A USA Knife And A Foreign Gun

Daverageguy said:
Colt is overpriced and lost to Springfield and Kimber on 1911's(yes you really can buy one that works from the box)
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Kimbers are good but I don't see where they're any better than a Colt, most Colts run near the better Springfields in price and I have yet to see a Springfield that didn't need to be smoothed out with a Dremel, the fit and finish of the ones I've seen were terrible. Prob won't interest you but the best deal going in a 1911 is the new SW1911 for the money it is a lot of gun. BTW Ruger and many other gun companies have "sold out" from time to time in the past and will continue to do so in the future to avoid being closed by an overly anti-gun regime. Smith and Wesson are turning out great products if you don't want to buy one don't, but I think it is time for the boycott to end. All that will be accomplished by trying to bankrupt a major US Gun manufacturer is exactly what the anti-gun community want, less gun makers. And Smith and Wesson is one of the LARGEST handgun makers, if they can be toppled don't think for a minute that Beretta, Glock, or any other company will be safe.

For the guy that mentioned wanting a CCW gun from S&W or Colt, check out the S&W Chief's Special in 9mm, .40, or .45, the Compact versions of the SW99 or the Colt Defender.
 
Spydie i carry a Endura and own a Delica so we can agree on knife makers,and maybe it's that my Glocks are accurate from the box and all 1911's can benefit from a master smith.....but we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on s&w.Down here in Dixie we have a saying"You sleep with dogs,your gonna get fleas" and im pro everyone use what you like as the next guy(or gal) but if S&W went belly up i'd break out the good stuff and grill something invite my Redneck buds over for a party. :D have seen a sw1911 have not seen a new colt in at least 2 years,would buy a new colt.if they would chop $400 off the price.as far as Compacts go that Glock 26 is hard to beat and while i'm not kicking s&W too hard, haven't seen anyone else copy their semiauto designs like they did Glock(remember the Sigma?) sure Taurus did with the .500 and im sure Ruger has a .500 in the works.
 
i have heard the new colts are better in this regard but the pre '95 or so colt 1911s i have had always required some work to function correctly with any hollowpoint ammo, some req'd a lot of work.

kimbers work imho.

i guess S&W revolvers are pretty good (kinda high $$ now though) but i have never liked there autos much, i have had bad luck with several of them (ie mod 39, 59, sigma) maybe they are better now, but imho kahr has them beat for a edc 9MM/.40. my neighbor has 2 performance center autos (shorty forty, and ??) that work really well but they arent cheap either. the last 'J' frame snubs i looked at (2 yrs ago) had terrible triggers, and were very high $$ to boot, triggers were so bad i was worried my wife would fire it single vs double action, went with a kahr PM9 instead, the older 'J' s didnt seem so bad, but nothing like my pre'70 detective special, not at all.

other than 1911s colt doesnt really make anything i gotta have, not right now anyway, there AR15s are good.
 
Ripper, I was not able to shoot too many out of the box 1911's. I once had a Colt Government model that was totally stock and it would stovepipe every so often. I got rid of it years ago, when I was a student and needed money. A few years later, I had some money, but not a whole lot and I wanted a new gun. I was thinking 1911, but I didn't want one I had to send out to a gunsmith for tuning up, like my old one needed. I talked with lots of people online and at gunshops and read a lot of reviews online. The general opinion about out of the box 1911's was that you can get a winner or one that needs a little work and it is a crap shoot. Most gunshops aren't going to let you send a couple hundred rounds through a gun to find out if it has any hangups. The quality control for most 1911 manufacturers will allow some ones that need to be tuned through, and most people modify them anyway, so that is not bad. The consensus was that Sig had much stricter quality control and the odds of getting one that needed some work were smaller. I could have grabbed a Springfield or Colt 1911 and maybe got a good one; or I could have got one that needed throat polishing, new magazines, changed springs, a new ejector and any of the other things most people end up doing to 1911's. I don't have the money to go that route right now. I wanted to buy a gun that I would not have to tune up. The Sig has provided with that, but I do want a 1911. I like them better, and when I have the money, that will be what I get.
 
Bobwhite,
Your reply was very articulate, thank you. I hope that when you get your 1911 you are as fortunate as I have been with the ones I have owned. Enjoy that SIG; they are nice pistols:)
Regards,
Greg
 
Hey Dave,

I know lots of people that don't like S & W so its no problem. And yes I wish they'd never made the Sigma, that is a complete embarrassment. BTW if a Glock had a supported chamber and a manual safety or grip safety I think it would be the perfect gun.

A few guys have mentioned some questions that I think I can answer. Older Colts did have a problem with hollowpoints, but there is no problem with hollowpoints in their newer ones, must have changed something but I am not sure what they changed. Overall QC at COLT and Springfield is very good (Springfield guns can be rough but they function well) and the SW1911 looks very promising you don't stand much of a chance of buying a bad 1911 from any of these three, Kimber is good too, but high. Much of the reliability issues which are oftern exaggerated with the 1911 are with OLD guns that can't cycle hollowpoints, remeber a 1911 is the oldest pistol design still made and old ones jam on hollowpoints bc they didn't exist way back when it was originally designed. Modern 1911s from quality manufacturers don't have this prob.

Regarding S&W autos, the guns the poster mentioned were all "2nd generation" guns (can tell bc there are 3 digits in the model number). The more modern "3rd generation" guns (those with 4 digits in the model number, and a higher price tag) are among the best pistols on the market and have no reliability problems. Also MOST "2nd generation" guns I've seen work fine with hardball but can become jam-o-matics with certain hollowpoint designs.

Hope this long posts helps
 
Spydiefan04,

"BTW if a Glock had a supported chamber and a manual safety or grip safety I think it would be the perfect gun."

Have you tried the Springfield XD series?

If you have'nt heard about them:
They are much like the Glock but have the grip safety.

Cheers,
Allen.
 
Yeah, I've heard of them, but only seen one, do they have a supported chamber and are they good? I like the grip safety and design, would want one in .40 or .45 (preferred). BTW I don't yet own a polymer gun, but like the looks of the XD.
 
Honestly, I don't know about the supported chamber, but I have shot the XD-9 (9mm) for hours without any trouble at all.
And I've shot it in .40S&W too.
The guys at Springfield definitely did they're homework.

Having said that...I still prefer the Glock to the Springfield.

I don't see why you think a manual safety or grip safety is needed--but to each his own.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
Used to a 1911, the only DA pistols I REALLY like are the HK USP Variant 1 and the Beretta 92/96 (man do I wish they made it in a .45).
 
allenC said:
Spydiefan04,

"BTW if a Glock had a supported chamber and a manual safety or grip safety I think it would be the perfect gun."

Have you tried the Springfield XD series?

If you have'nt heard about them:
They are much like the Glock but have the grip safety.

Cheers,
Allen.
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The absence of these features is what makes me prefer a Glock to the XD.
 
A Glock is a Glock. Safeties/Grip safeties are solutions to non-existant problems. Finger on, ready to fire, finger off, safe. I don´t get any simpler than that. Relying on safeties makes you stop thinking.

Having said that I agree that the combnation of European Handguns and American knives make nice couples.

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Revierler said:
A Glock is a Glock. Safeties/Grip safeties are solutions to non-existant problems. Finger on, ready to fire, finger off, safe. I don´t get any simpler than that. Relying on safeties makes you stop thinking.
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Nonsense. No one serious about guns 100% relies on a safety to prevent a discharge. We all treat firearms as though they were loaded regardless.

I have done a lot of security work, and work with the local law enforcement. The most important aspect of a safety is not just that it gives one more failsafe in case one 'stops thinkin' or the gun should end up being dropped, it mainly provides for a level of safety when someone OTHER than oneself falls into posession of a firearm. Whether it is children, thieves, or an assailant. Few 1911's are used against their owners, the same with S&W's. But MANY Glock have - mainly against policemen. The safety on a 1911, though effortless and automatic after experience, is difficult to discern to the uninitiated. And as Emann has demonstrated, it's difficult for even some semi-experienced users.

As for the Glock - it relies on 3 safeties - a trigger safety to prevent discharge in case it falls, a half cock mechanism to prevent the same, and a passive firing pin block. However, unlike the 1911 design, with all safeties engage, the Glock will fire when the trigger is depressed - the 1911 requires two safeties to be disengaged before it will fire.

Does this ever happen? I had a psychotic girlfriend that turned my 1911 on me once. She turned out to be severely bipolar and had stopped taking her medication. She never informed me that she was not sane, nor did she ever tell me she was taking medication. In any case, the thumb safety saved my life. Had it been a Glock, I may not be here.

WYK
 
I own two pistols, a Kimber TLE II and a Glock 17. I shoot the Kimber a little bit better; probably due to the extra weight and nicer trigger. The Kimber also has a better slide to frame fit, but it costs twice as much as my Glock. There isn't a lot of difference in accuracy between the two guns. Unless you are already a good shooter, you probably couldn't tell any difference. If I had to choose one to carry, it would be the Glock due to the fact that it does not have an external safety. I have never had any type of failure with either pistol, but I prefer the Glock because of it's simplicity. The USA dominates the 1911 and revolver market, but that's about it. If I had to choose something other than a Glock, I would probaby get a Sig or an H&K.
 
You're wrong if you only guessed the Springfield. Both are American made.
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FWIW Springfields are not made in USA. Their 1911s are made by IMBEL in Brazil and XDs are made in Croatia.
 
I have'nt heard of "MANY" glocks being taken from a police officer and used against him.
This sounds like the typical anti-Glock unsubstantiated statement.
If you look back at all the handguns ever used by police, it's probably the officer's own revolver that has been turned him the most.
Does that make revolvers unsafe?
No.

This has already been argued a thousand times by folks alot more knowledgable about handguns than myself, and the result is always the same:
The Glock is a reliable, accurate, durable, and SAFE weapon.
And it aint going away anytime soon.

Allen.
 
allenC said:
I have'nt heard of "MANY" glocks being taken from a police officer and used against him.
This sounds like the typical anti-Glock unsubstantiated statement.
If you look back at all the handguns ever used by police, it's probably the officer's own revolver that has been turned him the most.
Does that make revolvers unsafe?
No.

This has already been argued a thousand times by folks alot more knowledgable about handguns than myself, and the result is always the same:
The Glock is a reliable, accurate, durable, and SAFE weapon.
And it aint going away anytime soon.

Allen.
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I'm not anti Glock. Nor am I overly sensitive and overly defensive when people say anything negative about any particular firearm. I have literally used them all in my security experience and in competition or recreation.

According to the FBI, dozens of Glocks have been used against police officers, and dozens have accidentally discharged and according to police reports dozens have kaboomed. Two of the officers I knew personally. One in Richmond, CA and the other in Los Angelas, CA. I know a Richmond Detective that switched from a G-17 to a 1911 specifically for that reason. To date the local LE Agencies here have never had a 1911 used against one of their officers. Statistically, an officer has about a 17% chance of having their wepaons used against them according to the FBI Uniform Crime Report. There are tens of thousands of officers in the U.S. alone, with nearly half of those armed with Glocks. You can do the math.
As I stated previously, I own several Glocks. I also own several revolvers. I prefer a 1911 because it has a proven track record, not only in combat and police duty, but in my own experiences. You can chose whatever you like and ignore experience and real world data. That's your prerogative.

http://www.pbase.com/wyk/guns

As far as revolvers being unsafe - they are less safe than 1911's, but about as safe as a Glock.

There is a reason why the 1911 is always in a different class than other service pistols for competition's sake. IDPA is a good example. The design is superior to any other firearm out there. It is the finest combat handgun ever created, and nearly 100 years after it's introduction nothing has really come close. You'll have to get used to seeing them on Spec Ops teams, in upper rank competition, and in open class and 'enhanced' classes because they have a huge advantage over other pistols. It's not that Glocks are bad - they're great guns. They just aren't the greatest. ;)

WYK
 
Eager said:
FWIW Springfields are not made in USA. Their 1911s are made by IMBEL in Brazil and XDs are made in Croatia.
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Some Springfield guns, and some Springfield frames are made in Brazil. Not all. The XD was developed in Croatia and is only marketed by Springfield.

WYK
 
"According to the FBI, dozens of Glocks have been used against police officers, and dozens have accidentally discharged and according to police reports dozens have kaboomed. Two of the officers I knew personally. One in Richmond, CA and the other in Los Angelas, CA. I know a Richmond Detective that switched from a G-17 to a 1911 specifically for that reason."

So you're saying that, according to the FBI, at a minimum there have been 24 cases?
I doubt this very much.
BUT even it it is true, I would say those police are blaming the weapon for their inability to maintain control over their weapons.
And criminals use all types of weapons too--you might be surprised at just how many know how to disengage the thumb-safety.

"I prefer a 1911 because it has a proven track record, not only in combat and police duty, but in my own experiences. You can chose whatever you like and ignore experience and real world data. That's your prerogative."

If it's what you like then use it by all means.
I'm not knocking the 1911, I think it's a fine handgun, but the Glock has also been proven many many times over.
Like you said yourself: tens of thousands of officers, and half armed with Glocks...it has been well proven.


"The design is superior to any other firearm out there. It is the finest combat handgun ever created, and nearly 100 years after it's introduction nothing has really come close"

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion....


Allen.
 
For me, I just want the very best tool for my purposes. As it happens, as a result of that desire, my knife (Sebenza) comes from Idaho and my gun (Sig Sauer) from Germany... or atleast the manufacturer originates in Germany. My particular model (229/40) was made in New Hampshire. I guess technically I am USA all the way. ;) Seriously though if they started making better knives or guns on Mars then I would get mine there, although I bet overnight shipping would be very expensive. :D
 
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