AFCK? AFCK? Enough already!

Mr. Talmadge-

I was actually interested in reading the rest of these posts- until I read yours. You say my "me against the AFCK zealots strawman is getting a bit tiresome". I think this is a pretty condescending attitude. I understand you are supposed to be some kind of guru or whatever- I can appreciate your time and experience- but it stops there. I don't care who you are, if you don't like the fact that I am so naive as to not see the glory of the almighty AFCK, too bad for you.

I wouldn't classify my dismissal of this knife as casual; and maybe not even a dismissal after all. Read the rest of the posts-I asked for some more info, and some nice people responded with some good info. Because you appararently have the sixth sense to spot a great knife upon initial examination, doesn't help ME to choose at all. And I certainly don't consider myself "being stuck having to carry one" when I purchase any knife. That's the fun part. If it sucks, oh well, there are other ones to check out- life goes on.

I think this has spawned a good discussion, but for some reason, you don't like my opinions. That's ok, I don't like yours either. There are two sides (at least) to every story, and if I'm fanatical or inflammatory defaming the heralded AFCK, you are equally so in defending it.

As far as starting a thread about other tacticals- look no further than this forum. Invariably, the discussion turns into a "hey I love the AFCK too, and every thing else sucks" fest. It's really kind of boring.

So, to every one who posted, thanks. I was glad to see there were a couple of people who saw my point of view. And Mr. Talmadge- I look forward to the continued feeling of self riteousness wafting off your posts.

Deal with it-
 
Sir,

I too chafed a bit at the endless kudos for the AFCK, until I got my hands on the Kevin Gentile modified AFCK. The modifications were formulated based on the training that Bob Kasper does with his Gung Ho Chuan Fa Association. I am going to posting a review and two mini-interviews in the coming week, you may wnat to check it out...

Another feature of the knife is that it makes an acceptable kubotan/yawara like tool. When closed you can use the spine of the blade to exert force on digits for the desired effect. When held in your fis the pommel can be used for strikes.

Shades- I carry left too, I like having edged tools immediately accessible by both hands, am looking forward to getting my left AFCK...

------------------
Marion David Poff fka Eye

Looking forward to the Spyderco Rolling Lock Knife and SpydeRench.

Anxiously awaiting the Benchmade Axis and Pinnacle. Will there be an AXIS AFCK??? I hope so!!!

"The victorious Warrior wins first and then goes to war, while the defeated Warrior goes to war and then seeks to win" Sun-Tzu

Please feel free to e-mail me at your discretion at: --> mdpoff@hotmail.com <--



 
Great thread, but IMHO we could have done without the personal stuff.
 
Marion,

I just received three AFCKs which Kevin Gentile modified for me. Right and left hand 800S, and an 800 which I had dulled down for a trainer. The mods are very nice. The thumb scallop is especially nice. I took the sandpaper off the clip because it kept sanding any furniture that I accidently rubbed up against. The additional grooves in the thumb ramp work very well, maybe too well. I did a strong thrust with my trainer which caused a nice tear in my thumb. I'll have to ease off next time.

The adjusted clip also makes for smoother draws and doesn't chew up my pockets as much. I also had him bead blast the blades for a lower profile look.

Axel
 
I think the AFCK is a great knife IF you like:

1. weak serrations
2. terrible opening quality
3. an unnecessarily expensive knife
4. G-10 scales that fade to gray
5. a design that rips off everyone else's
6. wobbly side-play in the blade
7. weak liner lock that overextends

Other than that, it's ok. I have two myself, and they're never touched. I can name you a half dozen knives off the top of my head within the same price range that are BETTER than the AFCK. But this forum wouldn't allow me to get away with it.

Difference is, I'm not out to change someone's mind. If you like the AFCK, buy it and use it till your heart's content. If you don't, throw them out or give them to the neighborhood boy scout. Just my 2 cents.

So start the flames now. I agree with Clip Point!
 
clip, "Jeez- it's just a hobby". Heh, lighten up man!

David, have you seen Steve Harvey's "standard AFCK treatment"? He rounds the edges throughout the handle, and makes the thumb cutout a bunch bigger. Works real nice.

Before I dropped my mini-AFCK for the Calypso Jr., I was going to cut a bit off the clip on the mini-AFCK. The clip gets in the way of thumb access on the mini.

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
 
Zaine, the forums will let you get away with it, but I don't think that the AFCK zealots will!
wink.gif


But, seriously, that sounds like a great topic for a new thread, why don't you list them? After all, that's what we are here for, knife discussion...

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Zaine- Please if you would- what knives off the top of your head would you consider superior to the AFCK?

I would say (based on my personal usage/carry)- my flawless ultra slick BM875 w/combo edge. Very nice. Or, my EDI Genesis. Now that's a tough knife. The Emerson I recently aquired is nice overall- but admittedly more than a bit clumsy for me. Enough really can't be said of the Sebenza, either.

Currently I am using the Raven- although I think it's journey in my pocket is coming to a close. I must agree that when a Benchmade is without some wierd idiosyncrasy there's nothing tougher feeling. Kind of reminds me of big V-8 muscle and Harley Davidsons.

For now, I can't wait for the Axis lock. And if you want a small, functionally light folder, look at the BM Mel Pardue 350. It's really very slick. Opens almost magically and carries well. Even I would not classify it tough like an AFCK, but cool anyway.

Anyone else?
 
*LOL*

Zaine, your post cracked me up, really.
redface.gif
How about that list of better knives, I have been looking for that list for some time now, and unable to find it.

Ps- Can I buy those crappy ole AFCKs that you have lying around? I will pay what they are worth to you
smile.gif


thaddeus
 
I have a suggestion: If you don't like the AFCK, don't buy one.

Yr Obdt Svt,
db
 
I have had a 800S, 800BT, and a 812 and while I liked them all, I gave all three away. I like the AFCK and particularly it's little brother, but I hated the length of the handle, which I feel could be significantly shorter. I probably would have liked it better had I smoothed the corners with a dremel as well.

My other big beef was with the chambfered thumb hole. I feel that it doesn't allow the purchase a regular thumbhole does.

Still, I think it is a relatively well designed knife, strong as hell with pretty good cutting ergonomics. I may get another one sometime.

Anyone have pix of one they have modified to fit the hand better that we could see on line?

Thanks,

Clay

PS Anyone else out there besides me that would like to see an AFCK with a full-flat grind? (preferably with an AXIS lock)


 
The size of the handle is my one and only big beef with the AFCK. My max comfort limit is 5" handle, and there's no reason the AFCK's <4" blade shouldn't be able to fit in a 5" handle. I know the AFCK's handle is only about 5.25", but that extra .25" bugs me, comfort-wise.

I also agree about being interested in an AFCK with a full flat grind. But much more importantly, an AFCK with an axis lock would be the ticket. Put an M-2 blade on that thing, and it would rock.

If Benchmade would be willing to grant one request from me though, I'd probably ask for an Axis as-is, except for an M-2 blade. The Axis has a better blade-to-handle ratio, and though I like the AFCK's blade better, an M-2 Axis would definitely float my boat.

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
 
I'm rather looking forward to your list too, Zaine! I can think of a handful of production knives that I consider to be at AFCKish quality. However, "within the same price range that are BETTER than the AFCK"? Considering 30% to be within the same price range (or even 50%), we have to drop the Emerson line, Microtech line, and the Sebenza, the least expensive of which is more than double the AFCK price. I can only think of two production knives in the same price range at remotely AFCK quality, off the top of my head.

But, to keep the ball rolling:

> 1. weak serrations

I must admit, I'm not a serration fan; I believe someone who picks the right sharpening strategy can get a plain edge to perform like a serration, no prob. So this is a don't-care for me personally. But my experience is Benchmade type serrations are stronger but less aggressive than Spyderco type. It's a tradeoff, I realize.

> 2. terrible opening quality

Here is where I wonder if we're living in parallel universes. I've handled dozens of AFCKs at shows, universally their action is incredibly good. EDI has the edge in this regard, but I'd rate AFCK opening action as "excellent" at WORST!

> 3. an unnecessarily expensive knife

$80 at discount for this kind of quality is unnecessarily expensive? Not to mention that cutting-wise, it'll outperform most all "tactical" folders, including many customs.

> 4. G-10 scales that fade to gray

This I haven't seen. How long did it take for yours to fade? My 2-3 year old miniAFCK hasn't faded, nor has my 8 month old AFCK.

> 5. a design that rips off everyone else's

Well, if the package works at a great price, I don't much care about this. Even so, I'm not sure it's true. Any knife with a Spyderco hole will look superficially like a Spyderco. But the blade shape is different from Spyderco's, the grind is different, and the inclusion of the forward rake is fairly unique. The handle is different, and exceptionally ergonomic. And I *think* the AFCK and 970 were the first production folders with g-10 scales + titanium liners. When you say "everyone", did you mean other production companies, or custom makers, or what? Let's look at this again in the context of the list of knives you give.

> 6. wobbly side-play in the blade

In yours, do you mean? I have read about this problem from time to time in the Benchmade Forum, so I know it happens occasionally, but I've not really seen it myself with AFCKs I've played with at shows. When it does occur, Benchmade seems to be reasonably responsive at fixing it.

> 7. weak liner lock that overextends

Okay, you know me, I'm carrying on a one-man campaign against liner locks. Far be it from me to defend a liner lock. However, the AFCK has one of the *most* reliable liner locks in my collection. When I play with knives at shows, I can often pop liner locks just with hand pressure, but normally not with the AFCK. I've always considered the AFCK one of the exceptions that proves the rule about liner lock problems. Have you really been popping your lock, and how many samples of this have you seen?


Joe
jat@cup.hp.com

[This message has been edited by Joe Talmadge (edited 17 November 1998).]
 
Does anyone have any kind of hard data as to when to expect the Axis lock? I'm anxious to have one, as I am sure a lot of you are, too.

According to Benchmade "late fall" is the expected shipping date. Anyone know what this means exactly? Or how about some high res. pics? It's kind of hard to get a good look at the pics on their site.

I am intrigued by the Kershaw Random Task for it's interesting method of blade deployment, but I'm afraid it's more gimmicky than anything else. Anyone have one yet?

Next to the obvious- what are all of your second picks for favorite Benchmade? I'm curious to see which one takes a backseat behind the popular AFCK. Oh yeah, I was thinking about picking up a mini Stryker (not sure if I like the large one) any thoughts on this one?

Thanks-
 
Zaine, I too can't wait for that list of better folder for under $80, as I got my AFCK for just under $80 postpaid.
 
EDI Genesis kicks BM AFCK's a%$ good for just a few dollars more. At the very least it looks better. Not that asthetics matter too much but why not. Remember the Edzel?
Sebenza is great but whew the dough they want for it. I think BM needs to tighten up a little. Joe, I agree about most liner-locks, but that's mostly because they skimp on quality. 'Course you know that. Otherwise there is no reason that liner-locks arent' good ideas.

Just to answer the secondary question, I carry a Spydie Police, full serrated, steel handle. Talk about an intimidating blade for utility use.

[This message has been edited by Highdlr (edited 18 November 1998).]
 
C.P. and Zaine,

After you've been reading knife forums for awhile the thing that really gets boring is posters who post a troll literally begging for people to tell you what they like about the AFCK, and then pour scorn on them when they do.

These trolls invariably contain no content themselves, and this is true here also. Why not tell us in concrete terms what it is about the Raven that makes it better than the AFCK in your opinion?

Sure there are a lot of other great knives. Lets see, there is the SOCOM, Sebenza, Spyderco Military, Spyderco Wegner, and on and on. In some respects, all of them could be said to be better than the AFCK, and the AFCK could be argued to be better in others. The challenge remains for anyone to persuasively argue that any of them are a better value for the price than the AFCK, personal taste notwithstanding.

Don't deride others for liking a great knife, and don't accuse them of bigotry before the fact. That is being silly and unfair, respectively.

[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 18 November 1998).]
 
Highdlr,
Shame on me, but I just have to ask: have you owned or used either the Genesis or the AFCK?

By the way, somebody inquired earlier about the origin of the AFCK design. The AFCK was created by Mark McWillis, formerly of Benchmade knives, as a direct evolution of the Spyderco Police. Mark liked the Police but wanted a knife with more belly in the edge profile, to make it a better hunting knife, and a stonger tip. He came up with a concept and ran it by Chris Caracci who made some suggestions, some of which were incorporated into the final design.

As far as liner locks go, I have seen so many poorly functioning Walker locks on $400 hand-made knives at shows that it seems price is no indicator of functional precision.



------------------
Harv
 
Axel, the Hi-Speeds are nice, aren't they.

Joe, no, I haven't seen Harv's modifications, am interested though.

I spoke to a Dave at Benchmade yesterday, and he said the Axis and Pinnacle were going to ship out the second week of December.

Zaine, if you and Thad can't come to a deal, give me a try at paying you what they are worth to you. And I am anxiously waiting the TOP SIX THAT BEAT THE AFCK in the same price range...

Highdlr said
EDI Genesis kicks BM AFCK's a%$ good for just a few dollars more.
Click to expand...
Sir, have you held the Genesis? No offense to EDI, but the thumb stud recess eats your index finger, and the lock is very susceptible to accidental opening.

------------------
Marion David Poff fka Eye mdpoff@hotmail.com

Patiently waiting for the Spyderco SpydeRench, Lum Chinese Chopper Folder, Rolling Lock, Benchmade M2 Axis (and M2 Axis AFCK), M2 Pinnacle and the REKAT NEW KNIVES.

"The victorious Warrior wins first and then goes to war, while the defeated Warrior goes to war and then seeks to win" Sun-Tzu









 
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