-
All For Sale threads must have a pic showing the knife being sold with written date listed, your username & Bladeforums or BFC to prevent photo harvesting from elsewhere - scammers hate this one trick! The rules for The Exchange can be found here. Please read and follow them. Stop using Paypal Friends & Family and follow our best practices to prevent getting ripped off or having a bad deal.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
a sincere Question re: the 'Give Plutoh a Knife' related threads.
- Thread starter Greykilt
- Start date
- Status
......gently gently down the stream..... we have paddled this canoe FAR from the relative safety of W&C.
You made a good point. On that- during the research it was noted Plutoh or PassHype made all those multiple gimme posts all over internet heaven just in the last 9 months. Like a lot of teenagers this is his CURRENT interest, soon to be replaced by another no doubt. The big difference is a possible case of internet addiction.
age & responsibility are a much bigger factor in knives then in skateboards. I could care less if a twelve year old gets a skateboard through the mail. I would be more concerned about a twelve year old receiving a knife through the mail.
Several of you fine gentlemen replying here are also participating in the w&c GAW and I have not asked ANY 'contestant' their age nor for any proof thereof. There is an assumed element of faith here on BF which may be less so on the w&c. Getting that 'feel' for the post caused almost immediate skepticism from the monkey tribe. Just the wording alone indicated youthful authorship coupled with it only being Plu second post on BF in a two week old membership.
But to change gears let's say that there is no deceit, that one knows there is a minor member in the GAW. How do you send that forum user a knife? And should you?
I looked over several GAW threads for guidelines and saw no age restrictions posted in the rules. Is it just assumed all entered are legal to do so? And if thats the case isn't that a HUGE assumption? Now granted I did not read every GAW ever posted, just a few random selections but in the 4 I did look over age not mentioned.
You can send a knife to almost anybody in the U.S. depending on their local restrictions. I can order a switchblade knife from a site, but I cannot carry it due to the laws in Virginia. GAW rules are completely up to the OP. Some GAW do state check your local laws before entering or if you win though.
There are many laws and guidelines for what constitutes a legal "sweepstakes" in the US and its individual states, as well as in many other countries. Many of the individual-run giveaways I've seen on this and other web sites violate any number of those laws, but they are unlikely to ever face enforcement since it's usually from an individual to other individuals.
In the US, you must not require a purchase to enter (for example, restricting entries to members with a paid membership). In Canada, a skill test is required so an "I'm in!" giveaway is illegal. It's a very tricky legal landscape and that's why REAL sweepstakes, put on by companies, have about 2 pages of legal documents in the fine print in the "official rules" and usually include drawings conducted by an independent third party.
Winners are usually required to sign affidavits of eligibility and provide other proofs that they can legally win the prize, before it is awarded to them.
If you want to give something to someone, then do it. If you want to go to significant effort to do so, it's your time and money, spend them how you see fit. If you break a law, and there are consequences, be prepared to face them. I recommend you do your homework first.
In the event of something truly significant, like a serious crime or injury resulting, then there's a possibility of civil and criminal actions. And when people start suing, they sue anyone and everyone involved, especially businesses (cause that's where the money is). Like the owner of this forum. The charges might be baseless, but you still have to hire a lawyer to fight them.
I know of other web sites that have very strict rules about giveaways run by members and they have to be approved by and monitored by the forum admins, for the specific legal risks I mentioned.
In the US, you must not require a purchase to enter (for example, restricting entries to members with a paid membership). In Canada, a skill test is required so an "I'm in!" giveaway is illegal. It's a very tricky legal landscape and that's why REAL sweepstakes, put on by companies, have about 2 pages of legal documents in the fine print in the "official rules" and usually include drawings conducted by an independent third party.
Winners are usually required to sign affidavits of eligibility and provide other proofs that they can legally win the prize, before it is awarded to them.
If you want to give something to someone, then do it. If you want to go to significant effort to do so, it's your time and money, spend them how you see fit. If you break a law, and there are consequences, be prepared to face them. I recommend you do your homework first.
In the event of something truly significant, like a serious crime or injury resulting, then there's a possibility of civil and criminal actions. And when people start suing, they sue anyone and everyone involved, especially businesses (cause that's where the money is). Like the owner of this forum. The charges might be baseless, but you still have to hire a lawyer to fight them.
I know of other web sites that have very strict rules about giveaways run by members and they have to be approved by and monitored by the forum admins, for the specific legal risks I mentioned.
Its a wonder anybody does give-aways at all...
I did visit with BF admin before starting the w&c GAW knife for vagabonds made by gremlins give away. And since beginning this thread in 'community center' and subsequently it having been moved here to good, bad, and ugly- I checked with my attorney about offering up a knife. I don't want to mislead anyone, I did not hire council for this specifically, he's romancing my oldest daughter..
In Colorado there are distinct legal parameters that define 'contest' - 'exchange' - 'transaction' - 'trade' & 'gift'. In some circumstances I can give you something that I can not sell you as there are legal requirements a 'commercial' endeavor must follow that a 'private' endeavor does not. And all that changes when the package crosses state lines. And there is a big difference in knife laws between Chicago and Carpentersville but both cities are in the same state.
In the GAW I'm sponsoring there are 2 stages. The 'build the knife' part is not age restricted as this part does not gain possesion of said knife but the 'pathetic post' will have an age disclaimer posted on it's initial rule page. I have been advised to specificly state "One must meet any and all legal requirements to receive, own, posess, utilize, AND transport the specific knife offered. By entering this Give-Away you acknowledge this fact and agree to the terms stated fortwith."
The wording is unique due to the fact someone may be old enough to posess but have other restrictions in place, such as a parolee. Some municipalities have seperate rules for edged tools vs edged weapons / fixed vs folder / blade length / trad or tac / it goes on and on.
The purpose of this thread was to learn exactly "how to do" and I thank all of the replies. The ultimate goal for me being the safety of a receipient over the legal factors. I would never want to give anyone anything that could harm them or others. At the same time one must be conscious of any and all liabilty both legal AND ethical.
I did visit with BF admin before starting the w&c GAW knife for vagabonds made by gremlins give away. And since beginning this thread in 'community center' and subsequently it having been moved here to good, bad, and ugly- I checked with my attorney about offering up a knife. I don't want to mislead anyone, I did not hire council for this specifically, he's romancing my oldest daughter..
In Colorado there are distinct legal parameters that define 'contest' - 'exchange' - 'transaction' - 'trade' & 'gift'. In some circumstances I can give you something that I can not sell you as there are legal requirements a 'commercial' endeavor must follow that a 'private' endeavor does not. And all that changes when the package crosses state lines. And there is a big difference in knife laws between Chicago and Carpentersville but both cities are in the same state.
In the GAW I'm sponsoring there are 2 stages. The 'build the knife' part is not age restricted as this part does not gain possesion of said knife but the 'pathetic post' will have an age disclaimer posted on it's initial rule page. I have been advised to specificly state "One must meet any and all legal requirements to receive, own, posess, utilize, AND transport the specific knife offered. By entering this Give-Away you acknowledge this fact and agree to the terms stated fortwith."
The wording is unique due to the fact someone may be old enough to posess but have other restrictions in place, such as a parolee. Some municipalities have seperate rules for edged tools vs edged weapons / fixed vs folder / blade length / trad or tac / it goes on and on.
The purpose of this thread was to learn exactly "how to do" and I thank all of the replies. The ultimate goal for me being the safety of a receipient over the legal factors. I would never want to give anyone anything that could harm them or others. At the same time one must be conscious of any and all liabilty both legal AND ethical.
Last edited:
During the legal research an example was brought up to illustrate Prudence over Liability.
- a swiiming pool in an apartment complex will typicly have a "Swim At Your Own Risk" sign rather than an On-Duty Lifegaurd. Why?...
The prescence of a Life Gaurd indicates the proprieters are Gaurding your life and Protecting you from injury or loss of life inherit to Swimming Pools. A Warning Sign on the other hand states said inherit risk and places the resposibility of utilization solely upon the user.
Much like the sign on the back of a dump truck- Stay Back Not Responsible For Broken Windshields.
So put the knife in a box with a label stating 'If you open this box.........'
- a swiiming pool in an apartment complex will typicly have a "Swim At Your Own Risk" sign rather than an On-Duty Lifegaurd. Why?...
The prescence of a Life Gaurd indicates the proprieters are Gaurding your life and Protecting you from injury or loss of life inherit to Swimming Pools. A Warning Sign on the other hand states said inherit risk and places the resposibility of utilization solely upon the user.
Much like the sign on the back of a dump truck- Stay Back Not Responsible For Broken Windshields.
So put the knife in a box with a label stating 'If you open this box.........'
-_- to reiterate "My Point WAS NOT (key word: NOT) skateboards vs. knives." Key phrase: WAS NOT
Skateboards have nothing to do with this, age vs. responsibility as in normal 18 year olds wouldn't be going around begging for free stuff or coming up with extravagant stories to illicit free stuff. That's something I see a 14 year old kid trying to pull, especially with all the Internet access kids have nowadays unsupervised.
- Joined
- May 7, 2013
- Messages
- 2,072
I had a young man win a GAW that I had. He is a good contributor to this forum and I didn't realize at first that he was a minor because of how he conducts himself on this forum. I wanted him to have the knife so we talked about it and we decided that I would send it to his Mom with instructions for her to give it to him if she felt it was appropriate.
That worked pretty good. A well spoken, very mature young man got a free knife & I was able to avoid the potential of any problems with sending a knife to a minor.
YMMV.
That worked pretty good. A well spoken, very mature young man got a free knife & I was able to avoid the potential of any problems with sending a knife to a minor.
YMMV.
Personally I will not sell trade or give a knife to anyone under 18. The one exception was my own cousin who was 14, already had knives, hunts and fishes, and had parents who approved. Now, if he would have asked me to give him one for free, I would have told him not a chance. He didn't ask, and I knew he liked the knie so I gifted it to him. These people asking for free stuff typically disgust me. I have many hobbies, and many bills, I don't ask for free knives, I don't ask for free archery gear, other than from legitimate company's that sponsor me as a staff shooter, I fish, but don't beg for a new rod.
I liken the situation to a few years ago when I was in a large city. A panhandler looking homeless gave me a hard luck story and told me he needed some money for food because he was starving. I told him I didn't have any cash but there was a Pizza Hut across the street and I would buy him anything he wanted to eat. He didn't take the offer because he wasn't starving, he promptly told me to F off, after calling me several names. He just wanted money. I was asked by a lady once for money because she needed baby formula and diapers. I told her that if she made a list I would go in the store and buy her the items. She also told me to F off.
When someone truly needs something vital, I will try to help them. To me a knife is not vital. If you don't have the money for one, then You don't have to have one. You will survive without it. If you want a strider, save or work more, don't beg me for mine. Lastly I see a drastic issue with a kid wanting a knife for free because his parens won't buy him one, or "can't afford one". There is typically a fairly logical reason a parent would stop their child from having a knife in the first place, which could be age, maturity, or even mental state. Not something I have any desire to get involved in
I liken the situation to a few years ago when I was in a large city. A panhandler looking homeless gave me a hard luck story and told me he needed some money for food because he was starving. I told him I didn't have any cash but there was a Pizza Hut across the street and I would buy him anything he wanted to eat. He didn't take the offer because he wasn't starving, he promptly told me to F off, after calling me several names. He just wanted money. I was asked by a lady once for money because she needed baby formula and diapers. I told her that if she made a list I would go in the store and buy her the items. She also told me to F off.
When someone truly needs something vital, I will try to help them. To me a knife is not vital. If you don't have the money for one, then You don't have to have one. You will survive without it. If you want a strider, save or work more, don't beg me for mine. Lastly I see a drastic issue with a kid wanting a knife for free because his parens won't buy him one, or "can't afford one". There is typically a fairly logical reason a parent would stop their child from having a knife in the first place, which could be age, maturity, or even mental state. Not something I have any desire to get involved in
First thing, knives and skateboards are not comparable with the responsibility that goes along with them. Second, the maturity difference between 14 and 18 year olds is near zero. I sit beside 18 year olds in my lectures at college and they still act exactly the same as I remember 14 year olds acting back in middle school. They moan, text, disrupt class, and just completely disrespect the instructor.
Well, maybe you have the misfortune of living somewhere with a lot of rich entitled type kids but where I'm from usually you have your priorities and responsibilities in line before your 18. Like a job, so you don't have to beg for things.
but that's just my opinion man. And again, I wasn't saying anything about skateboards, just from my standpoint on the maturity levels and ages that accompany them most. that's one of the things I've taken away from skateboarding.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2013
- Messages
- 197
We all would love free knives, especially the broke people like myself who can't afford to spend more than $20, $30, perhaps $40 on a knife and only on rare occasions. The thing is though, most members of this site are of legal age and have too much pride to ask for handouts. I can't quote laws from all states but i know for here in Florida it is illegal to sell, give, or purchase a knife to/for a minor without parental consent. I'm willing to bet it's the same for a lot of states.
I've once given a knife to a 16 year old friend and one to his 14 year old brother. I deemed them responsible enough, as did their parents. Of course when giving a knife, a tool and potential weapon, to someone it requires a lot of thought and it all comes down to whether or not they are mentally responsible enough to possess it.
If i knew a 12 year old with the mentality of an 18 year old and would not hurt himself or others with a knife, would not take it to school or government buildings, would not play with it, would respect it, and his/her parents approved... I would see no problem with them owning one and as far as I'm aware there is no required age to possess a knife as long as it is not used for criminal activities.
Just my opinion, comes down to maturity and responsibility.
-Church
I've once given a knife to a 16 year old friend and one to his 14 year old brother. I deemed them responsible enough, as did their parents. Of course when giving a knife, a tool and potential weapon, to someone it requires a lot of thought and it all comes down to whether or not they are mentally responsible enough to possess it.
If i knew a 12 year old with the mentality of an 18 year old and would not hurt himself or others with a knife, would not take it to school or government buildings, would not play with it, would respect it, and his/her parents approved... I would see no problem with them owning one and as far as I'm aware there is no required age to possess a knife as long as it is not used for criminal activities.
Just my opinion, comes down to maturity and responsibility.
-Church
Last edited:
And so at this point we have 3 sub topics going simul from the Plutoh threads seperated now for discussion / observation:
1. Does one give a knife (or any other hobby item) to someone who 'begs' for it?
Most posts both here and previous threads have said with few exceptions a resounding, passionate "Absolutely Not!" This is statisticly sound. 8 out of 11 people in the western world say No to beggers and vagrants, DO NOT stop to aid stranded motorists, donate to registered charities, support philanthropic efforts at their place of employment. (* United Way 2012 Campaign Drive Fund Report) Indeed many western world citizens resent even being approached and are abhored by the sight of beggers and homeless people. Many municipalities have strong laws enforced restricting vagrancy. Now this is not presented to make you feel one way or the other. And many people when shown this protest it. "I am NOT that way! It is what it is. The majority of us are indeed that way. Review some of the wording in the replies above. This is how the majority of people in this country feel. You want it then earn it. I got mine Go get yours.
2. Should a kid/child actually posses a knife?
This is the most subjective one and the most argued. What defines a child? Legal age? Maturity level? Parent/Legal Gaurdian? Most of you lean towards perceived behaviour. '"14 year old who acts 18"
It is a fact that Plutoh's store of choice WalMart owned Tractor Supply of Illinois will legally sell a knife to a customer and not require ID. to do so. Many local Colorado stores do not require proof of age. The Boy Scouts of America lists mutiple model knives in their 2014 catalog, both for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts and at 18 you are no longer a Boy Scout. Both axe and hatchet and fixed blade are available.
This is a passionate discussion, take note that somehow, with good intent, we are now comparing skateboards.... The general consensus here is in cooperation with intended recepients legal gaurdians the 'Giver' quantifies the 'Receiver's' maturity level. Now how do you achieve that on an internet chat room? Thus the default No not in the BF Forum venue. This is countered with "I did give a knife to my minor relative" but that is relatively safe. Our thread is more about 'to someone you don't know vs someone you do. Most of us won't sue dear ol' great uncle Herschel for giving lil' Timmy his 1st Barlow. But we will rain down upon a stranger met on-line and rightly so. (Where the hell did you get THIS Young Man!!?!!) Experiment: assuming honest answers will be given, go to the above mentioned 'Teenager' thread and ask our fellow jr members "How many of your parents know you frequent this forum and if so actually read in detail what you post here?"
3. How does an adult 'here' send a knife to a minor 'there'?
St Brees reply above really captured the spirit of the question. If safegaurds can be implemented and confirmed then mail / send the knife to a legal 3rd party.
1. Does one give a knife (or any other hobby item) to someone who 'begs' for it?
Most posts both here and previous threads have said with few exceptions a resounding, passionate "Absolutely Not!" This is statisticly sound. 8 out of 11 people in the western world say No to beggers and vagrants, DO NOT stop to aid stranded motorists, donate to registered charities, support philanthropic efforts at their place of employment. (* United Way 2012 Campaign Drive Fund Report) Indeed many western world citizens resent even being approached and are abhored by the sight of beggers and homeless people. Many municipalities have strong laws enforced restricting vagrancy. Now this is not presented to make you feel one way or the other. And many people when shown this protest it. "I am NOT that way! It is what it is. The majority of us are indeed that way. Review some of the wording in the replies above. This is how the majority of people in this country feel. You want it then earn it. I got mine Go get yours.
2. Should a kid/child actually posses a knife?
This is the most subjective one and the most argued. What defines a child? Legal age? Maturity level? Parent/Legal Gaurdian? Most of you lean towards perceived behaviour. '"14 year old who acts 18"
It is a fact that Plutoh's store of choice WalMart owned Tractor Supply of Illinois will legally sell a knife to a customer and not require ID. to do so. Many local Colorado stores do not require proof of age. The Boy Scouts of America lists mutiple model knives in their 2014 catalog, both for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts and at 18 you are no longer a Boy Scout. Both axe and hatchet and fixed blade are available.
This is a passionate discussion, take note that somehow, with good intent, we are now comparing skateboards....
The general consensus here is in cooperation with intended recepients legal gaurdians the 'Giver' quantifies the 'Receiver's' maturity level. Now how do you achieve that on an internet chat room? Thus the default No not in the BF Forum venue. This is countered with "I did give a knife to my minor relative" but that is relatively safe. Our thread is more about 'to someone you don't know vs someone you do. Most of us won't sue dear ol' great uncle Herschel for giving lil' Timmy his 1st Barlow. But we will rain down upon a stranger met on-line and rightly so. (Where the hell did you get THIS Young Man!!?!!) Experiment: assuming honest answers will be given, go to the above mentioned 'Teenager' thread and ask our fellow jr members "How many of your parents know you frequent this forum and if so actually read in detail what you post here?"3. How does an adult 'here' send a knife to a minor 'there'?
St Brees reply above really captured the spirit of the question. If safegaurds can be implemented and confirmed then mail / send the knife to a legal 3rd party.
Last edited:
I don't think anyone should beg for anything. Unfortunately though I have seen 16 year olds beg their parents for a hat or a shirt in the retail store where I work. I stopped begging and saving up my allowance when I was twelve so I could buy stuff with my own money, and my parents couldn't take it away to punish me either . Maybe if one of the more popular members on the BF wanted to do a charity knife collection for someone they deemed fit to own a knife, then most members would be okay with it and probably would join in. But that's completely different than some new member begging for a knife, which I just think to myself " I had to buy all my knives, so screw you". I did have a knife since a young age because I was in the cub scouts , then boy scouts, and so on. But that was a legitimate reason, and they were never nothing more than a little traditional folder.
. Maybe if one of the more popular members on the BF wanted to do a charity knife collection for someone they deemed fit to own a knife, then most members would be okay with it and probably would join in. But that's completely different than some new member begging for a knife, which I just think to myself " I had to buy all my knives, so screw you". I did have a knife since a young age because I was in the cub scouts , then boy scouts, and so on. But that was a legitimate reason, and they were never nothing more than a little traditional folder.
- Status