A Spyderco Pikal?

Like Ken, I like the idea of a knife that's comfortable, secure, and useable in any grip, including pakal. That's not only because the stress of a defensive situation might cause me to grab the knife in the "wrong" grip, but because as we already know, most knives carried for defensive use will at some point or other be used for utility use. Might as well accept it, and make it useable in standard forward grip for the reason. A dedicated pakal fighter doesn't need this feature (viz. the Disciple), but I do very much like the idea of a pakal fighter that is useable in any grip, and I think it can be designed without giving up too much.

And to show again where individual tastes lie, Ken's choice of the Perrin bowie doesn't feel good to me in either saksak or pakal. In forward grip, the very deep and sudden index finger groove makes my grip feel very odd. In pakal, the meat of my palm sinks in uncomfortably. I feel that deep transitions, like too-deep index finger grooves, are not a plus. Smoothing out the transitions can get you a lot of the security and drastically increase comfort.

The fixed-blade temp feels okay in pakal for me.
 
I'll definately buy at a least two of any dedicated Pikal blade Spyderco makes... perhaps more (so that in 20 years, I still have one even if I lose any others.. good tools are worth having spares of ;) )
Sal, you're doing good to take a look at SouthNarc's material, he's the man for pikal, and knows his "stuff" :)

Edited to add - I think it is a positive to have a knife that will work in any grip that it ends up in, but there are a lot of knives on the market that are totally handle neutral - I would like a knife that *can* work however I get it in my hand, but that is most definately intended and shaped for pikal... I already have plenty of choices for handle neutral knives, and as a user of primarily pikal, I want a tool that while it will work for any contengencies in grip that may happen, is still at its best, best locked into my hand, most comfortable, etc. how I plan to be using the knife (and that, by doing so, allows me a certain ability to index the orientation of the blade in the heat of the moment).

Of course, as has been mentioned, the knife would have to be MBC rated - although I find I do almost all my utility cutting edge up, pikal is a combative method, so an MBC rated piece and preferably with a trainer is a huge plus.
 
A good example of a "neutral" grip design is the Shivworks/Rinaldi Clinch-Pick.

Forward or reverse both feel right. Granted the C-P is optimized for forward-grip-edge-up, but flies well in true pikal, if the user so desires.

That's not to say a pikal folder has to have the same handle design as the C-P, but it supports Joe's concept that the handle does not have to be pikal specific, to create a viable "pikal folder".
 
I worry about a lockback for pakal, at least one without a lock that's very hard to disengage. When I hold the delica or endura in pakal, my finger conveniently slides right into the boye detent. No problem when I'm drilling and I'm nice and relaxed. As soon as I start white-knuckling, I can feel the lock start to disengage, which makes sense, because my finger is in the perfect place to disengage it. Maybe a really stiff lock like the Chinook's would be okay, but I'd strongly prefer something my fingers didn't touch at all -- I love the compression lock for this type of knife, say, or the ball lock. (assuming it's a folder and not a fixed blade Sal is thinking of).

Joe
 
i had the same mod done as T.O.T.C , at mike s. right now being resheathed.
i have SN's vid. and have been carrying my Shabaria,reverse s meertcat(works for me)
i would love a fb04 type pikal
if you make a straight or folding pilal i will buy it :D
 
One last point, and sorry for the babbling. If it's a folder we're talking about, the biggest problem to be solved is: how do you get the thing open? With a standard Spyderco hole, the most convenient way to open the knife is in forward grip ... then, you have to spin it around into pakal. Not something I'd relish under any sort of stress. Perhaps we just live with spinning the knife after it's open -- another good reason to make sure it can be used in standard forward grip, just in case.

Currently, some guys are using Kershaw's old Southern Comfort as a pakal knife. It has a bottle opener on the top (basically, picture a Spyderco hole with the front of the hole ground off). I think this knife came out before Emerson patented the Wave, and I imagine Kershaw intended the bottle opener to be used as bottle opener, not a blade opening mechanism. However, the smart guys at SDF figured out that it functions just like a Wave, and if the clip is mounted properly, voila! Pakal folder.

There's other options ... several companies have flilpper that, like KErshaw's bottle opener and Emerson's Wave, catch the pocket upon withdrawing the knife.

Joe
 
Sal I will also buy at least 3 of these knives if they are ever made. I own alot of spyderco knives, 15 now i think .I also have 2 sharp makers. Your knives are great they set the standard for production knives. I would like it very much if you give this methodology some serious thought. Please keep up the good work your products always seem to exceed my expectations. I hope this idea becomes a reality no matter how long it takes.
 
We'd probably have to content ourself with drawing and manipulating it a bit much like the Tarani Kerambits. If someone wanted to mod it that would be on the end-user.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Is the Pakal knife always used in reverse grip edge in?

Is it Pikal or Pakal?

Are there any books or videos on the stye?

A dedicated folder might be an interesting project.

thanx,

BTW, when I designed the Temperance FB, a concern was in dealing with animals (bears and cats where I live). I wanted a design that could be used in reverse grip, edge in, to penetrate easily and deeply and cut it's way out while pulling. I was concerened that a hawkbill style blade might be slow coming out. The double distal tapers (hilt to tip, spine to edge) does perform that particular goal well.

sal
Click to expand...

I've found the Temperance FB to be very good in the reverse grip - end in. The handle locks into my hand. Works!
 
I am DEFINITELY on board for a Spydie Pikal!!!!! (Spykal? :eek: )

Though, I can't say I'm too keen on the idea of Thumbing a folder open and then flipping it in my hand to achieve a proper Pikal grip. Seems to defy any sensible 'Practical' Self Defense concepts.

I'd like to see either a FB or a cleverly designed folder that enables a draw DIRECTLY to Pikal (I'm SURE that, if ANYONE is, Sal and Crew are up to it!!! ;) ).


-John
 
I think a folder has a serious advantage, because more people can and will carry folders... even where its legal a lot of people wont (or cant sometimes) carry fixed blades, even if they carry a folder.

Of course, the problem is drawing it into pikal as others have mentioned - with the Wave being a Patent and Trademark of Emerson Knives Inc. I dont think there is anything that can be done to make a knife function like that, if you are another maker/company.
If there is any possibility of this, Spyderco will know and bring that to the table... otherwise, I'd already marked this off as an impossibility.

But... pikal, or forward grip-edge up, either way its a dedicated knife, and one that works for one will work for the other - both methods should appeal to the same people, for the same reasons - and its very easy to open a folder directly into edge-up forward grip - as the opening completes, instead of rolling the folder over in the hand (a dangerous fine motor skill in itself), you just put the thumb over the knife and clamp down, leaving it in edge-up grip. Like so:
One1.jpg

Simple, yes? Spyderhole folders work great like this, because of the real ease of using a spyderhole - makes everything much more sure fire and reliable.

I think the market is already seeing a few more pikal fixed blades, with more to come... the real need, that I see as a user, is a widely available Pikal dedicated folder, something tough (MBC quality), and widely available - which is something existing folding-knife solutions such as the Kershaw Talon arent, being of a weak lock and not widely available due to being out of production.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Is the Pakal knife always used in reverse grip edge in?

Is it Pikal or Pakal?

Are there any books or videos on the stye?

A dedicated folder might be an interesting project.

thanx,

BTW, when I designed the Temperance FB, a concern was in dealing with animals (bears and cats where I live). I wanted a design that could be used in reverse grip, edge in, to penetrate easily and deeply and cut it's way out while pulling. I was concerened that a hawkbill style blade might be slow coming out. The double distal tapers (hilt to tip, spine to edge) does perform that particular goal well.

sal
Click to expand...
If you're looking for an instructional resorce you must check out Southnarc's instructional DVD "Reverse Edge Methods". This DVD is a must have in anyones video library. Southnarc delivers a straight forward, easy to understand message on how to carry, deploy, and apply the fighting tools and the principles behind them. To see for your self go to www.shivworks.com and/or www.mdtactical.com. You won't be disappointed. To get the DVD, Fighting Tools, and Trainers go to the MD Tactical website or shoot an e-mail to russ@mdtactical.com.
 
Pikal is my primary method of blade deployment these days. If this project happens, I'd buy at least two.
 
Yah, I agree about the opening probably not being solveable, and in fact I would be content, even if I had to open the knife then flip it over to get it in pakal. 'course, there's no reason the customer can't grind the front part of the hole away. I'm still way on board, just wanted to get Sal thinking about the opening, he's proven a tad clever in the past :) .

Joe
 
Wow, I'd buy a Spyderco Pikal in a second.
I realize I just said a few posts ago that I doubted there was enough market but if Sal is asking questions then it should be noted that I would certainly buy a Spyderco Pikal.

As it stands now, I've already modifed my Ronin to be a pikal blade (see above) and plan to get a Yojimbo as a makeshift pikal folder.
 
If you guys make it, I'll buy it. :)

Sal, if you're really interested, by all means get in touch with SouthNarc. He's been working with that concept for quite some time - I can't think of a better source on the subject.
 
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