Airplane Legal?

[Gollnick]

why don't folks do all there personal grooming before they leave home for the airport?

I don't carry my shaving kit with idea that I'm going to bath in the airplane lavatory. I carry it because if the airline looses my bag, I can always wear the cloths I have on for another day. But I will need a razor, toothbrush, my favorite shampoo, etc. So, never be separated from your shaving kit.

Very often, if I have a flight out first thing in the morning, I'll skip shaving and then shave in the airport restroom once I'm all checked in and everything. They want you there two hours early these days, I might as well do something while I'm waiting.

And international flights are often overnight. When you arrive, it's nice to be able to shave and comb your hair immediately.



Besides, if terrorists trying to take over the plane kill the pilots and are only foiled by my single-handed resistance using nothing more than meal trays and magazines, then I land the plane safely saving the lives of hundres on board and preventing another terror attack, you know that there's gonna be reporters there waiting to take my picture. So, I'll want to freshen up a bit before stepping off the plane.

 

[blastjv]

I have a big problem with the kind of reasoning behind these policies. They are said to make 'everyone safer', when all they do is make stupid people FEEL safer, intelligent people feel LESS safe, and criminals invent other ways to harm others.

Brownie, I'm not taking exception with you, but with ideas such as, "...for the benefit of the whole communities safety while on planes..." It is a very common idea, and the problem is this:

Whether or not I have a knife in my pocket does NOTHING to ACTUALLY make anyone less safe. This kind of logic may be applied to items like firearms or anything that even a well-intentioned person could destroy a plane with accidentally, because taking an item like that on the plane actually DOES create a threat to other passengers, but not to items like knives and nail clippers.

The fact is; a law abiding person with a knife does a great deal to INCREASE the reletive safety of innocents with him on a plane by providing a measure of security in the event of an attempted hijacking.

I DO agree with Brownie on the point that the airline is a private organization and as such has the right to dictate the rules while using their service. It is similar to telling someone that they can come into your house, but that they can't bring any weapons inside. The airlines also have the right to make these stipulations.

Where the line starts to blur (I've only just begun thinking about this, so bear with me) is that now that the airport security is 'federalized', have they gone from a private security organization acting within it's rights on behalf of the airline to a law enforcement agency performing illegal searches and seizures? It seems like they have...

Sorry, ya'll done got me started...

-John

 

[blastjv]

ALSO, I just began to read that TSA thing, and apparantly you do NOT have a choice as other were saying earlier about Forfeiting your 'weapon' and getting on the plane or leaving and not using the plane. The TSA is pretty clear: "Bringing a prohibited item to a security checkpoint-even accidentally-is illegal."

 

[ar15man]

I do feel that the ban on guns and knives is a good idea (it makes people feel safer) but that is where it should end.

So you think baning guns and knives is a good thing? Wow, I hope you are kidding.

 

[blastjv]

That one kinda' made my skin crawl, too.

MY RIGHTS DO NOT HINGE UPON OTHER PEOPLE'S 'FEELINGS'!!!!!

(I understand that 'rights' are not as clear an issue with regard to airline security, as I stated earlier, but I am simply reacting to the whole 'make people feel better' mentality)

-John

PS - I think we've pretty well dragged this one into whine and cheese territory!

 

[black mariah]

He was referring to banning guns and knives on AIRPLANES. Pay attention to the topic.

 

[VampyreWolf]

I've flown once post-911, on a commercial flight(I've been up a number of times post 911, but most were 2 ppl flights with cadets)... Aug 18, 02... got through with my spydie card, zippo, minimag, and cellphone. they pulled the zippo fluid from my briefcase that I forgot about(about 1/2 can. Had my stuff packed for a few days before and was running from a backpack and the breifcase(which was the carry on, and contained shaving kit and alarm clock along with books and such)...

now, the way society has diminished to stripping folks near naked to fly, I'll just toss a bottle of KY and a pair of latex gloves in there, make it easy on both of us, because by the time I fly again that's what it'll come down to. Last I checked knitting needles were legal, guess I'm taking up knitting.

I'll be driving anywhere I need to go in the near future.

 

[blastjv]

Black Mariah,

I think if you had read all the previous post in this thread you would see that everyone seems to be paying VERY careful attention to the topic. If you can't be troubled with reading all the posts then please don't criticize others who can.

VampyreWolf,

I've done my fair share (alright, MORE than my fair share) of dumb things in my time, but WHY would you take a Spydercard on a Plane in this day and age???!!!???

Again, I agree that you should be able to, but you're just begging to get locked up and made an example of, trying to pull that kind of thing. I'm sure with a set of nail clippers you could claim, "Oh, I must have forgotten to take that out of my travel bag.", but with a Spydercard, I'd be suprised if you werent' charged with anything if you were caught.

-John

 

[VampyreWolf]

blastjv> didn't even think about it until I was about to board the plane and got the ticket from my wallet, noticed it was still on the heavy side. didn't say anything to my buddy until we landed and were clear of the airport. had it in the wallet from my purchase back the end of june 02, only had it put aside a couple times since, other than changing wallets for a night.

 

[blastjv]

Just struck a chord is all. I carry a 1SKS Titanium Card in my wallet and I always worry about forgetting to take it out when I'm going somewhere I know I shouldn't carry it.

I ain't tryin' to go to no Jail!!!

-John

 

[VampyreWolf]

it's funny, it went through the scanner, along with my light, zippo and cell... and the briefcase right behind the basket. They asked me when the stuff came through to cycle the stuff through so they could see the other 3 were real(and pop the zippo case open to look inside)... and then asked me to open the breifcase for them. the guy just grabbed the zippo fluid out, said "you can't take this on, would you like to surrender it or ship it on?", I just surrendered it(1/2 can, what? $3cdn?).

no problems with my steel toed boots or military dress belt(I have 4 from cadets, soon to be 3, heavy nylon with a brass sliding buckle)... though I had to think when it beeped on my right breast pocket, ends up I forgot about the dristan tabs in the foil packaging.

I've carried a knife nearly everyday since my 5th bday, 14yrs now. had to go knifeless for 2 weeks in feb 03 with a cadet trip(really close quarters so I couldn't play after lights out)... even last summer(june 28th-aug 18th 02) I wasn't supposed to have anything with me. they grabbed my catalogues, dealer and sharpening vid, and stone... and missed the 2 toys on my keys(which I set on the table after taking a lock off my bag... buck minitool and swisstech utilikey)). I still had 4 toys with me last summer and used them every day, without sharpening at all.
even in school, every day I had at least 1 on me, and my multi.

 

[blastjv]

I worked airport security for a period of around 1 month in 1998. The old guys that worked the Metal detector showed me how they tested it every morning:

One of them would walk through it with a steel mock-up of a small revolver five times. If the scanner detected it at least three times, they considered it to be working!!!

Makes you wonder, and worry...

-John

 

[ar15man]

Hey Black Mariah, perhaps I am misreading K man's post, but I don't see any mention of banning guns and knives just on airplanes. If he means just on airplanes than I have no problem with that. However, when I hear people talk about banning guns and knives etc., I have a big problem with that. Since he wrote the post, let's let him decide what he meant. I will tell you that I have read the entire thread and am I am indeed paying attention, but thanks for your concern.

 

[K man]

ar15man- I did mean on airplanes and airplanes only. Sorry about the confusion, I thought that it was fairly evident that I was talking about airplanes.

Antigun and knife legislation really ticks me off. But an airplane is one place where weapons should be prohibited.

 

[ar15man]

Good deal K man. I think the one thing that is clear is that many people are thinking about the issue of seld-defense on an airplane, although the original post was about tools to clean one's finger nails and open blister packs . It's also clear that some of us are pretty passionate about our views, that's a good thing.

 

[blastjv]

I submit that perhaps there would be a lesser threat of terrorist violence aboard airplanes if EVERYONE was given a large Bowie knife when boarding the airplane.

I DO NOT agree that knives should be banned aboard airplanes or anywhere for that matter (with extreme exceptions such as prisons)!!!

I see the logic that in such close quarters and at such altitudes firearms would be ill advised, but even the old 'depressurizing the cabin' argument has been proven false.

I hope you don't disagree that Pilots should be (and ARE) allowed firearms on planes?

I do not trust others with my safety, I prefer to handle that myself, thank you.

-John

 

[Knife11]

I agree with Blastjv somewhat...giving every one a kniv=fe increases the possiblity of haveing a incident I think but it also in sure a quick end to it. Someone else said that having a few of us good knife people on board would acutally make planes safer and i agree with that as well...

My finally point is about 9-11, you have to remember that pre 9-11 no one thought that hijacked planes where to be used as weapons against the US so the fact that they had razor knives didn't make any difference since no one felt in danger. To further my point when you hear about the plane that went down in Penn. It was because the unarmed passengers fought with the guys armed with the razor knives. The point here is that knives or no knives the same thing would have happened since no one was trying to resist the teroist, and in the example where we did resist it didn't matter that they had knives.

 

[Gollnick]

even the old 'depressurizing the cabin' argument has been proven false.

The fear is that a gun shot through the hull will cause the cabin to depressurize and we'll all be sucked out through the hole while the plane pluges uncontrollably to the ground, right?

Wrong.

The hull is not made of a seamless single piece of metal. It's made of metal sheets that are tightly rivited together. But, those seams are not air-tight, even when the plane is brand new. And, as the plane ages, those joints become looser and looser with each bumpy landing, each bit of turbulance, etc. In fact, the planes that we fly on are typically missing at least a few of their rivits.

Ever let the water out of the sink in an airplane lavatory? That sucking effect is due to the fact that the holding tanks are not pressurized. So, when you open the lavatory sink, you're essentually opening a hole to the outside of the plane. That hole is, what?, maybe an inch in diameter. And yet you're not sucked down it and the plane does not crash. Many airplanes have four or even eight lavatories and the designers have to allow for all of them to be drained at once.

The doors never close prefectly and seals on them wear too. Emergency exit windows are much the same. On my last flight, I sat in the exit row (usually a very nice experience) but as we waited in the pouring rain for our turn to take off, water dripped down on my leaking in through the emergency exit door seal. If water can drip in, the some air will leak out.

The pressurizing equipment on a commercial airplane will keep the plane pressurized properly even if the seams are leaking a bit, even if multiple rivits are missing, even if the doors and emergency exit windows don't seal perfectly, even if all of the lavatory sinks are drained at once.

A .50 caliber bullet hole isn't gonna phase it.

In fact, there's a guage up in the cockpit where the pilot can read how hard the presurizing equipment is working. If gets to going to hard, then he reports that to the maintenace people and they check for leaking seams, door or emergency exit seals, check the seams, and patrol for missing rivits. It's routine.

 

[Murnax]

Banning guns/knives on planes or anywhere is just plain wrong. It sort of troubles me when I see people who are otherwise against gun/knife control laws, but have no problem with airplanes being gun/knife free. This means you've just become used to the stupid laws being there. The ILLUSION of safety is NOT safety. Each person should be responsible for their own safety, and laws that hinder a person's ability to do so are wrong.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

We, most of us on Bladeforums, have spent the greater part of our lives thinking in terms of being prepared, taking care of business, doing things for ourselves and looking out for others. Very much including security.

This doesn't mean pulling a knife on every loudmouth on the subway or opening blister packs on an airplane with a Bowie. But it does confuse us to be stripped of our equipment.

I'm diabetic. On a long airplane ride, I can't test my blood glucose level or even tell how low I may be getting just sitting there. In case I do feel off, I carry sugar tablets in ... a blister pack.

I also need to inject insulin once a day. That can wait till I get to where I'm going, but I can't carry syringes on board, can I? So they go in my UNLOCKED checked baggage. I hope I don't find the plastic packs unsealed, because I won't be able to get myself to use them.

No, it won't happen. But I worry. I worry because I can't look out for myself, and the people who are looking out for me do not inspire confidence. The programs under which they work are one part security to one part propaganda. They are for the benefit of that majority of our fellow citizens who feel the government will look out for them.

Good luck.