Aggressive dogs outdoors

Probably not going to be a popular post but if I feel threatened by a unleashed dog (teeth showing and growling), I will react first to prevent an attack on me. I refuse to be threatened and held "hostage" until the owner barks a command at the animal.
If he bites me, he's toast.

I've had several bad experiences with unleashed dogs, one resulting in a very bad day for the dog.

I don't want my crotch sniffed, I don't want to be jumped on and certainly don't want my little bubble of space invaded.
 
been around dogs since I was 1. I love them so much, i hate seeing them get hurt.

Right now got a shelter rott/dober mix - too friendly with everyone (even the mailwoman). He is scary looking - he walks like a feline...I really don't know why he prowls. Been playing with cats when he was a stray perhaps? He's useless as a "guard" dog, but that's the way I like 'em. I protect the dogs...not the other way around.

Anyways, I have been bitten by a pit bull while walking on the street. Some owner had left their dog outside in their open front yard. Luckily I had several layers on so he never broke skin. Loud shouting, rapping on his nose, dragging him 10 feet...nothing. Finally, I had to resort to slapping him in he eyes. He lets go and then comes back, so I stomped on his poor paws (my 200 lbs ain't pleasant) which gets him limping off.

If you got a stick or club handy - hit them in the legs and aim to break (don't target the head). If they've latch on to you - target their eyes. 1v1 against small and medium breeds are no contest. For the big dogs...go all out. Hate seeing them get hurt but if they seriously injure a person - they'll get put down anyways.
 
I think it is ironic sometimes to look at bite statistics- the most publicized attacks come from the breeds we all picture- Rott, Pit, GS, Doberman- because their attacks cause the most danger... but most insurance statisctics point to most bites coming from Golden Retreivers, Chows....

I like seeing dogs on trail, I saw one recently with a pack carrying mostly its own food and a water bowl- pretty cool. Most trail dogs I see either ignore me, or give me a glance and a wag. Some want a sniff as they pass and I just gently move my hiking stick to block their way. Recently had two off leash give me a good warning barking and defensive stance as a lady and her son came up trail. I just stepped off trail and kept stick tip down but between me and them until the folks got hold of their dogs. The lady apologized and I just remarked that the dogs were protecting her as natural but she might want a leash next time.

If I stop to chat with folks I often ask if I can pet the dog- always ask before reaching down! LOL! I grew up on farms, animals are not that difficult to understand but many owners forget the step of socialization- many owners are not well socialized either. It is important to recognize hunting or attack behavior though.

If strange dogs come into my yard, they get challenged, how they are treated depends on the response to my challenging approach. Some end up with me sitting down and petting them as reward for their good response. Some others run like hell, depending on their response. I was recently working under my car and hear someone calling "Bella..." hmmm not a name you hear alot. Then I felt something breath on the back of my head, I turend my head slowly and got licked on the cheek! :) Some sort of terrier by the look of her. When the owner walked up to apologize, Bella and I were sitting on the drive and me scratching her ears. Bella is welcome in my yard anytime and the owner knows it.
Bill
 
lmalterna said:
I think it is ironic sometimes to look at bite statistics- the most publicized attacks come from the breeds we all picture- Rott, Pit, GS, Doberman- because their attacks cause the most danger... but most insurance statisctics point to most bites coming from Golden Retreivers, Chows....

I like seeing dogs on trail, I saw one recently with a pack carrying mostly its own food and a water bowl- pretty cool. Most trail dogs I see either ignore me, or give me a glance and a wag. Some want a sniff as they pass and I just gently move my hiking stick to block their way. Recently had two off leash give me a good warning barking and defensive stance as a lady and her son came up trail. I just stepped off trail and kept stick tip down but between me and them until the folks got hold of their dogs. The lady apologized and I just remarked that the dogs were protecting her as natural but she might want a leash next time.

If I stop to chat with folks I often ask if I can pet the dog- always ask before reaching down! LOL! I grew up on farms, animals are not that difficult to understand but many owners forget the step of socialization- many owners are not well socialized either. It is important to recognize hunting or attack behavior though.

If strange dogs come into my yard, they get challenged, how they are treated depends on the response to my challenging approach. Some end up with me sitting down and petting them as reward for their good response. Some others run like hell, depending on their response. I was recently working under my car and hear someone calling "Bella..." hmmm not a name you hear alot. Then I felt something breath on the back of my head, I turend my head slowly and got licked on the cheek! :) Some sort of terrier by the look of her. When the owner walked up to apologize, Bella and I were sitting on the drive and me scratching her ears. Bella is welcome in my yard anytime and the owner knows it.
Bill
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Some great info there, you have a very sensible approach....good stuff !:thumbup:
 
As has been said several times here and many times elsewhere, owners are responsible for their dogs and their dogs' actions. Blaming the person who was bitten for causing the dog to bite them is a bit lame, IMHO. If a person owns a dog that will not answer a recall command instantly and 100% of the time, they had best keep it on a leash, lead or check cord when in public places. Not only does it allow them to be in constant control of the animal, but it tells both the animal and other people that you are in control.

There are many people who are deathly, irrationally afraid of dogs just as there are people who have the same fears of mice, spiders or snakes. For the most part, they are unfamiliar with dogs and have no way of interpreting their temperment or intent. But it is not their responsibilty to have to do so. It is for the dog owner to control each and every interaction between their pets and other dogs and humans.

And there are people who fear dogs for a good reason such as prior experience of being bitten or, as Essav illustrated, fear of being injured by even an exhuberant yet well-meaning dog. Public spaces are to be shared by all and the dog owner has the responsibility of assuring other people that their dog cannot injure them. The owners' knowledge and confidence that the dog will not isn't sufficient. Other people do not know their dog and share their confidence that the unknown dog will not attack them or even playfully jump up on them. Their right to feel safe in public places outweighs a dog owner's desire to let their dog range outside of their immediate control.

These are issues that I have to consider day in and day out as my service dog and I spend more time in public than most owners of pets do with their dogs. People are as different as dogs in their experiences and temperments. Most of the time, within appropriate limits, the rights of the dog owner and his dog must yield to the rights of other people when the two conflict. "He deserved it" doesn't fly when a person is bitten by an uncontrolled dog.

The public's safety should not be dependent upon their reaction to someone else's uncontrolled dog. If a person knows that their dog is agressive, under normal or special circumstances, they have a responsibility to see to it that it is not possible for their dog to injure others. On this responsible dog owners, professional trainers, vets, laws and courts agree.
 
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Great thread questions. As a stout lover of dogs, I wish they imposed a ban, or enacted a law to beat the teeth out of stupid owners. Not the dog's fault.
After all the warning signs (ears pushed back, weight shifted forward) are there and the dog is in an offensive threatening mode: With dogs that initiate a threat, I tend to stare them down and keep walking forward, if it seems like they are the type that would chase me. (This may be a dumb approach, all you Dog psychologists out there), but it tends to work for even the bravest dogs (that aren't police dogs of course). I've had devil pitbulls chase me on my bike, and I pull over, get off my bike, and chase them back. They don't know what to do and usually get out of dodge. They don't like erratic behavior I've come to find out. Being surrounded by five, would be a different approach I guess. I would look for the alpha, scoop up my dog, and chase it yelling deeply and menacingly. That would be an interesting thing to mull over.

When breaking up a dog fight or engaging in a biting dog (I used to foster care for dogs, and work with them, but once again, I'm no expert), I follow a few rules.
1. Keep my hands in a fist. It seems all the injuries I've seen have bad stuff done to digits. A fist would at least protect them some.
2. If a dog is a jumper, it gets my well timed knee.
That of course isn't the end all, and has pissed a few neighbors off, but like I said this is just my private experiences.
 
oh, and upnorth, fantastic signature by the way!
 
Codger,
"assuring other people that their dog cannot injure them. The owners' knowledge and confidence that the dog will not isn't sufficient. Other people do not know their dog and share their confidence that the unknown dog will not attack them or even playfully jump up on them." This is an EXCELLENT point. I am human but I cannot predict the actions or reactions of another human with certainty. So how can we be 100% sure how an animal will respond? a Snake may only bite because it was stepped on, to the person it was an accident, to the snake it was an attempt to kill it- in the end, the person will suffer the venom and the snake will suffer the crushing. The person will forever hates snakes.

My wife is Filipina, there she was faced with many ascal- or streedogs, totally uncontrolled. She never had a pet and knows dogs only to be unpredictable and sometimes aggressive.

Joe, that is exactly how I challenge a dog in my yard. Dogs are territorial and it knows that the yard is not its. So I let it know it is MINE by walk dead at it and staring it down. Most will drop their ears and tail. At that, I speak warmly and smoothly and offer my hand(still at a little distance)- most will then either walk away or come to me to be rewarded. Those that go alert and stiff and come forward will get me charging hard and going for legs, they do not like being rolled.

Bill
 
lmalterna said:
Codger,
"assuring other people that their dog cannot injure them. The owners' knowledge and confidence that the dog will not isn't sufficient. Other people do not know their dog and share their confidence that the unknown dog will not attack them or even playfully jump up on them." This is an EXCELLENT point. I am human but I cannot predict the actions or reactions of another human with certainty. So how can we be 100% sure how an animal will respond? a Snake may only bite because it was stepped on, to the person it was an accident, to the snake it was an attempt to kill it- in the end, the person will suffer the venom and the snake will suffer the crushing. The person will forever hates snakes.

My wife is Filipina, there she was faced with many ascal- or streedogs, totally uncontrolled. She never had a pet and knows dogs only to be unpredictable and sometimes aggressive.

Joe, that is exactly how I challenge a dog in my yard. Dogs are territorial and it knows that the yard is not its. So I let it know it is MINE by walk dead at it and staring it down. Most will drop their ears and tail. At that, I speak warmly and smoothly and offer my hand(still at a little distance)- most will then either walk away or come to me to be rewarded. Those that go alert and stiff and come forward will get me charging hard and going for legs, they do not like being rolled.

Bill
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A little bit of dog psychology goes a long way in either training your own dog or dealing with an unknown dog. A lot of people have been hurt by overly agressive dogs because they fled from them. To a dog, this is prey behavior. In all cases, you want to present alpha behavior. To let the dog know that you are the leader of the pack and they had better not challenge your status. This does not mean that you cannot be friendly to a friendly dog. Or have to be overly agressive to an agressive dog (meet force with force as is needed to end overt agression or an actual attack). Non-dog people seldom know or understand these things.

By the way, my work puts me in contact with many dogs, almost always in their own territory, the homeowner's yard. A lot of dogs have challenged me, but the only one to actually get me it's jaws was a small poodle with teeth like needles. The sneaky bastid did not display any sign of agression before the attack. I am not an advocate of cruelty to animals, but had the homeowner/customer not snared "precious" as quickly as she did, I would have administered a well placed kick. Homeowner now knows to keep "precious" put up when I come to do service calls.
 
Some years ago, USPS came up with a dog control program: the dogbrella. Each letter carrier would be issued a small folding umbrella. If attacked, open the umbrella and flap it wildly at the dog. Hey, if you were a dog and a gigantic rabid bat came flying at you, what would you do? :)

One miserable rainy night I was walking home from work through Central Park. A Doberman came out of the dark at me, snarling and snapping. I already had my umbrella up, so I lowered it and flapped it at her. The dog took off!

Two men came strolling along afer her, missed the whole scene. I cursed them out as I stomped off home :D
 
Cool! I am reminded of a movie (The Gods Must Be Crazy?) shot in Africa where a child was taught to appear large if stalked by a dingo, and held a large piece of bark over his head. It worked in the movie anyway. :)

There are a lot of ways to deter a dog without them or yourself being injured. They are generally afraid of loud noises like an air horn or a stern commanding voice ("sit" or NO" works on many if they have any training at all). They don't know "tools" or "sharp", but they do know that humans are tool users. A stick can be just as frightening to a dog as a knife. They don't like their eyes or nose messed with. A big handfull of small gravel or sand can make them turn away as they will seldom face a enemy or prey with their eyes closed. A stiff conk on the nose will turn most of them. Pepper spray does too but I wouldn't use it as a first defense. YMMV.
 
I always try to have dog biscuits and a walking stick. If the left one don't get you, then the right one will.
 
pitdog said:
That sucks buddy, I've had the odd hike spoiled by such encounters also. I think it was around a year back that I had gone off trail to avoid an encounter with a guy and his pack of scary looking dogs. When I was well off trail I realised that one of the bigger dogs had followed me and was snarling at my Bull terrier who was stood by me cowering, I drew my knife and was quite prepared to fight the dog should it have gone for me or my dogs, the owner was nowhere to be seen. Fortunately the dog thought better of it and left us be.
Click to expand...

good cuts around the neck to bleed the dog out might be the only chance with a larger dog. might have to sacrifice your weak arm but it could save your life
 
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Esav Benyamin said:
Some years ago, USPS came up with a dog control program: the dogbrella. Each letter carrier would be issued a small folding umbrella. If attacked, open the umbrella and flap it wildly at the dog. Hey, if you were a dog and a gigantic rabid bat came flying at you, what would you do? :)

One miserable rainy night I was walking home from work through Central Park. A Doberman came out of the dark at me, snarling and snapping. I already had my umbrella up, so I lowered it and flapped it at her. The dog took off!

Two men came strolling along afer her, missed the whole scene. I cursed them out as I stomped off home :D
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tried this once when a neighbor was being attacked by two pitbulls. was about 5:30am and his cane was taping as he walked. seems like they were attacking the cane. i went up to him and pushed the button on my umbrella. it opened in the faces of the dogs and they instantly attacked it and tore it up. luckily the owner walked past about a block away and whistled. the dogs took off after him. now i carry mace and a knife
 
lmalterna said:
I think it is ironic sometimes to look at bite statistics- the most publicized attacks come from the breeds we all picture- Rott, Pit, GS, Doberman- because their attacks cause the most danger... but most insurance statisctics point to most bites coming from Golden Retreivers, Chows....

I like seeing dogs on trail, I saw one recently with a pack carrying mostly its own food and a water bowl- pretty cool. Most trail dogs I see either ignore me, or give me a glance and a wag. Some want a sniff as they pass and I just gently move my hiking stick to block their way. Recently had two off leash give me a good warning barking and defensive stance as a lady and her son came up trail. I just stepped off trail and kept stick tip down but between me and them until the folks got hold of their dogs. The lady apologized and I just remarked that the dogs were protecting her as natural but she might want a leash next time.

If I stop to chat with folks I often ask if I can pet the dog- always ask before reaching down! LOL! I grew up on farms, animals are not that difficult to understand but many owners forget the step of socialization- many owners are not well socialized either. It is important to recognize hunting or attack behavior though.

If strange dogs come into my yard, they get challenged, how they are treated depends on the response to my challenging approach. Some end up with me sitting down and petting them as reward for their good response. Some others run like hell, depending on their response. I was recently working under my car and hear someone calling "Bella..." hmmm not a name you hear alot. Then I felt something breath on the back of my head, I turend my head slowly and got licked on the cheek! :) Some sort of terrier by the look of her. When the owner walked up to apologize, Bella and I were sitting on the drive and me scratching her ears. Bella is welcome in my yard anytime and the owner knows it.
Bill
Click to expand...

This is likely the kind of approach\mentality most of us have for mans best friend. Likely also why I didn't expect to be surrounded by a pack of dogs loosing it. I went out this morning and knocked down a walking stick. Considering how my left knee felt this morning after a whoop- de- do on some hidden ice, I likely need it all the more for myself than aberrant pet owners.

Bambie was doing the drunken sailor also.
IMG_4171.jpg

IMG_4170.jpg

Rabbit girdling
IMG_4169.jpg

The Parang performed well on thicker stuff, which is why I bought it.
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Those beavers can take down telephone pole sized trees, amazing !
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The stick has a few kinks and turns but it feels good, natural. And I suppose that it's also a metaphor for lifes path at times. :)
 
Pepper spray would have been a good idea. Use it on the owner of the dogs.
 
Joezilla said:
Great thread questions. As a stout lover of dogs, I wish they imposed a ban, or enacted a law to beat the teeth out of stupid owners. Not the dog's fault.
After all the warning signs (ears pushed back, weight shifted forward) are there and the dog is in an offensive threatening mode: With dogs that initiate a threat, I tend to stare them down and keep walking forward, if it seems like they are the type that would chase me. (This may be a dumb approach, all you Dog psychologists out there), but it tends to work for even the bravest dogs (that aren't police dogs of course). I've had devil pitbulls chase me on my bike, and I pull over, get off my bike, and chase them back. They don't know what to do and usually get out of dodge. They don't like erratic behavior I've come to find out. Being surrounded by five, would be a different approach I guess. I would look for the alpha, scoop up my dog, and chase it yelling deeply and menacingly. That would be an interesting thing to mull over.

When breaking up a dog fight or engaging in a biting dog (I used to foster care for dogs, and work with them, but once again, I'm no expert), I follow a few rules.
1. Keep my hands in a fist. It seems all the injuries I've seen have bad stuff done to digits. A fist would at least protect them some.
2. If a dog is a jumper, it gets my well timed knee.
That of course isn't the end all, and has pissed a few neighbors off, but like I said this is just my private experiences.
Click to expand...

First of all, I like dogs and always had them as a kid, but have never owned one as an adult because I don't want the responsibility (and they poop big). When I was in my teens and early 20s I read water meters and had plenty of iffy dog encounters. I agree, in my experience taking an aggressive stance and moving towards the dog will likely back it down immediately. I've even run at multiple dogs and watched them scatter. The scary close encounters always happened when I didn't see the dog until I was right on it, or when I had to restrain myself because the owner was nearby. On one occasion I had to jump off a customers deck (about an 8 foot drop...I was younger and less breakable) because I was going up to the front door on a customer service call and didn't see the dog under a picnic table. A flash of teeth, eyes and slobber, and I was over the deck rail. My brother, who also read meters and knew how to react to dogs, was bitten by a pit because the owner was standing nearby and saying "don't worry, he doesn't bite".

On the trail I have mixed feelings. I've never had a dog go after me in that situation, but I have had dogs run past and around me with the owner not visible in the immediate area (letting the dogs run ahead) and I'm not a fan if this behavior. I prefer to see them leashed or unleashed and kept close to the owner. A strange unattended dog that runs up to me on a trail won't be treated like a pet.
 
1: shoot the dog. cut it's tail, the strip of skin down it's back and scalp all off in one piece.

2: take that piece of dogskin to my local council.

3: claim AUD$100/dog bounty.

4: Profit!
 
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