this are the very reason our rights are endangered. Not just about knives.


Definitely a rising problem when someone complains about misconceptions about knives, then includes this BS in their post.

The problem isn't going away, and it isn't just that people won't act on their own behalf, but that they refuse to think for themselves. Most attacks may not involve knives, but ALL car wrecks involve cars. The reason you don't see an outcry against those killer vehicles is that the same people who would like to see "dangerous items"(oh, those deadly and evil inanimate objects that endanger us all) banned is that they have a need for those same items. In today's convenient society, where there's always someone else to save them from whatever happens to them on a day-to-day basis, they don't perceive a need for a gun, knife, etc. nor do they consider themselves intelligent enough to competently or safely use one...and naturally assume everyone else is just as stupid as they are, so of course these things are dangerous, and should be done away with.
It's a sad, sissified world we live in.

My thoughts exactly

 

[archieblue]

if someone threatened me with a knife (a brandishing situation), I would see it as a weakness... that knife is what is on their mind. 1. I'd blind them with my flashlight, kick them square in the nuts, and wing 'em on the dome with the light, or 2. (no light) I'd take 2 steps back, pick up the nearest heavy thing (chair, glass, coffee mug, coffee pot, ipod, book, briefcase, ukulele, or a 10pound bag of d!cks), and throw it at them with my 85mph. fastball arm, follow it to contact, kick them in the nuts, and proceed with beating.

I had a friend in Austin (girl) have a guy come up behind her, hold a knife to her cheek, say "don't F-ing move" as he took everything from her pockets, then cut her face as he let her go... at this point, I think I'd just Not F-ing move.

I think CARRYING a knife for ANY reason is fine, and should be legal, even on Airplanes. But I think an untrained person USING a knife for SD will get hurt or killed. If you carry a knife, you should have a plan for worse case scenario. For me, I would NEVER brandish a knife, and would only use a knife for SD if my death was likely, and I KNEW I wouldn't fumble with it.

 

[reconranger]

Public preception is important, but there is also danger in rearanging your life so that everything you do is "politically correct"!!!

For me, I can quietly and legally carry a concealed "tactical" folder, and that is as politically correct as I am ever willing to be.....there isn't anything illegitimate about being prepared in every way possible to defend one's self!!!

 

[allenC]

ColonelX, I could not disagree with your post more.

A knife as a weapon is a LAST RESORT. knives are tools NOT weapons, you are more likely to hurt yourself than anything else.

This is total nonsense.
I don't know who told you that you're more likely to hurt yourself than the person you're defending against, but it's certainly a lie.
Humans have been using knives to defend (and attack) other humans, and with great success, for millions of years.

a knife designed for combat should be reserved for military an law enforcement ONLY. a knife as a tool is an acceptable reason to carry, a knife as a weapon unless you are law enforcement or military it makes near to no sense to carry a knife as solely a weapon,....

Again, this is nonsense.
Civilians have just as much right to defend themselves as police or military.

....a knife to an untrained civilian is just as dangerous in their own hands as in their attackers.

You're wrong.
Time and time again, for millions of years, untrained folks have successfully used knives for self-defense (and offense).
And untrained prisoners use improvised "knives" everyday for defense and offense in prisons all around the world.

 

[Blop]

No, i don´t agree with that. Any time, no knife was intended to be a weapon or tool. Weapons were weapons and knifes were cutting tools. Tactical wave made the change.

In former times, civilians were allowed to carry large knives instead of swords, which were allowed to aristocrats.

Maybe knives were used as tools in fights and struggles which gave knives a bad taste as a coward or hidden weapon. Maybe that has translated into our times.

In times, were weapons were allowed to carry, noone would have considered a 4" blade to depend his live on. Well, remember Crocodile Dundee.

Consider a knife as a weapon is to consider misuse in the first point.

Now, i reflect my own experience: I don´t consider my knife as a weapon, because in the past twenty years of daily carry i never need to use a knife as a weapon nor were i in a situation i had to fight. This is the world i live in, a very peaceful.

To consider my knife as a weapon would be just not more than an attitude of political incorrectness. I don´t like that attitude, it just reflects pc - nonsense.

Would someone ask, if i exclude to consider my knife to be a weapon in any way, i wouldn´t, because i could imagine that.

I just can imagine my knife to be a weapon, but i don´t consider that, because i never had to use it that. way. My knife is a very personal tool, i like to carry each day and situation.

Why are more ppl. asking for knives as weapons here? I don´t know. Maybe as long as knives are blamed to be "bad" things, young ppl. are looking for it. Are those ppl. asking same questions in self defense forums? What answers do they get there?

 

[shecky]

It's a sad, sissified world we live in.

My thoughts exactly

Why not move to one of the less sissified regions of the world if the West is too soft for you? Be warned, they those places to be plenty sad nonetheless.

 

[shecky]

The end result is the same: Dead animals.

Thank you. I make the same point when local nutcases rant about the evils of dogfighting or eating horsemeat.

In my opinion someone who is eating animals, someone who has a car with full leather interior or the like doesn't have the moral highgrounds to complain about hunting.

Yet still, you seem to be ignoring the fact that many well reasoned folks make a distinction between the hows and whys animals are killed.

 

[allenC]

For those who don't consider a knife to be a weapon.....

If you were attacked by a knife wielding foe who nearly killed you before he was stopped, do you think that person should be charged with "assault with a deadly weapon", or not?

Do you think that police see a man threatening them with a knife as "a man with a weapon" or as "a man with a tool"?

 

[knarfeng]

It depends where you are, too. Honestly, if people get to know you for a length of time, don't see you as a threat and then happen to find out you have and like knives as tools, they're generally somewhat accepting as long as they see you using them only as tools.

Obviously there are places this doesn't apply, like in office settings or some big cities.

it seems that people are more likely to jump to conclusions if they know nothing about you, and suddenly you whip out a large knife--even if it's for a perfectly justified tool use.

That has been my experience.

The fact that I like knives is seldom the first thing people learn about me. By the time they do find out I like knives, they don't care. By that time they have already formed their opinions about me based on other factors.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

For those who don't consider a knife to be a weapon.....

If you were attacked by a knife wielding foe who nearly killed you before he was stopped, do you think that person should be charged with "assault with a deadly weapon", or not?

Do you think that police see a man threatening them with a knife as "a man with a weapon" or as "a man with a tool"?

Agreed. And conversely, if you have a knife on your person and someone then attacks you, I believe that you would start to think of that knife as much more of a weapon than a tool.

Andy

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

No, i don´t agree with that. Any time, no knife was intended to be a weapon or tool. Weapons were weapons and knifes were cutting tools. Tactical wave made the change.

Consider a knife as a weapon is to consider misuse in the first point.

Now, i reflect my own experience: I don´t consider my knife as a weapon, because in the past twenty years of daily carry i never need to use a knife as a weapon nor were i in a situation i had to fight. This is the world i live in, a very peaceful.

To consider my knife as a weapon would be just not more than an attitude of political incorrectness. I don´t like that attitude, it just reflects pc - nonsense.

I just can imagine my knife to be a weapon, but i don´t consider that, because i never had to use it that. way. My knife is a very personal tool, i like to carry each day and situation.

Why are more ppl. asking for knives as weapons here? I don´t know. Maybe as long as knives are blamed to be "bad" things, young ppl. are looking for it. Are those ppl. asking same questions in self defense forums? What answers do they get there?

I carry a handgun just about every day. I never think of it as a "tool" in the classical sense. It is a weapon, first and foremost.

I carry knives which are designed to be weapons. And I carry knives which are designed to be utilitarian.

I have lived in your "safe" society... and I was threatened with a knife, and saw a police officer cut with one in a different incident. Just because you haven't ever needed your knife as a weapon, and even have difficulty envisioning it as a weapon, doesn't mean that such will always be the case.

Andy

 

[artmichalek]

For those who don't consider a knife to be a weapon.....

If you were attacked by a knife wielding foe who nearly killed you before he was stopped, do you think that person should be charged with "assault with a deadly weapon", or not?

Do you think that police see a man threatening them with a knife as "a man with a weapon" or as "a man with a tool"?

Well, what if it was a tire iron instead of a knife? If you assault someone with anything that has the potential to kill them, you will may charged with "assault with a deadly weapon". The law recognizes the context as well as the instrument.

Agreed. And conversely, if you have a knife on your person and someone then attacks you, I believe that you would start to think of that knife as much more of a weapon than a tool.

And if I'm attacked while I'm changing a tire, I'm going to start thinking of that tire iron as a weapon. But until that instant it's a tool, and I'm not going to tell people that I keep it in my trunk because I have the right to be armed.

 

[Blop]

For those who don't consider a knife to be a weapon.....

If you were attacked by a knife wielding foe who nearly killed you before he was stopped, do you think that person should be charged with "assault with a deadly weapon", or not?

Do you think that police see a man threatening them with a knife as "a man with a weapon" or as "a man with a tool"?

OK, here there are different definitions of "weapon".

Anything used against someone is a weapon, so in some respect an attac with any "tool" would be seen as "with a weapon" even, though it was torch or screwdriver or whatever.

That does not make a knife to a tool, nor does personal view.

There are laws which define what a weapon is. What is not noted there, is not. Not the best and absolute answering laws, what we have here, but there are such. In that, a scrwedrver and a knife is not a weapon. So, a knife is not.

Weapons are tools too! There use must be learned otherwise you fail.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

Well, what if it was a tire iron instead of a knife? If you assault someone with anything that has the potential to kill them, you will may charged with "assault with a deadly weapon". The law recognizes the context as well as the instrument.



And if I'm attacked while I'm changing a tire, I'm going to start thinking of that tire iron as a weapon. But until that instant it's a tool, and I'm not going to tell people that I keep it in my trunk because I have the right to be armed.

You missed the point.

Andy

 

[reconranger]

No, i don´t agree with that. Any time, no knife was intended to be a weapon or tool. Weapons were weapons and knifes were cutting tools. Tactical wave made the change.

In former times, civilians were allowed to carry large knives instead of swords, which were allowed to aristocrats.

Maybe knives were used as tools in fights and struggles which gave knives a bad taste as a coward or hidden weapon. Maybe that has translated into our times.

In times, were weapons were allowed to carry, noone would have considered a 4" blade to depend his live on. Well, remember Crocodile Dundee.

Consider a knife as a weapon is to consider misuse in the first point.

Now, i reflect my own experience: I don´t consider my knife as a weapon, because in the past twenty years of daily carry i never need to use a knife as a weapon nor were i in a situation i had to fight. This is the world i live in, a very peaceful.

To consider my knife as a weapon would be just not more than an attitude of political incorrectness. I don´t like that attitude, it just reflects pc - nonsense.

Would someone ask, if i exclude to consider my knife to be a weapon in any way, i wouldn´t, because i could imagine that.

I just can imagine my knife to be a weapon, but i don´t consider that, because i never had to use it that. way. My knife is a very personal tool, i like to carry each day and situation.

Why are more ppl. asking for knives as weapons here? I don´t know. Maybe as long as knives are blamed to be "bad" things, young ppl. are looking for it. Are those ppl. asking same questions in self defense forums? What answers do they get there?

Sorry, no polite way to say this.....but your brain has been washed by the leftist socialist/communist/Stalinists, who have always been trying to take over Europe.... They just want to make you their slaves, and you are going right along with them like a sheep. Just like a sheep, they have castrated you and you don't even realize it....