Advice on knife making as a future career.

A

Andy Johnston

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Feb 10, 2014
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Hey guys. I would like to preface this by saying that I might ask some questions that I am not sure I am supposed to ask regarding selling and stuff, though I believe I am fine as I am not trying to sell nor am I asking about selling here specifically. Sorry if I ask anything I shouldn't. Moving on. I am currently in college going for a bachelors in fisheries and wildlife management. I am having a difficult time in school and I have hated it since I got out of high school. I have transferred schools a few times to try and find the right fit. I did well in community college but I moved on as I thought I wanted a bachelors that they couldn't provide. My fiancee and I also had a kid that we had to give up for adoption not long after I had transferred away from her. I ended up withdrawing that semester to be with her through everything. Here I am 4 years later and my hearts just not in it anymore. I have enough credits that I plan on finishing out an associates and finding any job that pays half way decent that will take me. I know that a bachelors would benefit me more in the long run and I am sure some of you guys will say that, but my heart is not in it anymore and I am not interested in the degree I am perusing anymore.

This is where my real questions come in. I would eventually like to make knife making into my full time job. I have just gotten into it and it is the first time I have been this excited about anything in a LONG time. I don't know why I didn't stay in my metals classes in high school but I digress. I know I will not be able to sell much in the beginning, if at all. I will have to spend a lot of time just making knives for practice. Is there anything that you guys can think of that I can do to help me practice stuff? I have a few scraps that I plan on practicing my bevels on once I get my grinder, but is there any other tricks like using scraps to practice on and what not? I plan on visiting Delbert Ealy when ever humanly possible as he lives not far away from me back home. That is a huge resource at my disposal that I am very fortunate to have. With the semester (or two but hopefully not) I have left I plan on taking a blacksmithing/jewelry class and a intro to business class to help aid me on my way.

I already have some tools at my disposal but not many. I have a large file set, a couple c clamps, a filling jig, and access to a friend that has more tools but he isn't very reliable. That being said my amazing fiancee made part of our wedding registry a cash fund to go towards big tools for me to start a knife making shop. Hopefully I will be able to get a 4x6 bandsaw and a drill press with money from that. I have a grinder covered as Jeremy Barnard has offered to give me his old 2x42 on a trade for a knife I make with it. I am still blown away by that deal. I know I will need a couple vices eventually, but my friend has one for now that is currently in my possession. That being said is there any other tools that I will need to be on my way to making this a career? I know I will eventually need to upgrade the 2x42 to a 2x72, but like I said earlier I know it will be a while before I can make this my job.

I feel like I am just rambling at this point so I guess I will just ask for any possible information that anyone can give me on making knife making a full time job. I'm sure I will need to start reading a lot of books on it and learning metallurgy, looking up knife shows to go to/be in, and just all around surround myself with knife making information. If you can think of anything to give me, even if its something silly please let me know. I am really looking forward to making this a job and a huge part of my life. Thanks for all the help you guys have given me so far, it means a lot.
 
It's great that you haven't been this excited about anything in a long time. That's worth a LOT, just think of how many people really aren't interested in much of anything with value.

My advice to you would be to get work in the meantime that allows you to be comfortable enough to live, and build your shop up bit by bit. Then spend your weekends and hours after work when possible making knives as best you can, always pushing yourself to do better.

Once you have a viable shop built up for making knives at a professional level, if you are still excited about doing it as a job, and if your knives have already been selling well and to decent acclaim, and if going for it won't f your life up if you don't succeed right away, then I'd say go ahead with it.

If you do this as a job you have to protect your love for it. Don't take it for granted that because it excites you now, your feeling for it will automatically survive your HAVING to do it EVERY DAY to survive. It can, but it's hard at times. For example, I take little breaks from it from time to time and take a temporary job with a friend or in some other field of metalwork occasionally, as the opportunity arises. It helps refresh your desire to be in the shop. And, I figured out that I'm not a batch maker or a guy that wants to make customs any more. I need to always be trying something new, something interesting.

Try to find out what kind of maker YOU are. And it helps, if it's your job, to then have another hobby to replace knives now that it's no longer your hobby.
 
I am a full time maker but wont be much longer. I would say its better to make knives part time. The steady income from a job really takes the stress out of knifemaking. Having to pump out as many blades as you can to make ends meet can make you hate knifemaking in no time. Get a regular job, work nights and weekends on knives and enjoy it. You will be better off financially and have alot more room for creativity.

keep in mind that if you go full time you'll need to sell about 300 knives a year at $200 a pop just to scrape by.
 
I tried making knives full-time for a while. It has taken almost 2 years to recover, financially speaking, once I went back to carpentry work. My knifemaking hobby is just now starting to recover, it was at least a year before I had any desire to work on a knife.
I will continue making knives as long as making them is the point of doing it. I eventually realized that once selling them becomes the priority, it's a lot like a job with long hours, low pay, and no benefits except you get to keep the knives nobody else wants.
 
While I cannot attest to becoming a knife maker I can give you my experience of finishing up your bachelor’s degree. I found myself in a very similar academic situation as you. I started off at one school and transferred when I switched my major to Fisheries Management and Biology. I made it to my fourth year and like you found that my heart was not in it anymore. I had no desire to go to grad school for another two years and really did not have any ambition to try finding a job in the field. I decided to stick it out and get my degree just to finish it up. I figured it would be a huge waste of money to have gone that far and just stop. I ended up going back to school and getting an associate’s degree in a completely different field and finding a job in that field. While my bachelor’s degree has no direct relation to my current career, I have been told by a few of my bosses that having that degree is why I was promoted as well as being a good worker. It was something extra that other people did not have. Not saying that getting the bachelor’s degree is going to be a sure fire way to get a head, but it most defiantly will not hurt. If I was in your situation and semi close to getting a degree I would stick it out. Not to mention at the same time you can do some knife making and make sure it’s what you really want to do in life and more importantly if you would be able to make a living doing it.
 
The best advice on the subject (for me at least) came from Garry Miller over at KnifeDogs.com and is my signature line: "There is alot to keep up with when you go full time, being your own boss can be a real let down. You find out how many people you really work for: your suppliers, power company and clients. It can be a real strain on an artistic mind." - Gary Miller (Fellow Knife Dog)
 
KalEl said:
keep in mind that if you go full time you'll need to sell about 300 knives a year at $200 a pop just to scrape by.
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Just scraping by at $60,000/year? I'd love to be "scraping" by those standards. My wife and I currently live on less than a third of that per year while I'm in school. Again, the definition of "scraping by" eludes me in the context of $60,000/year.

I suppose if sales were erratic it might be harder from time to time...still looks awesome.
 
Any business should be started with a financial plan, you may not need $60,000 but what do you need, how much can you sell a knife for (forums a great place to see some pricing), what is the cost of supplies to make the knife. Then you will know how many each week. Based on that, what equipment will you need. You need to plan your progress, one a week, two a week, ten a week and then look to go full time.

BYW the $60,000 is probably more like $30,000 in the pocket once expenses are paid, I wonder how much per hour??
 
InSpectre Gadget said:
Just scraping by at $60,000/year? I'd love to be "scraping" by those standards. My wife and I currently live on less than a third of that per year while I'm in school. Again, the definition of "scraping by" eludes me in the context of $60,000/year.

I suppose if sales were erratic it might be harder from time to time...still looks awesome.
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I would think half or more of that disappears in overhead. Materials, tools, equipment, power, etc eats up a huge chunk.
 
InSpectre Gadget said:
Just scraping by at $60,000/year? I'd love to be "scraping" by those standards. My wife and I currently live on less than a third of that per year while I'm in school. Again, the definition of "scraping by" eludes me in the context of $60,000/year.

I suppose if sales were erratic it might be harder from time to time...still looks awesome.
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60,000 is not the net it's the gross. Then divide what you net by the number of hours you put in and you most likely are barely making minimum wage , but at least you love what you do. I hope you like beans and rice.:D
 
InSpectre Gadget said:
Just scraping by at $60,000/year? I'd love to be "scraping" by those standards. My wife and I currently live on less than a third of that per year while I'm in school. Again, the definition of "scraping by" eludes me in the context of $60,000/year.

I suppose if sales were erratic it might be harder from time to time...still looks awesome.
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You forgot that 60000 is before taxes, cost of materials for the knives, as well as tools to make them, other business expenses, not having any company provided insurance, annnnd in addition to that no 401k, so unless this person plans on working forever they need to put more of there own money away for retirement. It sounds like a lot but it really isn't as much as it seems.

Not saying it isn't doable, but it is most defiantly not living high on the hog.
 
I don't make knives, but I wonder how many makers are able to produce and sell 25 + knives a month. I can't imagine there are a whole bunch.
 
I believe Salem was very correct. Go with where you want to go, but use your success by building what you need to allow you to get there. And one other big consideration is your family. Financial difficulties can easily destroy that too. Frank
 
InSpectre Gadget said:
Just scraping by at $60,000/year? I'd love to be "scraping" by those standards. My wife and I currently live on less than a third of that per year while I'm in school. Again, the definition of "scraping by" eludes me in the context of $60,000/year.

I suppose if sales were erratic it might be harder from time to time...still looks awesome.
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That $60,000 is revenue, not profit.

It's an important concept.

Materials, supplies, power, income tax, EVERYTHING you spend has to come out of that.


A piece of wood can cost you $50 or $60 not including getting it shipped to you.
 
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For what it's worth, I am regarded by most as being very successful in my career in the computer industry. I got my Associates degree in Business Data Processing in 1980, and never took another day of formal schooling after that. The BA is a fine degree, if you have the money and desire to get one. But honestly, I doubt it buys you much these days. Mostly, I am successful because I have a lot of experience... much of which I built by working hard and learning on the job. Something about being paid to learn appealed to me more than paying others to teach me.

Anyway, all I'm saying is don't despair. The lack of a 4 year degree isn't a death knell for your career. It's simply a stepping stone... and believe me, there are other stones in the river to step on.
 
I am well aware that I wont be living like a king. The material costs, costs of booths at knife shows, website costs, all of that comes out of the profit. My current Ideal plan is to get back into a Department of Natural Resources job that's full time through spring and summer and then have my time off to do knife stuff, until I can do otherwise that is. My fiancee and I have talked about it a lot and she knows that once I do decide to make it a full time job that it would probably not be a lot of money. She is currently going for her masters in English and I am sure will have a great job when she is done. Shes probably the hardest working person I know. As far as my degree goes...I am not close to a bachelors. If I was it wouldn't even be a question I would finish it and go, but I have another 4 years just because of how my credits lay out and certain ones don't transfer from other schools. As far as a family goes I think that it will just be my fiancee and I for at least a long long time. I would like to have kids again someday, but after what we've gone though she is not sure that she would want to again and I can't blame her. I also wouldn't be completely upset if I didn't have kids, other than the fact that I am the last boy in my family with the Johnston last name. That's life though and you gotta work with the cards your dealt.

Some of the feedback is a little discouraging, but a lot of it I already knew such as the money and it not being as fun when you go full time. It obviously wont be all fun and games once its my sole income, but at that point it is becoming my job in the most literal sense of the meaning. It wont be a hobby and I wont be able to treat it like one. I have thought of a couple of other jobs that I thought I might want to do at some point such as hunting or fishing guides, but ultimately I want to be able to go out on opening morning myself and hunt or fish. I feel like I would have a LITTLE more control on what I can do with knife making and I also get more enjoyment out of it. Creating something brings a lot of pride for me, and I don't think that would ever go away, not to mention I haven't had a clean shot at a deer in 8 years now :/. Thanks for all the feedback so far guys. Gives me a lot to think about.
 
For me, knife making is a awesome second job, one year, hopefully soon, I'll make a profit. Salem is a pretty smart guy, he gave good advice, if you ask me.
 
If you haven't yet, go to the knifemakers for sale area. I am astounded at the prices that many of the fixed blades sell for. Now check out the prices for utilitarian knives; Moras, Green River, Old Hickory, Victorinox, Opinel, and etc.. I have met a number of makers that have called it quits after several years. I believe knife making is and will be one of the hardest professions to make a living at.
 
My thoughts might be a bit different from a lot of you guys. But with that said just think of my advice as a different perspective.
Without years of successful knife making experience you will fail if you try to make knives as a substantial portion of your living income.
There is a lot more involved than just making knives. I wouldn't even consider it until you have at least a couple years of making knives and selling everything you make quickly. Selling what you make is a big portion of the work.

I would suggest developing your skills enough where you would be a desirable employee of someone, or a company making knives.
When your skills are good enough that you are hire-able and you find a job making knives, then try to get involved in everything so you get a feel for the back end of running the business. I would suggest at least 2 years of working on someone else's dime before considering going on your own.
By then you should be able to understand a lot of what is involved in running a business as well as having developed the skills to make a good quality knife in a timely manner.
 
I guess I should clarify that I don't plan on doing this any time soon. I thought I had said that I will need time to practice my skills, which is very obvious cause I am only on my first couple knives. I am considering moving back home for the summer where I know I can get a job and this would also put me 15 minutes from Mr. Ealy. He has already told me that I am more than welcome to come over as long as he has the time in his schedule. If I can spend the summer talking to him once a week or more then I think I will be off to a great start, but obviously it will take me years and years to get to a level where I can even BEGIN to consider doing it as my sole income providing job.
 
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