ABS Forum???

Originally posted by Darby
I don't think some of you understand. What Anthony is suggesting is a forum where the ABS makers and collectors can communicate at anytime. IT WOULD BE LIKE AN ON-GOING KNIFE SHOW! That appeals to me. I talk to makers just about everyday...some people don't have that luxerey; time being a factor. The makers could post their latest work or idea and WE wouldn't have to wait till the next show to see or hear about it. THAT APPEALS TO ME!

I went to the Blade Show for the first time last year. THE BEST PART OF IT FOR ME WAS THE FELLOWSHIP WITH THE MAKERS; not the knives! But remember...I COLLECT PEOPLE! ;)

Anyway, I could be wrong, (sometimes I am) but I think you would have more ABS makers participate if it was an ABS forum. I mean, I live in a house, but I don't go to home improvement shows.:D
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Darby,

The Custom forum used to be this way before a few makers took advantage of the openness and posted merely for their own gain. The ensuing mess made most makers feel unwelcome as virtually any post could be construed to be 'commercial'. Collectors were left to talk amongst themselves.
I agree with what you are trying to do, however, it should not be done at the expense of those who do not forge and/or belong to the ABS. It shouldn't be done at the expense of those who have contributed here for years in the hopes that some new ABS members *might* join and STAY. Also, I don't believe it requires its own forum. I write all of this as an ABS member myself.
Darby, you are moderator here now. Why not work to open it back up for everyone?
BTW, I enjoyed your article on Vince Evans.
 
Hi Brett, I do like to see all the views being put forward by members of the ABS. Personally I think this forum would be good for the ABS and good for BladeForums, but it does seem that many disagree with me. Though I would love to see this forum come to be, there will certainly be no hard feelings on my part if it doesn't.
 
Brett, this may surprise you but, I didn't join the ABS till today! "THEY" have been on me to join for a while. I had always thought that I supported them enough!;)

Why do you think I had asked some makers to join? TO MAKE THIS FORUM MORE COMPELLING! I want this to be a forum for everyone.PERIOD! BUT, I can see how a forum titled "ABS forum" would bring in more people. COLLECTORS as well as MAKERS!

I don't own this site, nor do I have a say in what Kevin decides to do; just an opinion, like yourself. If you remember...when someone posted their NEW knife and gave a "story" on it, I would commend them in the hope that others would do the same! Randy and I discussed this when we first started as moderators! I'm not complaining....just trying to make a point. ME PERSONALLY,(and I am only one person here of many) would like to read more PERSONNAL stories of knives AND THE MAKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have tried to set an example of what I think would and will bring more interest to this forum!

We've all stated OUR opinions; let's let Spark decide what Spark is going to do. In the mean time...let's make THIS forum all it can be. PLEASE,(I know very few makers compared to all there is) contact the people (collectors and makers) that you think could contribute to US ALL and ask them to participate.

Good Day!:)
 
Personally, I have yet to hear from any ABS-official type individual who is willing to step up to the plate and say:

1. Yes, I feel we should have a forum on BFC
2. I, or someone else official in ABS will Moderate it
3. These would be the benefits: xxx xxx xxx"

Seems to be a couple key ingredients lacking, folks. Without a clear need, driving focus, and most important, persistant traffic & moderators, I'm reluctant to open any new forum. I hate seeing them open, get a flurry of activity, then die on the vine. I will not open a ABS forum without someone from ABS as a moderator.

Kevin
 
Originally posted by Spark
Seems to be a couple key ingredients lacking, folks. Without a clear need, driving focus, and most important, persistant traffic & moderators, I'm reluctant to open any new forum. I hate seeing them open, get a flurry of activity, then die on the vine. I will not open a ABS forum without someone from ABS as a moderator.
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Well, I'm not an official of the ABS, but I am on Bladeforums all the time and I wouldn't mind helping moderate an ABS forum...

I really would like to see this happen.
 
Well, one thing that seems to have happened from this thread is that more people have joined the ABS. I finally joined up today as well. Only as an Associate/collector member, but since I am not a maker that is about as high as I could go.
 
FWIW, I highly recommend joining the ABS. It's a great organization, and even as a collector, you get a nifty quarterly brochure and all. Seriously, it's a great way to support the forged blade.

JD
 
Darby:

If we can teach Jerry to eat with a fork, without skinning up his face, he may be a good choice :D :D :D

A forgers forum, ABS or not, would in my mind bring some input that is not there now.
Keiths post on the Bowie #1 that got Massey,Walker,Fisk & Newton to post is an excellent example. I for one do not frequent the custom forum as much as in the past. A basic reason for this is that, as a sole authorship maker, it's broadened scope has less to interest me and indirectly also my customers.
I am personally not interested in any of the factory foums or general knife forum so I don't go there. They do serve those people who are interested in them, so are a good thing. As for dragging off posts from the custom forum, it would likely only move those specifically interested in the forged blade from one forum to the other and may bring new ones.

Worth a try I think.
 
Pete,
Not to rehash old stuff, but the Shop Talk forum probably has as many guys forging as stock removal. Some pretty good ones, I might add.
 
Hi Kit

If the collectors are not there, then many of us will not be there either. Just a hold over from the days prior to Bladeforums. Collectors are our bread and butter, without them we have to go to work. YE-GADS what am I saying, wash my mouth out with soap WORK :barf: :barf:
 
Pete,
I agree with you. I was more trying to get your expertise over on Shop for the guys just starting with the forge.
IMHO, those collectors are a pretty slick bunch and I'd wager that they lurk there more than you know :)
Anytime you can help with an answer, we'd welcome your knowledge.
 
Thanks for the warm welcome, Pete.

I still hope to see an ABS forum here and will continue to work towards that goal.
 
Pete,

Your last post has opened my eyes a bit to what is being sought from this proposed forum. An audience of collectors to entice more makers to frequent BF.C.

I haven't been here long enough to remember the trouble that happened on the Custom Forum, but IMO, maybe what's really needed is a revision of the policies there.

I agree with Kit that collectors who are interested in the forged blade are most likely frequenting the Shoptalk Forum anyway, and not making their presense known, for the simple reason that we have nothing to add to the discussion, even if we do find the topics interesting. At least that's true for me.

In any case, I don't think that alienating any segment of the knifemaking or collecting community would benefit BF.C.

-Jose
 
Keith,

I respect your opinions and feel that you're one of the bigger contributors here on BF.C. However, I fail to see why you're so adamant that we have a specifically ABS forum.

If there's a need for a forum that deals with forging, the ABS are not the only makers who make a quality forged blade. If the forum is meant to bring makers and collectors together, then why exclude the stock removal makers? Many are just as skilled and popular as makers that forge their blades.

You mentioned in a previous post that there seemed to be some animosity towards the ABS from some of the members who have posted here, but the reverse may be true in your case, and maybe you're giving them preferential treatment?

When I first took the plunge into the world of custom knives I knew I wanted a forged blade. I bought a couple of knives made by Ed Schempp and was very happy with his work. He may have been an ABS apprenticesmith at the time. Being new to knives I looked for work made by ABS Mastersmiths so I knew I would be getting exceptional, functional knives. I just didn't know any better, but once I was a bit more educated, I was disappointed with my MS purchases.

I don't mean to knock the ABS as an organization, I just want to emphasize that the focus should be on the maker, not the organization. I hope you don't take this post the wrong way, I mean you no disrespect.

-Jose
 
Hi Jose.

Having the input of the collector in the knife making process can not, IMHO, be over emphasized. As a member of the AKA (Arkansas)board I actively push for collectors to join the organization and also to accept positions on the board. As a result of the addition of cool heads like Paul Gillar( an outstanding guy in or out of knife collecting) to our board a few years ago, the ranks of the AKA continue to grow. Our February show, inspite of the economic situation and last minute relocation, was the best one we have ever had. The AKA makers are split about 50/50 stock removal & forgers. We have our ups and downs like every one else, but for the most part get on well. What it all boils down to is communications between every one involved and I think folks like Paul and Joe Smith are largely responsable for keeping those lines open.

I'm sorry you had a bad experiences with some of the MS knives. As is the case with any standard setting efforts, the ability to produce top quality may be there. Is it done every time? Sad to say, some folks just do not have the grit that drives them to excellence.
As a retired electrical contractor, I saw Master Electricians that I knew could do premium work, turn out work that was below Journeyman quality. The down side if human nature at work.
In any case, whatever you buy, knives, trucks, beans or bullets, do some checking on the maker/manufacturer and dealer. I have failed to do this in the past and have wound up with things that should have been painted lemon yellow.
Thanks for helping the makers stir the pot, makes better soup.

:) :)
 
Pete,

Good post, I agree with your comments. I'm sure the ability was there or they would not have passed the tests required to attain their MS stamps.

-Jose
 
Jose, the reason that I am so adamant about this is that I think it would be good for both BladeForums and for the ABS. The more members of this organization that we can get as contributing members of BladeForums the better as far as I am concerned and this is the best way I can see to do that. It is fine to say that the Shop Talk and Custom Knife should be enough, but I don't see that these forums have drawn many ABS members to them. Many say we should just figure out a way to bring more ABS members to these forums, but I don't see any suggestions on how we do that. If there are members out there that have some ideas as to how we can accomplish this then please put them forward, because I sure don't.

You are perfectly correct in saying that there are many none-ABS bladesmiths that are just as skilled and popular as are any of the ABS members and I would really want to see them take part in this forum as well. Hopefully this would be a forum where both ABS and non-ABS bladesmiths could intermingle. If this is impossible due to the animosity that many bladesmiths feel towards the ABS, or the other way around, then that is a real shame.

It is a forum focusing on the forged blade that would be of the greatest interest to collectors of these knives, not one that's primary focus is on the ABS as an organization.

Also Jose, your posts never show disrespect, just you providing your point of view and asking completely reasonable questions.

Anyway, next week I hope to be having discussions with folks at the ABS to see if they are even interested in taking part in such a forum. As Spark has mentioned, with them there can be no ABS forum in the first place. If there is interest from that end, I will persue this further. If not, I still think that there is room for a forum focused on forged knives.
 
I have read this thread with great interest and have kept up with it since the beginning. I am both surprised and saddened by some of the postings and glad to see other postings. I cannot and
will not say at this time whether I am for it or not. As a ABS board member I think I need to not say one way or the other on this without the board looking into it. However there are some things that I would like to say on the postings and to maybe clear some thoughts up from my perspective.

To begin if there ever is a ABS forum section it will be open to all. It would make no difference if you forge or stock removal to get in. Learning is learning. Neither hammer-head forgers or stock removal people have horns and a forked tail. Neither is out to get the other and wipe them off the face of the earth. Everyone can get along and it is essential that we do. I belong to both the ABS and the Guild as well as the AKA. Some knives are best done by one way or the other. Get on with it people, it is bickering that will tear the house down, not the method of doing the knife. If you do find a smith or a stockremoval person that says one way is much better than the other way, avoid this person. His head is closed against learning.

The Guild tried to have a forum on its own site. It did not work. My personal thoughts are that
both the ABS and the Guild would benefit from having a site here where there is already traffic. Why would you build a restaurant in the middle of the forest. You build it where there is traffic and try to increase the traffic from there. There are places if you want to sell knives already in place established here. There is a place
where you can ask how to make something,here already.

The focus of the ABS is to educate. The more ways we can reach people to do this the better we can succeed. IF there is a site here we can educate both the maker and the collector. There can be tech information here and the buyer can look and learn about what to look for when he is trying to select that special piece. Right now there are a some master smiths that do come in. Some post some just lurk. I can understand why some are hesitant to speak knowing the feelings of some of the people here and seeing before,a dog pile happening to people that post something that may not be what others want to see or read. That is not good for any group. Jose and Pete were both right about human nature. Not everyone can hit a home run each time. Sometimes life gets in the way and effects that partiular knife in some way. That too is a part of the ABS education platform. They put on hammer-ins to teach and show. This way the learning curve keeps going. Anything the ABS does or says is right out in open, if you do not understand it or confused by something please contact either a Mastersmith or a board member and prehaps they can clear up so that you will understand it.

The makers have to test extensively on their own to learn to produce the best product they can. They have to also learn how to keep up with business practices so that they can continue to make their knives. Being on the internet can be a two edged sword at times but can be a great benefit to all if done right. Fussing with each simply will split even futher any existing forums.

Not all good bladesmiths belong to the ABS and some really good bladesmiths are members but attain no ranking. I call some of them to ask questions when I need to learn. They would certainly be welcome anytime so it would save me money on phone calls. I would like a good discussion on this to go futher.
jf
 
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