ABS Forum???

I've watched this thread very intensely but have held my tongue. I always liked my Grandma's advice of: "Never miss a good opportunity to keep your mouth shut."

But I'd like to add a few things anyway.

First off, please understand that I am a very big supporter of the ABS and the forged blade...I am an apprenticesmith now, but in due time will hold a MS stamp. So this is all very important to me.

I know without doubt that what spurred this on was the thread in which smiths like Jim Walker, Roger Massey, and Ron Newton added their thoughts. I was very excited to see them post as well! I greatly admire and respect these men.

However, I can also very understandably see the sentiments of those like Kit Carson (a man I also greatly admire and respect!) where he doesn't want to add to the confusion of more forums and segregation.

Would I like to see an ABS forum? That's a difficult one to answer. But what I can see that would very easily remedy this would be to try to add input from more high level makers in both the shop-talk and custom forum. Maybe even add "ABS and Guild" as sub-headings to shop-talk's heading.

I've read posts here where people are saying that collectors don't post in shop-talk, but that they would post in an ABS forum. I don't really understand what would suddenly change their perspective on posting. There is absolutely NO reason that ANY collector could not come into shop-talk and ask questions or get involved in running threads. Is there?????

I know for a fact that MANY very high level makers, both smiths and stock-removal makers read these threads and never post because they are worried about the possible negative effects...bashing and stoning when they would only try to help out.

The internet is a very fantastic tool and a very dangerous one all in the same hand. That's what keeps so many makers from posting on the forums. Would adding a new forum with the title of ABS make them feel differently? I'm asking...please let us know yay or nay and why.

So while I would definitely enjoy the traffic or more smiths, I would also like more traffic from stock-removal makers AND collectors. There is a wealth of information to be learned and shared by ALL. So what is the best way to accomplish that??? That would be a much better argument in my very very humble opinion. :) :) :)

Nick
 
What I find is that the forum headers are a bit confusing, esp. Galery, Custom Knife, and Shop Talk - Bladesmithing. I think BF would benefit from changing the last two to something broader, like "Custom knife collecting" and "Custom knife making". I'm esp. keen on a more inclusive shop talk forum because a lot of the knifemaking challenges apply to both steel dust junkies and hammerheads.

I also think that one way for BF to attract more top makers is to offer them something they value. Maybe a better For Sale forum? Maybe they should get additional posting privileges? I can see that becoming a can of worms though. I suspect quite a few makers simply don't know about the forum, and the benefit they can get from it.

Swordforum has been quite succesful attracting, from time to time, some top level makers, including ABS MS Don Fogg, Howard Clark, K. Cashen, etc, and one thing that makes the "shop talk" forum effective is that it's targeted: only makers are supposed to post. I'm not sure this is a "one size fits all" solution, but I'm pretty sure that one thing that turns makers away are questions coming, again and again, from beginners ("I'm looking for an apprenticeship", "is ATS34 a good beginner bladesmith' steel",...) BF seems to get less of those than SFI, though.

JD
 
Joss, thanks for your earlier mention of Don Fogg's bladesmithing forum. I went and checked it out. Not tremendously active, but it does have some very good information. Don's forum seems to be another one that is mostly makers asking questions and has little input from collectors. I noticed you have been taking part there for a couple of years. Going to Don's web site gave me a chance to look at that wonderful stag Bowie and I would like to thank you for that as well.

I don't think that changing the names of the current forums would really help attract more makers. If there was a way to somehow combine the two forums so that there was a good mix of discussions on both making and collecting, then maybe, but I really don't know if that could be done or if there would be any interest in doing so. One thing that I do think has to happen on the custom knife forum is that makers have to be allowed more leeway as to posting pictures of their work, but maybe this is something that should be addressed in another thread.
 
Hey now that is a Great Idea:cool:

Only how about just changing the subheadings on the custom forum to something like..A place for the collectors to interact with each other...Then shop talk to a place for the beggining maker to ask questions and learn the art of making a knife...Then adding a new forum and call it:

BF'S Symposium forum

A place were the collector and maker can discuss the finer points and advance teqniques and ideas about knife making..

This way no makers feel alianated because of the way they make a knife ( I know allot of guys that grind only because of there location or residence wouldn't allow a fire and metal bashing sounds) and the ABS would'nt have to aprove it to have there name on it either.But maybe the master Smiths and others could join in to discuss the finer and more advanced teqniques without having to wade through the newbie questions unless they want to go to the other part of the forum and see if they could help out.

Just a thought..
Bruce
 
Guys
This is some good dialog going which is what we need. Postive input.
 
What seems to be the fly in the ointment, IMHO, is the use of the title,"ABS". Every time that organizations name comes up, the hair on the back of some folks neck stand on end.
Had we been talking about a forging forum, the waves would not have been nearly as high.
Nice try guys. Don't give up hope, the Balisong boys and the Knife Throwers have one, Forgers may be next. :)
 
Pete,
Then someone would have to have a Stock Removal Makers forum, and maybe a Tactical Knife Makers forum and on and on. I just don't understand why.
:confused:
 
I will definately agree that we could use a new forum about advanced knifemaking,for either forging or stock removal..with the same leaniency as the shop talk forum to show off new work without getting into trouble..This way the more advanced makers wouldn't be bored with the same old question being asked that have been asked a millions time before,Even though I feel a new maker should still get the same attention as the last new maker got and have his/her questions asked.But it woould be nice to get in on some questions and answers that the new maker wouldn't understand.
Bruce
 
Bruce
I would be left out then as there is so much that I am new at now. I am glad guys took the time to work with me as a newbie and continue to do so. I try to repay it by doing the same. Some of the neatest tricks I learned came from folks just starting out. They bring a fresh and often different prespecitve to the boards. This is good.
 
Ok, I have come to a rather large realization here. What I am looking for is a way to get as many of the ABS guys as possible to start posting here. Whatever way we can accomplish this would in my opinion be benefit for BladeForums as a whole.

Attracting more makers as a whole would be an outstanding accomplishment and one that should we should strive for. Suggestions from makers as to what would make BladeForums more of a place that they would like to hang out would be greatly appreciated.

I am still thinking that an ABS forum would be a good thing and have contacted Don Fogg to see if there is any interest from that end. I will keep everyone informed as to what his thoughts are.
 
This would be a forum about bladesmithing, geared towards the collector.

This would not be a how-to Q&A forum.
Like we have been relentlessly reminded, we have shop talk for that.

All photos could still be posted in the gallery, but I am afraid, as a collector, the more "commercial" the better when it comes to any type of forum dealing with knives.

Maybe the custom forum should be seperated into two forums
(forged/stock removal)

Why not?

The forum would not have to be the "official" ABS forum though it will be so popular that it will be the de-factor forum in short time.
 
Anthony,
Your first and second paragraphs are where I get confused. If a maker isn't talking about how he made it, what materials he used, or what he wants for it, what else would be geared toward the collector?
 
I seemed to have missed getting across what I had in mind.
First of all, we have lost Collectors and makers posts and we need to get them back. What we now have is not bringing them, so must IMHO
try something else.
My drifting away from Blade Forums started when the scope of the Custom Forum broadened. It had been the prime draw for me and, while here,I also looked in and posted on the Shop talk forum. What the forums named is of little concern to me. The scope of it however is.

Forgers, for the most part, produce knives one at a time with little or no help from outside. Many Stock removal maker do the same. Those of us that do it this way, are not interested in the knives that are mass produced. Not that they are not good knives, some of them are excellent. We just got tired of sifting thru posts about them and go elsewhere. The Collectors that buy from me don't like to sift posts any more than I do.
To return this area of knives to Blade Forums will take more than a tweak here an there. A new forum, whatever it's called, is about all that will do it.

Kit
If the makers that left come back, They will also look in on Shop Talk. It's the closest thing to what we do, but without the presence of the collectors as our sounding board most will not return.

Hope I have not added mud to the water when trying to clear it up.
 
Kit,
here are some of the more popular threads on shop talk currently

"kydex eyelet source"
"Prec. ground ss"
"Building a forge?"
"Filework"
"416 SS Tubing"
"Need thermocouple help"

These are not really topics or most collectors are interested in, sorry.

I want to read stories about and by the makers that I collect.
Cutting contests, hammer-ins, knife shows, and famous pieces that they have produced.

Instead of scattering those posts over several forums, I want them in one forum.

Just my preference.
 
All makers,

Look, without people like me... YOU HAVE NOTHING, but a collection of YOUR OWN KNIVES!!!!!!!!!! Will ANYONE disagree with me on this? I know, you'll have makers that will say, "I would make knives if No ONE bought them; the ALLURE, the ROMANCE,...sounds good, but (STUFF)!!!!!!!!!!!!!;) If they loved (IT) that much, they wouldn't sell them. Listen, (my opinion only), it would grow a forum,(COLLECTORS AS WELL AS MAKERS!) if like one day a week, the MAKERS could post a knife with specs...NO PRICES!!!!!!!!!!!! and NO FEED BACK or post from another member) with contact information only. HUMAN NATURE, the makers would participate more and the collectors would too! They could be deleted the next day.

Anyway, this bull reminds me of what I saw take place a few years ago... my Church splitting!!!!!!!!!!!:(
I live in a SMALL town...with two Churches, our Church began to grow!!!!!!!! THANK GOD! The OLD TIMERS, because they had been around for FORTY YEARS!!!!!!!!!!! got concerned! WHY, you ask? The NEWCOMERS began to take an active row in the Church! (POWER) It wasen't long before the deacons decided it was time for the preacher to go!(POWER) Well, someone took it upon himself to get the PEOPLE to see what the BIBLE had to say about the deacons POWER! It wasn't long before there was enough people to out vote the deacons FAMILY'S! (POWER) (REMEMBER, it's a little town.) To make a long story shorter, the preacher stayed! The deacons and their families LEFT!(own their own accord) THE CHURCH GREW!!!!!!!!!!!! :)(REAL POWER)
That is a GOOD thing by the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!(in my opinion, of COURSE);)

I know, this isn't a Church! BUT, WHAT IS THE CONCERN ABOUT A NEW FORUM????????? If Spark, THE OWNER, doesn't like the way a new forum is going... HE can turn the switch back! HELLO! What I'm saying is...HERE, SPARK HAS POWER! PERIOD, NOT YOU, NOT ME! Be honest, what is the REAL FEAR here? Could it be POw...?;)


GOOD DAY!

I love debates though...
 
Anthony,
I've read all those thing in your 4th paragraph here in this forum in the last month.
You really don't want to know where to get eyelets? :)
If you like filework, and I assume you do, wouldn't it be good to go into that thread and tell the new maker what you like to see in filework, as a collector?
Gouge posted about his 2nd annual hammerin at Trackrock Campground in north Georgia. I'm sure they would enjoy having a collector attend.
Several makers posted about the Oregon show that's coming up.

Still seems to me that this forum, if it were tweaked a little by you guys, and the Shop Forum meets the requirements.
 
Originally posted by Darby
Be honest, what is the REAL FEAR here? Could it be POw...?;)
Click to expand...

Cheap shot Darby.:rolleyes:


Fix the custom forum if you want maker/collector interaction.
 
Darby,
I have no fear of a new forum. My point is, and has been, fix THIS one and you have WHAT you are looking for. If this one can't be fixed, it needs to go bye-bye.
Change is good. :)
 
Hi all,

I want to comment that there has been a lot of good posts and feedback since my last reply.

I've been trying to think of a solution that would make everyone happy but I haven't had much luck (no surprise :D). My thoughts at the moment are that maybe the custom forum should be allowed to become more commercial with the stipulation that those posters have a paid membership.

It's still my opinion that a new forum is not needed unless someone can come up with a description that's not covered by an existing forum. The process of forging is inside the scope of the Shoptalk forum. There isn't so much traffic in those forums that it's difficult to keep track of the topics. If there's too many newbie or repetive questions it's simple enough to just skip it and look for something that suits your interests.

What's the problem with experienced makers asking more complex or advanced questions in the Shoptalk forum as it exists? There are makers of the highest order there sharing their knowledge and I'm ASSuming they would be able to provide suitable answers. Would a new forum provide a venue for these questions, or would they remain unasked? I don't see how not having this new forum is inhibiting questions from being asked, although I may be wrong, so this new forum will pretty much just redirect exisiting discussions.

Maybe it would be more appropriate for the ABS board members to name BF.C it's de facto forum, and let their members know about the Custom and Shoptalk forums, even if it isn't specifically named after the organization? I don't have anything against the ABS, but for an organization to have it's own forum on BF.C it would seem to be more appropriate for it to be in the Makers & Manufacturers forums, although not quite... :confused:

If these makers do make their way to BF.C it might be a bit easier to gauge wether a new forum is needed based on the traffic that's generated.

-Jose
 
Originally posted by Kit Carson

[Gouge posted about his 2nd annual hammerin at Trackrock Campground in north Georgia. I'm sure they would enjoy having a collector attend.

Hiya Kit!

Several collectors were there at the last one, and displayed some of their collections. There was a lot of interest from some of the makers in both the custom pieces and the antiques. These were not-for-sale displays.

We hope more folks will show up this time.


Regards,

Pat
Click to expand...
 
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